in Pitt Football 1,042 Words

WBB’s View of College FB & BB

College Football vs College Basketball

As you are well aware, college basketball has had a Final Four for decades since 1939.  College football finally followed and started a final four (Semifinals) format in 2014.

Here are just some of the basketball Final Four participants over the past decade:  Butler (2), VCU, Wichita State, Gonzaga, South Carolina, Oregon, Loyola-Chicago, Texas Tech. 

Here are all of the football Final Four participants since 2014:  Alabama (6), Clemson (6), Ohio State (4), Oklahoma (4), Notre Dame (2), Georgia, LSU, Florida State, Oregon, Michigan State

I believe you know where I am going with this article.  The interesting part of this is that the basketball Final four participants qualified for the Semifinals after winning four NCAA tourney games.   On the other hand, football teams like Notre Dame (2018), Michigan St (2016), Florida St (2014) and even Oklahoma (2019) and Ohio St (2016) looked like they didn’t even belong in the football Semifinals based on the way they performed.

There is no question that college football has become an elitist enterprise.   Note that of the names listed above of recent participants, Florida State and Michigan State no longer are considered a threat to crack the final four playoff teams.   On the other hand, Gonzaga and Baylor are currently ranked #1 and #2 in college basketball while blue bloods Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Michigan State and Kansas are unranked.  This would never happen in football.

I believe the reason for this is that college players cannot be drafted into the NFL until three years after leaving high school whereas they can be drafted into the NBA after just one year.  Thus, most of the basketball blue bloods have to restock year after year. 

Football programs like Alabama, Ohio State and Clemson continue to amass the best football talent around year after year.   And since these players are around for a minimum of three years, the rich are only getting richer exponentially… so the chasm between the Haves and the Have Nots just continues to widen.  Yes, the transfer portal has become popular in college sports, but it seems that best talent available are just traded among the elites.  Ohio St QB Justin Fields began at Georgia, QB Jalen Hurts moved from Alabama to Oklahoma, and Joe Burrows went from Ohio St to LSU.   In fact, three of the last four Heisman winners are QB transfers …. and the fourth (this year’s winner) is a three-year WR at Alabama.

And what is even more puzzling is how schools like Michigan, Miami, USC and Texas can continue to recruit so well but seems to be on the outside looking in.  Michigan just had two more four-star QBs transfer out of its program, the 7th and 8th in the Harbaugh era.   And in this era where offensive football rules the day, Michigan continues to struggle against the really good offenses despite being loaded with great defensive talent.  Its offense just cannot keep pace despite its talent.

I am sure the previous two sentences resonated with you POVers.   Pitt indeed looked bad against the two elite (Final 4) teams it played this past season, no doubt!  But despite these two blowouts, it finished 2nd in the ACC in total defense this year …  cfbstats.com – 2020 Atlantic Coast Conference Team Leaders  … and   third in scoring defense … cfbstats.com – 2020 Atlantic Coast Conference Team Leaders .   When Clemson and Notre Dame are not playing each other, they rarely lose to ACC teams.  In fact, neither teamlost to another ACC team in 2020.

When Clemson and Notre Dame are not playing each other, they rarely lose to ACC teams.  In fact, neither have not lost to another ACC team since 2017 – four years ago.  (note that Notre Dame plays five ACC games per season, 2020 notwithstanding).  Just more evidence of the elite football teams separating themselves from the pack.

Otherwise, Pitt continues to be competitive in the ACC.  The issue is that it continues to lose close games as it has for quite a long time.   This can be improved upon whether it be by the current staff or another, but the chance Pitt football can ever become a national player is extremely unlikely.

That is not the case for Pitt basketball

Gonzaga has been a basketball power for some time.  And while it recruits well these days, it still doesn’t get the top players like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, etc. does.   But their players are getting to mature, becoming better players and better teammates over a 3 to 4 year process.  And when the seniors (or juniors) leave, you have people who have already been part of the program just step right in. 

I believe this is how Pitt prospered for much of the Dixon era.  Yes, they never made the Final Four but being an annual Top 20 program, and having two No. 1 seeds in a three-year period is certainly nothing to scoff at.  This doesn’t happen overnight and you need to bring in the players that fits your style of play …. At least that is how I believe Pitt did it 10-15 years ago.   Maybe part of the current problem is that Pitt has yet to develop any type of identity or style.  The current coach still may be swayed by the way his recent employer (and alma mater) does it.

Nonetheless, there is a decent chance that Pitt will once again become a well-respected basketball program whether it be with the current staff or another one.  It plays in one of the most respected basketball conferences, it has great student involvement and support, and the NYC/NJ area is arguably the best recruiting area, a place where Pitt has proven to be successful. 

I guess I am just trying to reinforce something that many of you all know.  Pitt can become what it once was just 10 years ago in basketball, but in football … it has a chance to be right there with the top teams in the ACC …. not named Clemson.  

This is not meant to be an endorsement or criticism of the current Pitt coaches.  Whether the current staffs should be retained is another issue that will always be debated.

62 thoughts on “WBB’s View of College FB & BB”

  1. Thanks for the article, WBB. Agree with your analysis. Loved it when Pitt was a force in the best college basketball league of all time – the old Big East. Here’s hoping it happens again for Pitt BB.

    Like

  2. Good article and you are exactly correct. Glad you added the last sentence but Tex will still post 50 times in this thread that the coaches and AD need fired, LOL.

    College football is becoming a joke. All us fans of the non-elite can only root for a division championship within our conference. Luckily for Pitt, the Coastal is weak and doesn’t have Clemson.

    Like

  3. Good analysis wbb, Jamie was able to do it with a few really good players and a bunch of role players, all who played defense and all buying into the system. The slow down game that many hated took the high flyers out of their desired rhythm.

    Any word on what ND is planning to do this year? It is possible that the pandemic will be under control by fall.
    Do they like their path to the playoffs provided by the ACC enough to stay for at least one more year?

    Like

    1. That’s why Pitt was so physical…the practices were tough and because the starters were all older than the competition.

      Like

  4. Why hasn’t Pitt cracked the top 25 in football despite playing in such an easy division and conference?

    It is because of the AD and coaches

    It always comes down to people

    From heather with a hard OOC every year and not enough rent a wins

    From heather giving Narduzzi an ill advised extension

    From Narduzzi not winning his bowl games

    From Narduzzi not recruiting well enough

    From Narduzzi not hiring the right staff

    Fix those things and you have a top 25 team

    Like

  5. Pitt basketball needs a true elite point guard and a solid center. Then you’ll see pitt back in the top third of the ACC conference as opposed to the bottom. Then you’ll see them back in the Big Dance.

    Like

  6. OT: Rumor from the Lair that there is a meeting going on right now where the X man is either leaving or being told to transfer. Lot’s of speculation with our AD and coaches and maybe the X’s family involved

    Like

    1. Don’t let the door hit you on your way out. I don’t like to bag on current players but I’ll make an exception in his case. The kid is a cancer.

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      1. On the Rumor from the Lair about the X Man, Chris Peak the moderator asked that the post be taken down and was done so. So who or what’s going on if anything is up in the air until further notice.

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  8. In basketball, one top player can really elevate a team (see Larry Bird-Indiana St.) In football of course this can’t happen.

    Like

    1. A QB can make the difference though

      Or some innovative offensive system and scheme. It’s all about matchups. The defense has to react.

      But I also like it when a D dictates. Like when Tampa went after a bad KC line and a gimpy QB.

      Like

  12. The rumor I guess was correct as the X man is leaving as posted by Tex above. To say the Pitt BB program is coming apart may be the understatement of the year. Rumor also has it the the Champ will be leaving for an attempt at the NBA come the end of this season.

    Like

  13. What a waste of some talent. Xman. Some of the toughest decisions a coach has to make is to cut ties with a startling five player.

    However, if that player doesn’t take to your coaching, won’t (it can’t)
    be a team player, and doesn’t play within your plan, it ruins the team.

    Time to say goodbye. Don’t let the door…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. I think this move is for the best. X had nice stats but the bad turnovers and his style of play just seemed to cause more chaos than good. While the three-man patchwork class Capel brought in his first season excited the fanbase, it sure seems he added two headcases and has curtailed the rebuild. Pitt fans are being more than patient with Jeff. I sure hope if he does turn the program that he doesn’t bolt. I’d increase the buyout for the program who would have to pay it.

    Oh, Jeff. Get some recruits for 2021 while you’re at it.

    Like

  16. Pitt needs a bag man. Not Big man.

    I don’t see Capel lasting until his contract expires in 2027 unless he significantly ups his recruiting. Pitt isn’t playing seton hall anymore.

    Like

    1. Come on mannnnnn. The Hall had some good teams in the Bigeast,

      Did something they we never did. They got to a Final 4 and indeed a Championship game,
      where they lost by a point.

      Even now they have been much better than Pitt the last 5 years under Kevin Willard.

      Like

      1. Providence then?

        My point is that the ACC is a far superior conference to any of the left over rags from the old big east. The play is vastly different. More athletic. The officiating is biased.

        More like nba ball than street ball.

        Dixon couldn’t cut it

        I don’t think Capel can either without the bag men and schoool name.

        Like

        1. Villanova has won a couple National Championships, being one of those old rags.

          Providence has been better than Pitt since 2014 and has also been in two Final 4’s.
          The last one, a few years before The Hall, when the Friars were under Rick Pitino.

          Agree with you, that Capel appears to need a bag man, to bag the big ones.

          You and I could recruit to Duke under Coach K. Bag man or not !

          Like

          1. Nova, g town, Saint johns and UConn should be part of the pitt diet. I don’t understand why we don’t play these teams. I’d gladly play in dc and philly for the publicity alone.

            Like

  17. We talk a lot on here about the “why” Pitt hasn’t been more successful, particularly in football. But really, it applies to all sports at Pitt.

    Some things that have been cited by many:

    – Pitt has a larger contingent of commuter students than many state universities (PSU, OSU, etc.);
    – Pitt is an urban campus, competing with major league sports teams, cultural and historical attractions, theme parks, etc;
    – Pitt has a much smaller undergraduate enrollment than most football powers;
    – Pittsburgh weather certainly isn’t for everyone.

    All of these are true. However..

    All of these things were also true from 1915-1937 (164-16 .911). And they were true from 1973-1989 (136-56-7 .708). And they were true in the period between those two, 1938-1972 (137-191-10 .418) and the era 1990-present (186-189 .496).

    So, while certain issues might be “facts” it doesn’t mean they are causal to the problem.

    The real issue? When Pitt wants to be good, they’re good. When they don’t care, they stink. If the issues listed by everyone for Pitt’s mediocrity have remained constant throughout the 130 year history of the school and the results have varied so greatly over distinct, sustained periods of time, they simply can’t be cited as REASONS for mediocrity. Call them what they are.. EXCUSES.

    Like many have said previously, Pitt (and more accurately the leather elbow patch-wearing academics in leadership) are so terrified of being ruled by athletics that they actively work against their own success. Why did Sutherland leave? They took away his ability to compete versus his peers. They let Sherrill walk for the same reason- and didn’t want to pay the money. And when that silly and irresponsible article about Wannstedt’s Pitt teams made it to the ivory tower- out went another winning coach.

    Whether you agree with this approach or don’t, it simply is how this school operates. The “nerds” hate the “jocks”. And when athletics becomes the “thing” at the University, leadership steps in to “knock them down a few pegs.”

    Because of this outlook, Pitt will never promote athletics as a vital part of the “Pitt experience.” And they will continue to struggle to compete or build a relationship with students and alumni.

    But, there’s hope on the horizon. My daughter, an athlete, sports fan and life-long Panther addict, recently was accepted to the University of Alabama. As she put it to me, “I’ll always root for Pitt but at least now when I come home to visit, we can share a team that actually cares about winning.”

    She’s 18 and gets it. It amazes me how so many others don’t.

    Roll Tide!

    Welcome back, Reed. It’s long overdue.

    Like

  18. Champ seemed pretty excited to learn that Pitt would play St Johns next year. Unless he gets rated a 1st round pick I think he comes back. If not, we might be seeing a minor rebuild going on with Pitt BB. Capel must realize that the current composition cannot make the NCAA tournament, either this year or next.

    Maybe he got word that Hugely is guilty and done at Pitt, and so he will need to begin another major recruiting effort. He can now bring in 3-4 players next year. I think Capel let it slip recently that years of talking to X Man have done no good, and he may have told hm that he would not start next year if he stayed.

    Liked by 1 person

    2. He was rated by one tout as the 17th best player for the NBA draft. That seems a bit higher than I would have rated him but if he believes the NBA scouts have him rated that high I see him opting out for the draft.

      Like

  19. We talk a lot on here about the “why” Pitt hasn’t been more successful, particularly in football. But really, it applies to all sports at Pitt.

    Some things that have been cited by many:

    – Pitt has a larger contingent of commuter students than most large universities (PSU, OSU, etc.);
    – Pitt is an urban campus, competing with major league sports teams, cultural and historical attractions, theme parks, etc;
    – Pitt has a much smaller undergraduate enrollment than most football powers;
    – Pittsburgh weather certainly isn’t for everyone.

    All of these are true. However..

    All of these things were also true from 1915-1937 (164-16 .911). And they were true from 1973-1989 (136-56-7 .708). And they were true in the period between those two, 1938-1972 (137-191-10 .418) and the era 1990-present (186-189 .496).

    So, while certain issues might be “facts” it doesn’t mean they are causal to the problem.

    The real issue? When Pitt wants to be good, they’re good. When they don’t care, they stink. If the issues listed by everyone for Pitt’s mediocrity have remained constant throughout the 130 year history of the school and the results have varied so greatly over distinct, sustained periods of time, they simply can’t be cited as REASONS for mediocrity. Call them what they are.. EXCUSES.

    Like many have said previously, Pitt (and more accurately the leather elbow patch-wearing academics in leadership) are so terrified of being ruled by athletics that they actively work against their own success. Why did Sutherland leave? They took away his ability to compete versus his peers. They let Sherrill walk for the same reason- and didn’t want to pay the money. And when that silly and irresponsible article about Wannstedt’s Pitt teams made it to the ivory tower- out went another winning coach.

    Whether you agree with this approach or don’t, it simply is how this school operates. The “nerds” hate the “jocks”. And when athletics becomes the “thing” at the University, leadership steps in to “knock them down a few pegs.”

    Because of this outlook, Pitt will never promote athletics as a vital part of the “Pitt experience.” And they will continue to struggle to compete or build a relationship with students and alumni.

    But, there’s hope on the horizon. My daughter, an athlete, sports fan and life-long Panther addict, recently was accepted to the University of Alabama. As she put it to me, “I’ll always root for Pitt but at least now when I come home to visit, we can share a team that actually cares about winning.”

    She’s 18 and gets it. It amazes me how so many others don’t.

    Roll Tide!

    Welcome back, Reed. It’s long overdue.

    Regards,

    Jason Smith

    Like

  20. We talk a lot on here about the “why” Pitt hasn’t been more successful, particularly in football. But really, it applies to all sports at Pitt.

    Some things that have been cited by many:

    – Pitt has a larger contingent of commuter students than most large universities (PSU, OSU, etc.);
    – Pitt is an urban campus, competing with major league sports teams, cultural and historical attractions, theme parks, etc;
    – Pitt has a much smaller undergraduate enrollment than most football powers;
    – Pittsburgh weather certainly isn’t for everyone.

    All of these are true. However..

    All of these things were also true from 1915-1937 (164-16 .911). And they were true from 1973-1989 (136-56-7 .708). And they were true in the period between those two, 1938-1972 (137-191-10 .418) and the era 1990-present (186-189 .496).

    So, while certain issues might be “facts” it doesn’t mean they are causal to the problem.

    The real issue? When Pitt wants to be good, they’re good. When they don’t care, they stink. If the issues listed by everyone for Pitt’s mediocrity have remained constant throughout the 130 year history of the school and the results have varied so greatly over distinct, sustained periods of time, they simply can’t be cited as REASONS for mediocrity. Call them what they are.. EXCUSES.

    Like many have said previously, Pitt (and more accurately the leather elbow patch-wearing academics in leadership) are so terrified of being ruled by athletics that they actively work against their own success. Why did Sutherland leave? They took away his ability to compete versus his peers. They let Sherrill walk for the same reason- and didn’t want to pay the money. And when that silly and irresponsible article about Wannstedt’s Pitt teams made it to the ivory tower- out went another winning coach.

    Whether you agree with this approach or don’t, it simply is how this school operates. The “nerds” hate the “jocks”. And when athletics becomes the “thing” at the University, leadership steps in to “knock them down a few pegs.”

    Because of this outlook, Pitt will never promote athletics as a vital part of the “Pitt experience.” And they will continue to struggle to compete or build a relationship with students and alumni.

    But, there’s hope on the horizon. My daughter, an athlete, sports fan and life-long Panther addict, recently was accepted to the University of Alabama. As she put it to me, “I’ll always root for Pitt but at least now when I come home to visit, we can share a team that actually cares about winning.”

    She’s 18 and gets it. It amazes me how so many others don’t.

    Roll Tide!

    Welcome back, Reed. It’s long overdue.

    Like

  21. Femi is a better point guard than X for sure. I have pushed Femi from day 1. Glad he will get to use the last few games to garner some much needed experience. Hopefully he improves more than his opponent.

    X would be a great point guard at UNLV under Jerry Tarkanian. Has talent has speed, just doesn’t know when to use either appropriately in my opinion. That’s a shame. There’s ways to fix that, and the coaches need to take some of the blame here. It’s called suicides/gassers. I will not believe it for one minute that he practiced under control and then went crazy at gametime. At practice, when a player is un-disciplined…all the team runs….and runs….and runs.

    The peer pressure alone, gets the offending participant to modify his behavior….usually. Or, it gets him to the portal. I wish him well.

    That said, I would have loved to see what the football team could have done with him as a cornerback. Very quick, good size, can defend really well when so inclined. Very handsy!

    Maybe the staff and ad took a look at the POV for guidance again. Worked when we played against syracuse the second time. I think the pov bball panel disected the syracuse defense in great detail and then poof, execution!

    wbb – good article for sure. I would probably argue that turning a program around in football is also doable. Unfortunately, timing of a big pitt event trumps the conversation. Like sports, time place and circumstance are critical.

    Like

      1. Ha! Spent many a Saturday afternoon at Bethel Park high school open gym playing against him. We had some great one on one games. He used to beat the snot out of me physically. I was a skinny 6’2″ point guard and he was a sleek 6’6″ forward. Crazy thing was that i considered him to be one of the best built players at the time when he was heading out to CC. When he came back, omg, his body changed and he was a man. I think he ended up about 6’9″, 250ish? He still beat the snot out of me physically after. He actually told me to foul him down low everytime he shot so he could get used to it……and just grin!

        I could type how I beat him a lot and noone would know differently….except me, since he passed away. Super nice kid in all our competition. Great memory!

        Now I am thinking back, we used to be in open gym from 1-3p and then after that, I would run pass routes with an old psu qb, and get defended by an ex psu linebacker who was playing for the jets by the name of Ron Crosby. He needed help in pass coverage skills…..alot! He used to always tell me that his game was not finesse and that if I was really playing against him, he would beat the snot out of me like Armond just did….lol. Great stuff. Crosby went about 6’3″ 230. Another kind, mountain of a man. My game was centered around looking at someone bigger than me and better than me and try to find their weakness and exploit it.

        Like

    2. Huff ….if X played LB in football, he’d be worth 5 offsides penalties and 3 interference calls a game. He is a stubborn undisciplined player at all he does. He is s a cancer to the coaches and team. What a shame.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Agreed Dan. I was just thinking about the athletic side of things, not the rest. I see body types and athletic abilities and try to fit them in other sports physically. Mentally, i leave that up to you smart guys!

        Like

  22. Does anyone else believe Capel is back to about the same place he was when Stallings was fired and he took the reigns right now?

    Like

    1. If Champ goes NBA and Hughley is gone for good. Yes almost. Still would have the best HS player in PA the last couple years, Jeffress. And Femi and Collier and Toney would be a Sr, if he doesn’t transfer out. The rest are marginal Stalling’s type players.

      Like

  23. It wasn’t working and glad someone decided a change was necessary. Sure looks like it was Capel who initiated this (and I hope so as well).

    Will be interesting to see what coach decides he’s the right guy to harness X-man’s talent.

    WBB – I will go back and read your post later tonight. Thank you for contributing!

    Like

  24. Pitt’s formula under Jamie is working for Tony Bennett and UVa.

    So that play style is working in the ACC. It just didn’t work for Pitt.

    So there’s more to it, than just team style. Much more !

    Like

  26. So X-man is leaving for a retrofit from Professor Xavier. Good luck to him !

    Good thing the ACC didn’t schedule any mid-week makeup game for us this week.

    Next year is going to be really ugly unless Capel recruits a PG and a 5,
    cause Hughley is probably gone too and even if he isn’t. Since Hughley is really a 4.

    Like

  27. I think the technical fouls were the final straw. X Man is just undisciplined and that doesn’t work well in a team sport. If Sibande, Horton and Feme are all back, they should be decent at guard if they recruit one PG. Obviously, top priority is a big man. But I’m still hoping that everything was a big mix up with Hugely, and he will be back next year. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Good article, wwb, thank you.

    I think part of the problem is that Coach Capel went after elite post players and struck out. Any one of those guys – like Cockburn – would have had a huge impact on the whole team.

    Maybe we need to aim a bit lower, at least for a while…

    X-Man is an elite athlete – too bad he couldn’t be coached…

    Go Pitt

    Like

  29. Hugely was considered a top post player, so Capel did succeed at bringing him in. He apparently didn’t notice his love of cars, however. But there must be some transfer portal or Jr College big men available who could help out next year.

    Like

    1. His love of hot wheels. I owned several as a kid. Would never steal a beat up ten year old Chevy Malibu. I stole Benz and beemer ornaments as a kid instead.

      Like

  30. And those UVA kids were not slackers when recruited. Bennett recruits for a certain style of play, but still gets good quality recruits.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Just like the Duke kid who took his ball and went home, this X-man exit is an addition by subtraction. We almost had Mr. Hyde for another year too. This will force Capel into looking for a true PG.

    Like

  33. danh72, please note the Sports Illustrated Top 60 out just today has him listed at #24 for this upcoming draft.

    Like

    1. I’ve talked to two scouts who say that his play of the last month has dropped him completely out of NBA consideration. If you trust SI for actual sports accurate news,
      you still believe in Santa Claus!

      But, we shall see….

      Liked by 1 person

  34. Good job wwb. I agree with your take on the football/basketball teams.

    24/7 has a transfer portal listing for basketball. Since I still can not post links, go to the 24/7 homepage. You will find the transfer portal under the BB recruiting tab. I get to 24/7 site through the CBS college football home page. Have fun looking for point guards and centers.

    BTW – Johnson is already listed as entering the portal. That means he asked to be listed 24-48 hours ago (Monday or Tuesday). There have been football players who have entered the portal but withdrew. Some even weeks later, It is also probable that this morning meeting was a last ditch effort to get Johnson to change his mind. But since that didn’t work, he is gone in my opinion.

    Like

    2. Funny….former Pitt shooting Guard, Parker Stewart is listed in the portal as well.

      NCAA has created more chaos. Mimic.

      Like

  36. The portal goes hand in hand with litigation that is out there. The Supreme Court will be hearing a case in April on paying players more than their stipend. The decision will come out in June. By allowing players to transfer without penalty, it negates the lawsuit that was going to follow about depriving an individual the right to make money/work.

    There’s always more to these things so don’t blame the NCAA. Blame the lawyers!!!!

    Like

  37. Some of the kids use the portal to negotiate playing time for the next year (see Wade at Dairy College) and many others. It forces a conversation about future and that is what happened today with Dave C(h)apel and XJohnson. Johnson thinks he is getting short shifted and threatens portal. Portal means conversation. Either coach caves or coach braves. If coach is brave, we have a scholarship opening. If coach caves, the cancer spreads. I do believe that is one of the reasons Dairy struggled last year.

    When players run the place, the place loses.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Who would win this team as it is now or the Stallings team with Marcus Carr, Parker Stewart, Wilson Frame, Shamile Stevison, etc. would be a close game. Are we better off.

    Like

    1. The Stallings 0-18 acc team didn’t have Wilson-Frame.

      Current team would rout them. Brown could play for both sides. lol

      The better question is maybe: who would out coach the other.

      Like

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