There’s been some very good debate on the “state of the program” here on the POV in the last couple of days. There are those that believe that the football program has reached its ceiling under head coach Pat Narduzzi, and there are those that believe that coach Narduzzi has built the foundation, and the program is poised to move to the next level.
This is a debate that will rage on well into the season, and I encourage that. After all, the Hegelian dialectic is what makes the Pitt POV great. (Although you might argue that the only synthesis we reach is “hey lets all go to Fran’s Pitt POV tailgate”)
With that being said, one of our pessimists (The illustrious Texas Panther) recently said that attending Pitt in the 1990’s was “the worst sports experience in the history of mankind”.
As you might expect, one of our optimists (the intrepid Major Majors) responded in kind, saying “I guess it’s a good thing you didn’t attend Pitt in the late 60’s when we had three consecutive 1-9 seasons…
And that got me to thinking, what was the worst decade in Pitt Football history? The program has certainly had it’s ups and downs, and how do the 90’s rank when compared to the 1960’s for example?
Fortunately there is an outstanding website, called sports-reference.com, that can help us answer these important questions.
For this analysis, I do want to put two ground rules in place.
First , I will go back 70 years. If you graduated Pitt in 1950 at the age of 21, you are 90 now, and I don’t think anyone older than that is following this blog. If you are, I have two things to say: Thank you for reading the Pitt POV, and thank you for your service to this country because your generation pretty much saved the world. Thank you.
Second, the measure of success is winning percentage. That is because over time the NCAA has expanded the season from 9 to 10 to 11 to finally 12 games since 1950.
Okay so now on to the analysis.
First, the 1950’s. The decade started off poorly with Len Casanova’s 1950 squad posting a record of just 1-8. That earns him the title of worst-coach-with-the-best name. John Michelosen pulled things together though, posing four winning seasons out of 5 from 1955 – 1959, along with three top-25 finishes. Go Pitt.
Games Played: 95
Games Won: 46
Winning %: .482
Avg SOS: 8.18
The 1960’s were kind of like the 1950’s in reverse. The first five years weren’t too bad. Michelosen was at the helm and he even delivered a top-5 finish in 1963, but for some reason he couldn’t keep it rolling, and he was replaced by Dave Hart in 1966. Hart’s tenure proved to be an unmitigated disaster, and resulted in the aforementioned three straight 1-9 seasons. Carl DePasqua did manage to move things in the right direction in 1969 with a four win season (which was still pretty bad), but overall if you do the math, Pitt won 10 games over five years, marking the latter half of the 1960’s as Pitt Football’s worst five-year stretch in modern history. Hail to Pitt.
Games Played: 95
Games Won: 34
Winning %: .358
Avg SOS: 7.32
Ahh the 1970’s. Carl DePasqua ushered Pitt into the decade with a whimper, but Jackie Sherril took us out with a bang. 1975 – 1979 were hands-down the best five years the program ever experienced. The team averaged 9.6 wins, notched three top-10 finishes (and one top 15) and brought home the Crown Jewell of Pitt’s football legacy, the 1976 National Championship. This is the level of prominence that all Pitt fans hope to achieve, and it’s the standard to which the pessimists hold the program. And honestly, the pessimists are probably right, the only way to achieve this is for the fans to hold the administration accountable. Of course these days that means dirty money and everything else that comes with it, as well as a huge increase in investment on the “clean money” side, and we all know that that’s not going to happen at Pitt. (So who is the pessimist now?)
Games Played: 113
Games Won: 70
Winning %: .620
Avg SOS: 6.10
The 1980’s were also pretty good. The Sherrill train was rolling for the first two years, and Foge Fazio looked like he could keep the momentum going for his first two years. But two bad seasons by Fazio mid-decade prompted quick action by the administration. Fazio was fired in 1985 and Mike Gottfried was hired, and that was the beginning of the end. Mike Gottfried brought Pitt football back through a combination of decent recruiting and softer scheduling, but apparently he was a tough guy to get along with, and he was fired in 1989, just prior to the Sun Bowl. The reason for Gottfried’s dismissal was “The differences in philosophy and the operation of his program”, according to then-athletic director Ed Bozik. A great article on the firing can be found here.
Games Played: 111
Games Won: 74
Winning %: .667
Avg SOS: 5.07
Per our friend the Texas Panther, the 1990’s were indeed bad. If consistency is your measure then the 1990’s were the worst decade for Pitt football. If relative performance is your measure than perhaps the 1990’s were indeed the Worst Sports Experience in the History of Mankind. Imagine coming to Pitt as a student in 1990. You’d grown up with Pitt being a national power. Sure they’d had some ups and down recently, and the coach had just been let go, but this was Pitt. They had been winning for the last twenty years. This was the house that Dorsett and Marino built, and they were back on track baby! But then…Paul Hackett. He won 12 games in three years. And then…Johnny Majors II. Majors won 12 games in four years. By the time Walt Harris was hired, Pitt’s football program had been completely obliterated.
Games Played: 111
Games Won: 37
Winning %: .333
Avg SOS: 2.31
The 2000’s saved Pitt football, and Harris probably doesn’t get enough credit his contribution. If Pitt had gone another three or four years with three or four wins, Pitt football might have been history. But Harris was the right man for the rebuild. Even though he was a marginal recruiter, he was probably the best offensive mind that Pitt has ever had. He got the most out of his mostly three-star offense, and when he had talent to work with (Larry Fitzgerald, Antonio Bryant, Tyler Palko) he made the most of it. Harris also was pretty good at hiring the right DC (for most of his tenure). The result was five straight winning seasons, an average win total of 7.8 and one shared Big East Championship / BCS bowl appearance. However, a combination of factors (a belief that Harris had ahem taken Pitt as far as it could go and Harris’ agent publicly talking smack about Pitt), led to Harris’ dismissal. It happened right after his Fiesta Bowl loss, which was also an 8 win season and a top 25 finish. That top 25 finish was Pitt’s second in 12 years. The other top 25 finish? Also provided by Harris, just two years before.
Dave Wannstadt took the helm with much fanfare in 2005 and promptly won 5, 6 and 5 games. He was the polar opposite of Harris – terrible at the x’s and o’s but pretty damn good at recruiting. The “jimmy’s and joe’s” strategy paid off in 2009 when Pitt posted their first 10 win season since 1981 (29 years…).
Games Played: 123
Games Won: 74
Winning %: .601
Avg SOS: 1.66
Enter the 2010’s. It all started with so much promise. Pitt was coming off their 10 win season. Wanny was a Pitt man, and Pitt legacy Tino Sunseri had just taken over the helm at quarterback. However, the team floundered to a 7 win season, and that was compounded by the fact that Wannstadt was the polar opposite of Harris in his ability to control his players and recruit guys who wouldn’t,, say…throw a guy through a plate glass window on the South Side. An unfavorable Sports Illustrated article and the reintroduction of “Smilin” Steve Pederson at DA were the final nails in Wanny’s coffin, and he was let go before “the first” BBVA Compass Bowl in 2010.
And that is really when Pitt’s current mediocrity began. Much of it was due to Pitt’s bumbling efforts to secure a stable head coach to replace Wannstadt. Todd Graham lasted one season. Michael Haywood lasted three days. Paul Chryst lasted until his uncle Barry called him home to Wisconsin. Pat Narduzzi finally brought some stability, and he’s entering his fifth year. Narduzzi has posted a very Walt Harris-esque string of win totals, against a strength of schedule that is higher than anyone since Mike Gottfried (and much higher than Wannstadt.). Still, Narduzzi is a polarizing figure, and as I said before, the jury is out on if he can get Pitt to the next level. And so Despite Narduzzi’s recent relative successes (two 8 win seasons and an ACC coastal championship), the 2010’s have been a decade defined my mediocrity. Our highs have not been too high and our lows have not been too low. Pitt football is currently stuck in purgatory, and while for some people that’s not so bad, for some people that’s just plain hell.
Games Played: 117
Games Won: 61
Winning %: .521
Avg SOS: 2.7
Hail to Pitt
Michaelangelo Monteleone
pittpov.com 
wow
you nailed it Mike
i honestly didnt think the numbers would support my description of Hell
all I knew was it was some very bad football being played
to grow up as a kid watching Pitt be elite and then personally witness what I did was really psychologically damaging
I cant name one other school that just dropped off the cliff like Pitt. I know Nebraska had some difficulties. Wonder who Pitt has in common with that school?
LikeLiked by 3 people
I wrote a blog article here entitled ‘Perspective’ a few months ago, and the data presented above only reinforces it.
Fact is that the Late 70s / Early 80s IS THE ABERRATION. Otherwise, for the last 70 years, this program has been maybe above average (and that’s being kind.) And no, (1) Pitt will no longer bring in a recruiting class of 85, nor (2) does it have an attractive local base of quality high football players …. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
You want to complain about this game or that one … fine … that’s what fans do. But expecting this program to win 10 games when it only has done so ONCE since 1982 may be asking too much. Yes, it may happen again when all the stars align, but it will never be the norm … times have changed
LikeLiked by 2 people
So according to what I’m reading here is that PITT has pretty much sucked since Jackie. Gottfried did steady the football program a little but seemed to be a bad boy. So it comes down to this and Mike and I agree… It’s pretty much time to put up or I shut up time for Narduzzi. Here’s betting I’ll still be talking when the season is over. God willing. << for me, not PITT or Narduzzi.
LikeLike
If banging the cheerleading coach and getting top recruits with shady assistants makes you a bad boy, then Gottfried was definitely the man to lead Pitt through the 1990s.
There is a sport purgatory I hope for those then Pitt leaders who killed it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pitt thought they could continue being a top program by raising academic standards, running a clean program, disbanding the Golden Panthers, and by being cheap.
Many schools during this period were doing the exact opposite.
So Bozik decides to change the sports culture at Pitt and we see the results of it to this day.
Pitt’s academic standards arent hurting them today…all ACC schools have the same requirements…Pitt’s are no more stringent than others. And running a clean program does have its benefits. But to achieve elite level these days, schools cheat in some way. Ask Miami, NC, FSU. And the NCAA doesnt even blink an eye. Media sings your praises for winning.
Reforming and reintroducing the Golden Panthers is a way to get back on track. This association would have to be regulated or well audited unlike before. It was relatively easy to find boosters willing to support a winner in the 80’s. More difficult to do today given the years of mediocrity. But I think a major capital project could bring people together and galvanize support with a common cause (OCS anyone?).
But even if Bozik didnt put on the brakes, Pitt wasnt spending what they needed even back then. It never had the revenues of other schools. Coaching is what carried Pitt. Coaches who had great assistants and great recruiters. Tough to hold it all together when you get outspent by other schools (see A&M).
I dont expect consistent 11 win seasons but I do see ways to consistently win 9-11 each year. I do believe it will take spending some more money, getting ‘lucky’ on coaching hires and easing up the schedule. Pitt can get there. But it would take another culture transformation to get to elite level and in the end Pitt would not be able to sustain it because it doesnt have the revenues of these larger state schools.
Great coaches, great local recruits and cheating got Pitt to the promised land. I dont expect any national championships but I do think a foundation can be built to achieve and sustain more than mediocrity. But is Pitt willing to make that commitment. If they are, it starts with increasing revenues and better managing the finances.
LikeLike
What was bizarre in the mid-90s when the administration was okay losing games 72-0 is the school ungraded the facilities at Pitt stadium. Whirl pools, weight room, etc. That commitment should have begun heading in the 1990s as television made clear it was going to make more of a commitment to college football.
CBS was it on Saturdays until ABC and ESPN doubled down. As this happened Pitt became totally irrelevant and the then-Chancellor, J. Dennis O’Connor, should have immediately tried to save the program when he took over in 1991 but had no interest in doing so.
LikeLike
Tx, What academics? The golden grail used to evaluate entrance requirements, US News and World Report, have us down to number 70!!!! Granted we have some good programs. Medicine being the best. Glad we kept Pharmacy. Engineering is good. Law school and MBA programs could be better. We were rated in the 40’s in the 1960’s.
PITT needed students to pay the bills and lowered the curve to get in, plus it is too much of a city school (not a pretty, grassy, campus setting),and the loss of local population. Kids in my area of NJ don’t pick PITT. Athletics play a part in choosing where to apply. PSU wins hands down
Reviewing history, Bozik should share more blame here. Besides firing Gottfried, did he also fire the basketball coach, Dr. Roy Chipman? Steve Pederson was the worst.
LikeLike
I believe Pitt’s Physical Therapy Program is still ranked #1 in the country.
LikeLike
PittPT, Sorry I forgot physical therapy. your right, the masters program is #1 in the Country.
TX Panther, I like the idea of excelling in minor sports. Gets the University noticed. What about men’s Lacrosse? Do we not have the money to join the ACC elite schools that play the sport? I also agree being a top football school will not be possible in today’s climate. Basketball is another story. Just need some big time recruiting. Maybe we have to cheat.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Bozik was pretty bad and J Dennis OConnor who succeeded Posvar was equally bad. The mid 80’s were a turning point in Pitt athletics. The Killer B’s were in charge. Billick, Bozik and Briscoe. They fundamentally changed the sports culture with the help of the BoT. Posvar was senile by then and very hands off.
But even if Pitt had different leadership and a different mindset, Pitt couldnt compete in the end with large state schools. Pitt would have needed to follow the Miami model. Similar small and ‘private’ school. But Miami cheated and never lost its local recruiting advantage. PA was losing population and Pitt decided not to cheat. They disbanded the Golden Panthers.
Not saying that Pitt cant catch lightening in a bottle but those sustained elite years will never happen again. Its good that at least some of us remember them.
Thats why I say be good in football and basketball. Better than mediocre. Be relevant. But really begin to focus on sports where Pitt can become elite. Take wrestling, hockey and lacrosse for example.
LikeLike
BTW Mike, another great article.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Excellent article, MM, but who goes to Pitt for 10 years? Okay, maybe some do…
In the late 60s, it took 3 years to win THREE games! The worst 3-year spell in the 90s found Pitt winning EIGHT games!
Come on, man!
😊
Go Pitt!
LikeLike
Haha yes bet expectations were so much lower
LikeLike
but you 60’s grads got rewarded with a championship just a few years later
my generation got rewarded with more 5 win seasons, the tearing down of Pitt Stadium and the Dinocat
that was a great way to kick a 90’s grad when they’re down
LikeLike
Hey That dinocat saves Pitt football and don’t you forget it 🙄
LikeLiked by 1 person
Great article.
If anyone else was curious, it was 36 years ago, in 1982, that we had a strength of schedule higher than last year’s.
LikeLiked by 2 people
And Notre Dame was down in 1982 yet still beat Pitt.
The wrong man was in charge instead of the right guy who wanted the job: George Welsh.
LikeLike
OT: Some additional bad news for Pitt FB recruiting today when Central Catholic star A J Beatty with over 40 offers left Pitt off his final 7 list announced today. PSN reported this this afternoon. The kid did not want to talk about any schools not on his final list. He’s off to NC no less i believe this weekend for an official visit. Yikes!
LikeLiked by 1 person
AJ Beatty of CC narrowed his schools to seven and Pitt, the first big school to offer, didn’t make it. He’s a 3-star DE.
Get this, Beatty said his number one criterion was education Then facilities and comfort level.
So how did WVU make the final list, one might wonder… UNC too…
Wish they would have asked him what he wants to major in…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
UNc much better academic than Pitt but WVU…no way
LikeLike
I was 93′ to 98′ … combined with Pitt basketball … the sports experience ever. My greatest memories are getting hit with friendly fire by a guy passing out and creating a pee rainbow at a trough … and myself passing out during a Syracuse game (pre-gamed with grain alcohol … learned my lesson) and waking up to an empty stadium like the apocalypse had just happened. Seriously, no one moved me. Lol. I had to wander around the stadium for a half hour to find a security guard to let me out because i was locked in. Or the time I went to a Halloween party as a freshman dressed in boxing head gear. Nothing like literally getting punch drunk and waking up to a homeless person eating O’s pizza out of your lap while passed out on the Pitt Stadium steps. Ahhh … good times.
Fav on the field moments … watching Khalid El-Amin jump on a table after beating us last minute and waiving a towel around like a mad man … oh wait, that was the other team. Then it would have to be watching the Miami basketball team forget to come out of a timeout and Pitt have a 5 on zero for a layup. I like to take partial credit because we had partied all night with the Miami team at a fraternity social in Green Tree the night before. I’ll never forget the elevator door opening at the hotel and the Miami basketball team seeing all the alcohol and just being like “Oh, hell yeah”. Lol. Of course there was the Miami football game where we stormed the field too. That was fun.
To continue the conversation from the other thread … I cannot stand Chryst and it’s the one thing that keeps me in tune with the Duzz haters. I know what it’s like to abhor your coach … it’s not fun.
LikeLiked by 2 people
T.T., Your recollection, or lack thereof, of those times is hilarious. I even copied/sent your mishaps to some buddies of mine. Priceless. Too funny.
LikeLiked by 1 person
FWIW, I don’t have a real bad memory of Chryst although the thing that bothered me was his complete ignorance of anything defensively. Even though he had offensive expertise, he surrounded himself with fellow offensive coaches with much experience, yet his defensive staff was filled with coaches who had 1 or 2 years experience. The imbalance was head-scratching
LikeLike
M… Excellent stuff except… Sherrill 75-79?
LikeLike
In that decade
LikeLike
Be careful what you say Carl DePasqua also gave Pitt two of the best wins ever and I should knw I was at them and in all fairness he never got the chance to play his own recruits.
LikeLike
Cool. Which wins?
LikeLike
As for Narduzzi hitting his head on a ceiling?
Think that ever elusive first Bowl win might be just around the corner.
Repeat Coastal Championship another story.
LikeLike
Regarding Chryst…
As noted on the previous thread… PLENTY to hate come fall.
Lol
LikeLike
The photo of Hackett is fitting for the article as that appears to be Oklahoma game from 1990. Pitt lost, 52-10. That definitely was a sign of what was to come for the rest of the decade.
LikeLike
I went to that game, 100 degrees in Norman OK that day. None of the Sooner fans in my office wanted to go.
LikeLike
I remember Oklahoma at Pitt Stadium in early 84, when 2 ranked teams met before a crowd of 40k. The game was close until the Sooners scored 2 TDs in the last 2 minutes of the first half. Final 42-10
The only other things I remember from that day is that Barry Switzer was OU coach, John Congemi was Pitt QB, and the OU crowd gave Roger Kingdom a standing O when he was honored at halftime (he had just won the first his 2 Golds a couple of weeks before)
LikeLike
I was there. Parking and traffic was so bad that I parked on the edge of the bridge between Phipps and campus. Got towed of course. I do not miss the Oakland parking scene one bit.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Good stories Tossing…
Great article Maestro…
Anyone else playing in the Pitt Celebrity Golf Outing at Champion Lakes tomorrow?
I have the pleasure of teeing it up with Richman, Major Majors and my nephew Greg.
Sort of a warm up for the Frankcan Cup…
LikeLiked by 4 people
Don’t forget your celebrity………. Most likely Heather. No doubt requested Richman’s group. 🙂
LikeLiked by 3 people
Pictures please.
LikeLike
Pitt’s losses in the 90’s were some of the most lopsided in history
Pitt has a tendency to manufacture problems, over-react and then produce bad solutions
So taking the Hegel framework, I’ll just list some problems that I think are easier to gain factual consensus than the solutions.
outside volleyball and wrestling, Pitt’s programs are either mediocre or just downright bad
Pitt is revenue challenged and poor relative to most P-5 schools
Pitt continues to provide a high % subsidy towards athletics
Those are three for starters since I dont think there would be much disagreement.
volleyball and wrestling were the only sports to finish ranked. what makes them successful? Personally, I think they have very good coaches. So maybe coaching is a solution. Pitt should do a deep dive into what makes them successful. The learnings could be applied to help improve other programs. Success is contagious. How is their ‘culture’ different.
Pitt does sit near the bottom of all P-5 schools based on total revenues. Thats a function of ticket sales, donations, sponsorship’s and other marketing rights/fees. Well, winning could help solve some of the ticket sales but does anyone really think Pitt is doing a good job marketing the programs. I still dont know the plan and tactics being used to jump start donations. Sponsorships and advertising revenues? Yes – Pitt has certain constraints like a smaller fanbase but quite frankly what is Pitt doing to grow new fans?
What concerns me is that Pitt is receiving what I call ‘free’ money from the conference. Pitt doesnt really earn this money (most schools get around the same amount regardless of performance). Thats their check for being a member. It really provides Pitt with little incentive to be innovative in growing revenues and being fiscally responsible. Pitt had to work much harder and smarter when their Big East check was only $4M each year.
Every year Pitt runs a deficit and that hole is large relative to other P-5 schools…about 15% of Pitt’s budget is subsidized. Typically, if a school cant increase the revenues (sometimes with increased student fees) to offset, expenses get cut. That often means eliminating programs or reducing program budgets. Every program except for mens football and basketball loses money. That ACC check and primarily football help subsidize these ‘Olympic’ sports. But in Pitt’s case like with many schools, there is still an overall deficit. And in Pitt’s case, the deficit is balanced with a transfer of monies from the general fund. Pitt hasnt been forced to cut programs or cut back on football spending yet, but this imbalance is not sustainable in the long run. You can only kick the can down the road for so long.
Those roundtable discussions could help address these real problems and others. I’d gladly pay Pitt $100 to be a part of one just to be heard and offer ideas. I’m more interested if they see the same problems that I have outlined.
But I fear that Pitt will continue doing what its done with football in the past. Create a crisis. Over-react to it. Pretend to solve it. And now everyone is worse off and Pitt is truly in a bigger and real crisis.
LikeLike
I was at pitt from 99-2003. Fell in love with pitt athletics during that time and was treated to reasonable fb and bb success during those years.
I have never experienced the fb depths of the 90’s or 60’s. My experience has been getting my hopes up but getting them crushed with guttwrenching losses. Close to getting to the next level but always falling agonizingly close but short.
LikeLike
Pitt will never be able to fund athletics at a high level out of operations. Looking at MM’s synopsis it seems that it went down hill once the Golden Panthers was disbanded. A funding arm is absolutely necessary to bring up the resources to the level necessary for top flight programs.
LikeLike
I was there 92-96. Luckily I didn’t go to pitt because I was a pitt football fan. I became a fan of pitt football and basketball well after graduation.
I went to a couple of games while I was there, but I went alone as none of my roommates wanted to go.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You’ll never be alone again my friend…😎
LikeLiked by 3 people
You’ll never walk alone
LikeLike
Anfield
LikeLike
Yes – Liverpool
LikeLike
M… My point above was that Sherrill took over as Head Coach in ’77.
1973–1975 Pittsburgh (AHC/DC)
1976 Washington State
1977–1981 Pittsburgh
1982–1988 Texas A&M
1991–2003 Mississippi State
LikeLike
Ah yea Sherril / majors in the 70’a then
LikeLike
As far as Foge goes… It never looked good.
He TOTALED the Ferrari.
Arguably the WORST Pitt HEAD Football Coach ever considering what he was handed by Sherrill.
But a SOLID Defensive Coach and All-around GOOD Guy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
On game day my dad pronounced Foge “foggy”…
No need for definition.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Foge has some great players but coached lyke Barney Fife.
Sitting on my deck listening to Muddy Waters and enjoying grilled chicken kebob with Mrs. Erie.
“I’m a man. M. A. N. “ he ain’t jiven…
LikeLiked by 1 person
Never did I think I would have to argue that my stint 68-72 wasn’t the worst in Pitt history and maybe the most disappointing of all.
Along with Major Majors, I sat in the Syria Mosque in 68 and listened to the Greatest Used Car Sales pitch ever made! “This is the year the Panther begins to growl! “ boasted a new head coach Dave Hart.
Three 1-9 seasons later, there wasn’t a sober student left in old Pitt Stadium ! It was a form of “awful” that you had to be there to appreciate!!
LikeLiked by 4 people
Ps. I never missed a home game in my 4 years at Pitt and never left early. Oklahoma had us down at least 40 at half.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Really enjoying the passionate discussion on Pitt’s recent FB history and it’s high points and candidates for lowest points. In an unrelated matter, I had the pleasure to treat a young lady today who told me she played basketball for Pitt from 1956-1959. I reviewed the history of Pitt’s women’s basketball and found out that Women’s basketball was a club sport during that period, resuming NCAA participation in the early 1970’s. Nonetheless,I was honored to spend time with and listen to stories from a Pitt athlete from an earlier age. H2P!
LikeLiked by 3 people
OT: Our golfer #’s are up to 29 as of this afternoon. That will give us (8) teams to compete for the coveted Frankcan Cup.
Long and straight will be great. Right and long will be wrong…”A” game will be a must or you’ll hear few words of “cuss”.
In the town known for it’s Whoopie Pies,
The winning team should tell no lies.
The mystery guest has yet to commit,
But then again that is so lyke Pitt.
Sorry to announce but the golf registration must close,
Unless the Duzz wants to play, I suppose.
H2P!
LikeLiked by 6 people
The actual answer is that any of the aforementioned decades could qualify as the absolute worst….the key variable is how much beer you could afford during that decade.
LikeLiked by 2 people
A Hegel reference! Really intellectualizing this place, and I like it. I look forward to a future post using a Socratic dialogue to explain why Narduzzi can’t recruit the WPIAL.
LikeLiked by 4 people
I would like this twice if I could
LikeLike
Pitt baseball ending the season with a thud!
Lost last night 7-12 to GT. Lost tonight again 0-2 on a 2 hit performance by the offense.
Granted, GT is #6 in the polls.
LikeLike
I’ll never forget the little inset in in the editor’s section of SI back in the late 90s.
Dave Hart’s son comes home from school with tears in his eyes and tells him mom that his classmates are saying that dad ain’t a good football coach.
And mom replies …. now you know better than that, dad isn’t a good football coach
LikeLiked by 1 person
… back in the late 60s .. sorry
LikeLike
I’m convinced that something happened under Sherrill that caused Pitt to change course on Pitt athletics. Sherrill was a good coach but never had quite the success afterwards at A & M and MS. They went safe with Foge, instead of doing a national search. Maybe the BoT forced The Chancellor’s hand to not be a football power. Not sure how this aligns with the demise of the Golden Panthers.
LikeLike
Insert psuX new board members onto the BoT via Paturdo influenced state politicians?
It had to of started somewhere.
LikeLike
it started right after Pitt won a national championship before Poopy Pants
LikeLike
I’m thinking they might have found major infractions internally, and were able to keep it quiet. Sherrill May have decided to move on and Pitt went low profile with Foge. Is this possible?
LikeLike
infractions, cheating, etc
Paterno even knew Jackie was cheating
Sherrill couldnt pass up the A&M money.
LikeLike
Sherrill was a compulsive gambler and owed bookies many $$$. Pitt found out and Was going to fire him.
A&M also knew, hired him and paid off every bookie in town. True story.
LikeLike
The BoT composition had changed. The Killer B’s were in charge. Pitt found the culture needed to sustain an elite program to be distasteful.
It did not want to become an Alabama, Oklahoma or Nebraska. It was better than those schools. And Pitt was at least academically.
It wanted to stay that way and make sure the emphasis was on the mission statement. The mission was to educate and not win sports championships. But they lacked the foresight.
The focus shifted to inside the house and the front porch and yard was neglected. The schools that invested in sports during this time period are generally the ones that are most successful to this day.
LikeLike
It’s hilarious how Stanford, much, much better than Pitt academically, takes athletics serious and Pitt thinks winning in sports isn’t beneficial for the university.
LikeLike
The leaders at Pitt have always been resentful of athletics. The academic wing runs the school. Athletics is beneath them. They know its dirty.
Think of it from their perspective. Athletics let in kids who have no business being in school where they end up taking fake classes or have tutors take their tests. They have programs where boosters pay these kids sometime more than the profs themselves make. They have head coaches having affairs with cheerleader coaches. And every year athletics steals millions from educational funds to balance their budget.
Thats why things are the way they are at Pitt.
Now that was then. This is now.
Pitt’s athletes are very bright. They take real classes and they graduate. No issue there.
The Golden Panthers are dead so no seedy booster involvement and cheating
Coaches arent banging cheerleaders and the athletes are well behaved so no bad PR
The profs love the current state of athletics at Pitt
But Stanford is also running sports like Pitt but Stanford is very good across all sports
Well Stanford doesnt have a BoT packed with Nitters and bureaucrats making sure that Pitt athletics doesnt become excellent and challenge the State school in Creepy Valley
Thats why Pitt doesnt address their revenue issues, they keep losing millions each year and there is no talk about bringing football back to campus.
Heck, even that buddy of Posvars and academic nerd Bozik wanted to raze Pitt Stadium back in the early 80’s and build a new domed venue. But the BoT wouldnt allow it. Paterno knew the only way he could beat Pitt is by corrupting Pitt’s BoT and installing his own puppets. Paterno had every State politician in his pockets.
It was a conspiracy that continues to this day
LikeLike
Every time I hear Gallagher say ‘no collusion’, I want to punch him
LikeLike
dan72.. I was at that game too…can still hear Ed Conway “ Mildren pitches to Pruitt… he’s on the 50.. the 20… he scores !!!” Thats how the day went…Jack Mildren, Greg Pruitt, Joe Wylie and Leon Crosswhite… the Wishbone ruled- forget the forward pass…. who does that remind you of .. that’s the “ forget the forward pass” part of that statement???????
LikeLike
It was like Pitt was standing still.
I remember Crosswhite taking a pitch and faking out 4 Pitt D players for a TD. That was as drunk as I ever was at a game.
LikeLike
LikeLiked by 2 people
good read on the history of Pitt
https://pittsburgh.sportswar.com/article/2014/12/22/debunking-the-myths-of-steve-pederson/
the article leaves off before the hire of Narduzzi (actually 1 day before his hire) and a replacement AD
the author points out what Pitt needed as a new AD and initially Pitt did get a marketer and fundraiser in Barnes who was then replaced with a non marketing, non fundraiser, non finance person. Opting for a compliance person instead which brings us back to Pitt not willing to cheat.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Dan, maybe Sherrill was found to be betting on college games and was then ushered out of town before the NCAA found out. If so, they did a good job of keeping it quiet. And Foge was a good company man who would not rock the boat.
LikeLike
Sherrill would bet on 2 ants crossing the floor. No doubt he bet on college ball. He was also banging the cheerleading coach and maybe even married her. Darrell Sherrill?
LikeLike
Pitt must of had some very attractive cheerleader coaches back in the 80’s
LikeLike
Yeah, if both Sherrill and Gottfried banged them. Sad that some fans think it is wrong for the coach to do that and it added to the list of reasons warranting them leaving or being fired.
LikeLike
Biggie and brother Dan, I was also at that Oklahoma game.
They weren’t fast, they were ffast.
rreally ffast.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I was at the Oklahoma game too. Pitt got the ball first and scored a TD to go up 7-0. Then we kicked off and either Greg Pruitt or Joe Wylie returned it for a TD. The rout was on. Game over very quickly.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Couple things:
I have no doubts about brother Dan’s accounts of Jackie being a 3 rivers gambler. He had a side to him that was shady no question about it. Another story goes like this.. Jackie would put a coach up in this tall tower (AKA Kelly’s tower) with binoculars, not to watch the practice but to look for spies nearby the stadium. (not Reed) The coach spotted a young man and young lady on a park bench a block or two away so Jackie sent a security guard to kick them out. Turns out they were just making out. Jackie made Narduzzi look normal.
But if PITT forced Jackie out, then they forced him to be the highest paid head football coach in college history at the time. This did not make Jackie blue.
I remember when PITT played Oklahoma back in those days and I do remember their speed. They were even faster on defense flying all over the place. My memory thinks they played them in Norman once also??
BTW, thanks for the clip Biggie, that song was better than a cup of coffee to wake me up.
LikeLike
Actor and former UCLA QB Mark Harmon has received the National Football Foundation’s Gold Medal award in recognition for his accomplishments and reflecting the values of amateur football…. How many of you were with me in dear ole PITT Stadium when Mark the Bruins came to town ???
LikeLike
I was there
LikeLike
me too
LikeLike
2019 – celebrating 150 years of college football !!!
LikeLike
Didn’t he get hurt that game B? Vince Evans came in and they beat PITT something like 16-7. That’s the game I was at. Maybe you’re talking about another one?
LikeLike
Wait a minute, that was the USC game…… my bad
LikeLike
I just re-read the blog article and noticed MM’s Freudian slip … referring to ‘Smiling’ Steve Pederson as a DA.
It should be noted that nobody but a few Pitt admin was aware of the SI article at the time of Wanny’s dismissal. And the article actually wasn’t printed until about 3 months later. It also should be noted that Wanny did not commit any NCAA infractions.
Despite the fact that nobody knew of the pending SI article at the time, the following publicly applauded Wanny’s dismissal …. Chris Dokish, Chas Rich, Ron Cook, Joe Starkey and dozens of Pitt Blather posters …. and of course, that was just a sampling.
I assume that despite Wanny’s final 3 year record of 27-12, everyone assumed that Pitt would just continue its level of success, and with a new coach may even get better. But Mike Haywood never got the chance. And while WVU paid $2M to bring in Holgerson, Pitt was offering $1,4M.
The general public apparently didn’t approve of Wanny’s firing since attendance dropped off in 2011 and never recovered … except for 2013 which was Pitt’s first year in the ACC and had a home schedule that included FSU and ND.
Sometimes the best move is no move.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Some don’t want to blame “the steve” for Wanny’s firing and officially it wasn’t “the steve” but he’s the one that put all that foolish crap in the administrations heads
LikeLike
Wanny did get some good beat downs that final year
I actually thought some of his players quit on him especially that Miami game
Most I believe just got frustrated that Wanny had all this talent and it was being wasted with his coaching
Most believe that the trouble that Wanny’s players got in were no worse than at any other school but of course its big news at Pitt and Pitt’s players must be choir boys
I thought his firing or resignation or whatever you called it was poorly handled by Steve
I also thought that Wanny handled it poorly himself…he was very emotional and hated Steve and that led to some poor decisions on his way out
If like Reed said it had everything to do with bad player behavior, then it was Gallaghers call and not Steves. And Gallagher is the supreme BoT being
Jock got too powerful, resigned
Jackie got too powerful, resigned
Gottfried got too powerful, refused to resign and was fired
Wanny got too powerful, resigned
The BoT always wins these power struggles. Moreover, they will find a way to frame it in order to justify the move.
LikeLike
How did Pitt not go to a bowl game in 1974 with a 7-4 record? It went the year before winning less games in the regular season and went in 1975 with the same record? Odd. Less bowl games back then, I know that.
LikeLike
This was meant to be a new post. My response to what you wrote had a semi-swear word in it and must be waiting approval.
LikeLike
C’mon Tx, Jackie got too powerful and became the highest paid coach in college football history. Ouch, PITT loses again and not learn from their mistakes. See the Wanny references above.
LikeLike
Gallagher was not Chancellor until 2014, long after Wannstedt’s firing.
I was very disappointed in the way Wannstedt handled his dismissal.
Pedersen was the bad guy Tx and Pitt knew they had a problem with him before the Wannstedt dismissal.
And any Chryst haters out there, he did us all a great service by outing Steve to the (then) new chancellor Patrick Gallagher, who made the call to release Pedersen.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was at the USC too Ike . TD Doresett vs TD Anthony Davis…. no patsies in those years but there was more parity , after all, it was was college ball… our boys and region against your…
LikeLike
Right B, I think it was Pat Haden who got hurt.. Davis returned a kickoff for a TD if my memory serves?
LikeLike
I was at the game …. remember the game was close until the 4th quarter … still the final was only something like 17-6. Also remember the trojan and his big white steed roaming the track
LikeLike
FWIW … despite the fact that Sheard threw a guy through the glass door in the presence of 2 Pgh policeman, he did not serve any time in jail, and was let go with a summary offense after paying only for damages and court costs. I was told what happened by the head of the South Side Tavern Assoc at the time, (he got the info from one of the policeman involved) and can assure you that Sheard wasn’t exactly the bad guy here — although of course he still shouldn’t have done what he did.
Nonetheless, the fall of 2010 saw many Pitt FBers get in trouble …. including 2 frosh that had troubled backgrounds and never should have been brought in. That also was the year after the recruiting budget was slashed and only 2 Floridians committed.
This is just another chapter of the Pitt admin not having a clear vision of what it wants which has been an ongoing thing for decades. Obviously, DA Pederson and Prez Nordy made an effort to put image above W/L and the effect of that is still felt.
It could have been worse. Can you imagine if PSU wasn’t hit with the sanctions and Pitt wouldn’t have gotten Dorian Johnson, Tyler Boyd and a few other highly rated players who were initially rumored as PSU leans?
LikeLike
I heard the policeman assisted in the pushing through the glass door. Also, Sheard was intervening on the behalf of someone being accosted. Yeah, wrong place at the wrong time for sure and he shouldn’t have been involved but it wasn’t enough to have his coach fired.
LikeLike
Pitt played a tough game against USC that year (73?). John McKay (USC coach) said something like: We were moving up and down the field and yet every time I looked at the scoreboard we were losing. Pitt just didn’t have the horses to finish out with the win. I think that was Majors first year.
LikeLike
it was Majors’ 2nd year (74) and Pitt was ranked above USC going into the game. Pitt won its 1st two at FSU and GT. Then it lost to USC at home and at UNC (of course)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Pittsburgh_Panthers_football_team
LikeLike
Oops, the USC game was ’74, Majors’ and TD’s second year.
LikeLike
That’s ok Larry, it was only a mere 45 years ago. Do you think we are getting old? I guess the first step is to still be here to remember.
LikeLiked by 1 person
How can anything be worst than destroying your own OCS?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Lot of good and bad memories mentioned here. Interesting to look at Pitt by the decades.
My life on campus coincided with Dan72 and I stuck around for two more years of grad school,
so I got to witness and enjoy some of the most amazing turn-a- rounds in sports history.
When I enrolled, Pitt was a laughingstock in sports as were the Steelers, the Pirates weren’t much better.
Honestly, at the time no one cared, it was a big joke. As an athlete that came from a school that valued sports, it was an adjustment for me. I have told the story before about witnessing empty whiskey bottles raining down on the players exiting the field after another dismal performance. And another about sneaking a half barrel into the stadium as a fraternity pledge. Also climbing to the top of the goal posts when the team entered the field, back then all the frats had their signs on the field as the players entered the stadium. It was pretty loose back then. Only a few thousand spectators for some games.
Then the tide changed dramatically. In 1971 the Pirates won the World Series and there was the biggest celebration on Forbes Ave. that I have ever seen. It was incredible. The Steelers drafted Joe Greene in ’69 and changed Pittsburgh forever. Somewhat more quietly Pitt hired a coach who recruited Billy Knight and implemented the amoeba defense with a bunch of local kids and gave Pitt its first taste of winning anything in a very long time. When I say quietly, most of the student body didn’t know about it or even care.
Then a real miracle happened in my senior year, Johnny Majors and Jackie Sherrill convinced Tony Dorsett to come to Pitt along with about a 100 other recruits, but make no mistake Dorsett is the one that deserves a statue to be erected. From the first time he touched the ball and ran student body right everyone knew we were seeing greatness.
I also remember the previous spring when Majors was working out the the existing players in Fitzgerald Field House in a most furious manner the likes I had never seen with guys dropping like flies. A Major change was happening.
The rest is History, we had about 10 great years of football. So I went from watching Greg Pruitt running around Pitt Stadium unobstructed to Tony D. doing the same. Then the greatness of the Marino years.
This is why I get so frustrated with Narduzzi’s recruiting. It takes great players to make great teams and quite a few. I have been fortunate to see many over the years in Pittsburgh. Hoping I live long enough to see a few more at Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
GC, while PN certainly had a poor recruiting year and can do better, he or any other coach will not be able to ever recruit a class like those brought in back in the 70s. Those days are long gone.
LikeLike
No doubt that is true, but is it too much to ask for a couple elite players?
Haven’t had any since Conner, Boyd and AD. Just about every Pitt coach has brought in a few.
Revis, Fitz, Shady etc. Narduzzi has pretty much struck out so far. Whitehead the closest maybe O’Neil, but they were originally recruited by Chryst. I think he has recruited many very good players but is yet to recruit a great player. There may be some on the roster, time will tell, but odds are no.
LikeLike
gc and with all due respect buddy. We don’t know if there is a future star on PITT’s roster right now? Next few years will be very telling though.
LikeLike
Remember Bozik wanted to tear Pitt down and build a domed stadium back in the early 80’s. The BoT wouldnt allow him. So Pitt Stadium was essentially neglected for the next 20 years.
The seeds of Pitt’s destruction were planted right after Johnny won the championship. That really perturbed JoePa because he wanted to do it first. Joe became further infuriated and jealous of Pitt’s success with Jackie. He saw how successful the Golden Panthers were. So knowing that he couldnt beat Pitt on the field, he decided to covertly beat Pitt by installing puppets on the BoT
He never did get his Eastern conference though
LikeLike
Are you wearing your tin foil hat this morning?
LikeLike
not this morning with strong storms about to hit
I’ve attached a link to an athletics committee which is part of the University Senate
Many of this sites questions regarding the fan experience, revenues, finances, fundraising, attendance, OCS, etc could be presented to these members…they all have e-mail addresses
and they have been known to hold town halls or roundtables
http://univsenate.pitt.edu/committees/athletics-and-recreation
LikeLike
The common thread here is always the BoT, and the constant battle between academics and athletics. The academics always feel threatened, and want to keep Pitt in the public eye as a great academic institution. The SI article was incredibly damaging, and whoever happened to be the coach would have been canned.
LikeLiked by 1 person
VoR, “the steve” was an un-named source in that SI story. Narcissistic idiots do not like competition. Dave was a threat and fired back at the fake smiley J O …………..Wanny lost.
LikeLike
Pitt certainly does have a history of athletics vs academics and I really don’t understand why that is.
Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame and plenty of elite academic institutions seem to not have that problem.
So why the jocks vs eggheads dynamic at Pitt? Does it exist at other schools?
One thing I have never understood is why with all the success of the Health professions at Pitt, why isn’t health and fitness and athletic achievement valued, it would seem to be the perfect marriage.
Historically, there was always the issue of bending the academic rules to allow athletes admission and subsequent academic achievement. I am sure it must exist in today’s environment, so why does Pitt seem to hold a holier than thou attitude about these things? Especially these days when Sports are big business and the concept of the student athlete is pretty much a joke when it comes to Football and Basketball. The concept of one and done is a perfect example. It is obviously not a problem for Duke a most esteemed academic institution.
What ever happened to the UNC so-called academic scandal? How much has it hurt their reputation? Do kids no longer want to go there? In the long run how much has the biggest scandal in sports history hurt PSU?
Hopefully things are changing and we won’t experience the roller coaster affect of alternating commitment levels to our teams. Joining the ACC should be positive in that respect. The level of competition with our new peers is more visible and justifiable.
Hopefully we can put the poor hires of Freddy Kruger, High Octane, and Stallings far into the rear view mirror. Unfortunately they are still there to remind us how bad things can get and how quickly things can go very wrong.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I credit the PITT administration for recognizing that they are not UNC. Cheaters are going to cheat, Haters are going to hate, Lovers are going to love and PITT fans will always get the brown end of the stick.
LikeLike
I think the difference between the way athletics are treated at Pitt and they way they are treated at the schools you mention (Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame, etc.) comes down to the national perception of those schools and how secure administrators at those universities are about the prestige of their schools. Stanford, Duke, and Notre Dame know that (deserved or not) their academic reputation is unassailable and any scandal or controversy with the athletics program isn’t going to change that. Conversely, Pitt’s leaders are insecure about the way the school is perceived academically (in a good light, but probably seen as a couple tiers below the universities you mention) and feel they have to guard the image of the school’s academic more zealously. This is why they come off as reactionary at times.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s how I see it UM. PITT is like the poster child waiting to happen if they go rogue.
LikeLiked by 1 person
some accountant please help me understand
Pitt reported $89M in revenues but I see a separate figure of $19M included
I believe that all or some of that is the subsidy
Expenses are $89M
https://pittsburghpanthers.com/sports/2018/10/31/eada-report.aspx
LikeLike
Calling Richard!!!!!!!!! . ….. …. Hello
LikeLike
$19MM is “revenue not related to a specific team”. Not sure that it would be shirt/gear sales or even grants/donations/ACC $, but I guess it could be…
Total expenses of $89MM might include non-cash expenses like depreciation. It probably includes amortization of a certain Bball coach’s buyout. Operating expenses were much lower and may be more indicative of the actual cost of athletics (though this is purely a guess).
I’m not an accountant. And I don’t play one on TV.
LikeLiked by 1 person
operating was ‘game day’ related expenses so the low figure makes sense
its also unclear how the acc money ($27M) is distributed as revenue particularly across programs
but you’re right, ‘revenue not related’ is a catch all category
only Pitt knows
LikeLike
ACC commish John Swofford is a UNC alum … that’s what happened to the UNC scandal. That and the fact they are UNC.
LikeLike
Looks like OSU having a scandal
LikeLike
i first heard when several wrestlers came forward. and one of their former coaches, who may have known, is now a US congressman from Ohio
https://www.columbusjewishnews.com/news/local_news/osu-investigation-doctor-strauss-abused-at-least-students-university-personnel/article_66861f64-78ae-11e9-a52a-873b19a44f11.html
This is what Pitt and every school fears
But I do notice a pattern here with tOSU, MSU and PSU
LikeLike
BTW GC, what area recruit did Narduzzi miss out on that has turned out be Revis or Boyd? maybe Miles Sanders but jury is sill out. Can’t think of anyone else but may have forgotten someone
LikeLike
In addition to the academic vs. athletic dilemma at Pitt, perhaps a bigger problem is the public vs. private institution issue. For years since the near bankruptcy of the 60s (when the state came in and saved them), Pitt has straddled the fence between these categories by calling themselves “state related” due to receiving ongoing state funding, and that designation implies there is some kind of responsibility to the public that supports Pitt with state tax dollars. They cannot put too much operating money into athletics without the public crying out that tuition costs should be lower, or that as a public institution they should be giving more scholarships to low income applicants.
Colleges such as Pedo get around it by packing in 100,000 fans per football game, and claiming that athletics are self supporting. As mentioned earlier, the Golden Panthers helped to offset the cost gap between athletic originated revenues and the actual costs (mostly for football). Disbanding the GP really hurt and began the process of cutting athletic related expenditures.
The next step back to prominence requires that the GP be re-instituted as a fund raising arm for Pitt athletics. The Pitt football coach is the highest paid employee at Pitt. If they could take his salary off the college books by having GP pay for it, there would be less negative publicity.
LikeLiked by 1 person
less negative publicity and more accountability for the AD to properly structure the contracts
Capel and Narduzzi make over $6M between them; would love to know the bonus and incentive language
And then we have Pitt waiving Dixon’s buyout and being stuck with a high percentage of what was owed to KS (buyout was probably close to $8M)
I’d argue there would be better fiduciary responsibility under this ‘donation’ structure
Pitt’s operating budget is subsidized by about 15% from the Commonwealth. So as a state related entity, Pitt receives roughly $140M per year. If they were to go private, they would have to raise tuition and/or cut programs to remain solvent.
Pitt has far too many academic and athletic programs as is. Going private would force Pitt into thinking more like a business. And thats probably a good thing. Welfare from the state makes educators lazy and stupid. Just like that ACC check stifles the innovation needed to generate higher revenues and the fiscal discipline to run a balanced budget.
Penn State makes a profit each year in sports that they bank and use for investments or a rainy day. I doubt Pitt will ever make a sizable profit but they sure could at least breakeven. The cumulative athletic deficits over the past 20 years is probably north of $150M.
Talk about changing the culture. Going private most definitely would. And I think for the better.
LikeLike
Agreed, Tex, but don’t you agree that re-instituting the Golden Panthers as a vehicle for channeling private donations to Pitt athletics (under strict controls, of course) would help to get them on a more level playing field? I don’t know if there are records of how many top programs have private funding sources, but I’ll bet there are many.
LikeLike
yes I do.
it could help alleviate some of Pitt’s revenue issue
and it would bring in new supporters with new ideas
new blood is always good
but yes, you’d also have to make sure that blood doesnt get contaminated
LikeLike
Pitt baseball beat #6 GT today – SS Yanni with 3 home runs and a saxophone riff.
H2P!
LikeLiked by 2 people
MM,
Thank you for the informative article. However, I must strongly disagree with your terminology in using “pessimists” and “optimists” in describing POVers. You are calling me a pessimist, which is quite amusing being as NO ONE has EVER used this term to describe me. Spend 5 minutes with me in person and you will see what I mean. If I’m anything, I’m a realist. I simply look at the facts and make a termination of what is real and what is fake. As you have no doubt observed I do not comment on this blog any longer, nor do many other realistic minded people. Why you ask? Well ironically because the so called “optimists” have run many of us off of the POV. And like most, I simply have lost the will to share my fair minded conclusions on this blog. So, I will continue not to get involved with th POV any longer. Thank you for listening. Sincerely,
Pittman4ever
LikeLike
c’mon, we all think we are realists
LikeLiked by 1 person
pittman4ever, the only reason you ran off was probably because not many agree with your realistic pessimistic views and you felt abandoned. We had a few posters late last year that also ran away from the POV when it was pretty clear that the Pitt FB team was about to win the Coastal division. That scenario also didn’t coincide with their previous views on the Pitt FB team going into last season. Running away and hiding is a perfectly appropriate decision when faced with situations you would rather not like to have to comment on.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jrn You bragging about a garbage coastal is the comical part. What a joke. Embarrassing you are bragging about that with a .500 record and losing to a Stanford team with 6 starters skipping the game.
LikeLike
Get real realist
LikeLike
Couple things:
Did Mike mention any names? Did he mention your name Jim?
Many? 3 or 4 from your email chitter chatter gossip group.
You ran away, No one has the power to “run anyone way”
LikeLike
some of us are chained dogs (I speak for myself)
LikeLike
Give me a break pittman4ever. Nobody ran anyone off.
LikeLike
they are only labels to me
i take pride in my real pessimist side
just my nature to see what is wrong before i see what is working
i do my best to stay balanced and not overly critical
what is real or fake can be subjective sometimes
i like the facts because they should be undeniable unless twisted
hence, its often difficult to get the truth
would love to see an article about fact vs opinion…hint hint Mike
for instance, it is only an opinion that overall sports at Pitt is mediocre
but i sure could pull out some facts that ‘prove’ Pitt is mediocre (i.e. Directors Cup rankings)
but someone could define things differently and point to clean programs, GPA’s, graduation rates, etc
then there are some facts like Pitt’s revenue, Pitt’s operating deficit, attendance(?), etc
but even these facts are tough to find and sometimes tough to explain
lastly, drinking Pitt’s Koolaid in moderation wont kill you. I spike mine with Gin anyways.
Koolaid vs Piss and Vinegar. To each his own.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Kool-Aide mixed with Piss and Vinegar produces a very nice PA Bourbon
LikeLiked by 3 people
An example of the dumb back and forth between the “realists” and the “optimists…”
Someone brings up a player or position group. The “realists” say something like, “if Narduzzi could recruit we would have talent at that position. Said player is not going to help us win 10 games in a season. We need 4 star players etc.” Then the “optimists” call out that comment and the discussion devolves from there into the “optimists ” versus the “realists.” I am guilty of getting into these stupid back and forth discussions. They are pointless and get away from having good discussions on this site. Sadly these back and forth discussions occur all the time but nobody’s opinion changes one bit either way.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The answer is………. There is very rarely a real realist. There is almost always a bias and usually it’s directed toward the negative side. Look it up.
LikeLike
but Pittman2003 realist = pessimistic, look it up. There is a strong lean that is obvious to the naked eye.
LikeLike
Had a great time today at the Pitt Celebrity Golf Outing. Major Majors and Richman carried our team to 9 under but was a few putts short of taking the prize.
ElRoy Face looked great at 90+ years of age and we were fortunate to be in the company of Dick Groat, Walt Harris, Jeff Capel, Bill Hillgrove, Jim Colony, Tom Tumulty, Tommy Flynn, Emel Boures…
The course has a memorial for Bill Fralic between holes 6 and 7.
A good time was had by all.
LikeLiked by 6 people
so which of them said they’d cut the first check for an OCS?
LikeLike
It was a ton of fun today. And everyone contributed good shots. If our lip-outs would have fallen, we’d have been at least 12 under… Shoulda, woulda, coulda… 😊
Our “celebrity” was former player Chris Schneider. You may remember he was a fullback who played in the 90s for Johnny Majors Part II and then Walt Harris…
We also chatted with Mike Caprara, who remembered us from last year…
Chris, Fran’s nephew Greg, and Richman all hit some absolute bombs off the tee today…
An excellent Pitt event and a fun day. Gotta have a good time in the presence of Lastrow and Richman.
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
speaking of being unrealistic …. ElRoy Face, a reliever, had a 18-1 record in 1959
LikeLike
wwb — I brought up the 18-1 record to Elroy. Brought a smile to his face. And he showed me and Fran how he used to grip the forkball – his fingers still spread a ridiculous amount like some kind of alien. 😊
Elroy said they were having some kind of memorial event for fellow Pirate Bob Friend at Oakmont yesterday, but Elroy had committed to going to the Pitt event. Friend died in February at age 88. Elroy said he felt bad for missing the Bob Friend event, then he said “Then again, Bob won’t be coming to any of my memorials…”. 🤔
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Elroy and myself think a lot alike. My wife asked me about burial issue with me and I told her to do what she wants with me. Also, apparently she figures I’m going to die way before her. hmmm good thing I’m the cook in the house.
LikeLiked by 3 people
an addendum to my will stipulates that I’m to be disposed of in the most efficient and economic manner with no formal ceremony
LikeLike
Exactly Bill. Chuck my old rear end anywhere you feel like it. it won’t mean a thing in a hundred years.
LikeLike
Some have beliefs grounded in an ideology…those won’t change no matter what is presented.
LikeLiked by 1 person
The Barron.
LikeLike
Lastrow: is that golf outing open to anyone as long as you have a team and money to pay? I would have loved to play that.
LikeLike
Optimist – if we woulda got that one first down, we would a won and ended up with 10 wins because we like to project what coulda happened had we only won that 2nd game. That 8 yards passing should have been at least 10, but the refs missed the spot. Our guys are likeable so that’s worth 4 wins right there. Wait til next year…and then the year after that when our starting qb is 26 years old. We should get all our players from the portal, it keeps our recruiting budget in line. We can’t recruit to pitt because there are other colleges, that’s why. We do really good for such a small fanbase.
Pessimist – The opening kickoff of the 1st game goes out of bounds. Same old Pitt. Fire Narduzzi. The curse of steeler stadium. The home of the fighting Eeyore’s. Why would anyone donate to this athletic cluster.
Realist – We are 7-7. Same old mediocrity year after year. Local kid says he chooses academics as top priority, optimists are hurt. Pessimists predicted that and realist have been saying for years that only Pitt values academics and undervalues athletics as part of a college education. We have the second largest number of alumni in the ACC yet our school refuses to connect to that alumni because we bus our fans off campus. It is a shame that we have 300k alumni that can’t go back to their campus to watch a football game.
The list can go on and on…..Worst experience ever….watching incompetency rule the athletic department for 40 years and the administration that continues to sell the “we are competing for championships at pitt slogan”. Well, they didn’t lie. We are competing. We just do it differently.
LikeLike
Huff the third step back and re-read your definition of a realist…. it reeks of pessimism. ” Same old” << That’s a bias statement right off the bat.
LikeLike
Right off the bat? Were we not 7-7? Were we not mediocre. Is there a P5 school that places a higher value on academics than athletics? Please don’t say Stanford. They do both. Please don’t say Duke. They just paid $115M in research fraud fines. Please don’t say UNC. There is academic scandal everywhere and please don’t say Pitt is without any. They have it too, you just won’t read about it, as you wouldn’t read about things that don’t hit national news. Let me tell you dear friend that once you are in the P5, you’re there because you place athletics as high as academics.It’s mutually inclusive for all but Pitt.
Is 300k alumni a positive or a negative? It’s just the truth. Is it the 2nd highest number of alumni in the ACC, YES! Feel free to poke holes in the realist section. Me typing that it is a shame that 300k alumni can’t go back to campus and watch a game is…ummm, just reality, albeit, also, just my opinion.
Now, if you want to say what i typed as the worst experience ever is negative, sure, but it is also true! Just take a look at all the statements that you can put your hands on when we introduce new coaches and ad’s. They all say we are in the city of champions and we will compete for championships. Again, true. We do compete, just poorly. That’s not negative. It’s the truth.
Maybe next year. I’ve been hearing that for 40 years! At some point the fools are the participants that enable the sham to continue.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Huff the Third… it was the “same old” .. imo, that is negative not realistic and not needed to make that point. . Also, when we keep saying PITT ended 7-7 without clarifying that they won the division allowing the 7th loss is a little unfair which points us back in the direction of negativism.
I’ve looked this realist debate up many times over and almost always, the truth is, people who think they are realist are often times slanted more toward negativity that not. No offense intended my friend Huff the Third. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
7-7 is garbage. You guys have standards that are atrocious.
LikeLike
the 2nd largest # of alumni and the second worst donation rate in the ACC
this should be one of Heather’s top priorities to fix
should be, but it may not and I have seen no evidence of turning things around regarding donations
and thats the breadth of donations and not depth
give fans a reason to donate
grow new fans and nurture them
its marketing 101 but for compliance people it doesnt come easy
i dont want to say that Pitt is incompetent but it was far easier to send humans to the moon than it is for Pitt to figure things out
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pitt needs to win big for five years to start getting donations to where it needs to be. The 1990s turned a lot of the then-students’ interest away from football and that is 100 percent on the university leaders.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’m on board with expecting to win big over the next five years. I want a winner, I don’t NEED a winner. For my entertainment dollars, I have been choosing Pitt FB in the late Summer & Fall. But there is still a lot of golf to be played at that time of the year and I am not getting any younger.
So, one scheduling conflict I have had over the past three years is that my company volunteers for a big client’s charitable event – four years ago we had a record turnout at the fundraising event with my employees and their families – my wife and I were there, our marketing team had special T-shirts made and we were “recognized” by the higher ups of our big client (not intentional by me, but I have to say my marketing people were brilliant).
The past three years the event has fallen on a Pitt home game, which I willingly tailgated with Fran & attended at Heinz Field, and my management staff kept the big client charitable event alive & well attended by my employees. This year, we have the same scheduling conflict and I am seriously considering NOT attending the Pitt game. Duzz & Heather kind of lost me with the 3 losses to finish 2018.
I will definitely be at the August 31st UVA home game – right now Tx Panther has that marked as Pitt’s SUPER BOWL for 2019, since he picked the Hoos to win the Coastal.
H2P!
LikeLiked by 1 person
that game decides the season
if Pitt wins, it could be a special year (finally 10 wins)
if Pitt loses, we’re probably looking at another 6-7 win season
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hey Erie, we missed you at the Pitt Golf Outing yesterday! 🏌️♂️
Sounds like your game is in good shape the way you’re whipping those nitters…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Pittman3003, it’s open to all.
LikeLike
Hey Rick, hope to see you there at the Virginia game… mark me down as also feeling that this very first game may be the make it or break it game of the season already.
LikeLike
It is crazy unusual to start the season with sure a meaningful game. Gives a whole different vibe to the opener.
Should be fun (and somewhat tense) for those who enjoy going to Pitt games.
Just another example of the tremendous ROI provided by Pitt football…😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 3 people
has a good chance at being more exciting than any home Steeler game this year
LikeLiked by 1 person
Right John I agree. I think the game will be well attended or at least I hope it is.
LikeLike
Hope is not a plan (and has been said on this blog many times), but I’m afraid hope is Heather’s plan for attendance.
Does anyone know anything different they could share? Are there billboards in Pittsburgh that us out of town fans don’t see? Are there local TV & radio advertisements that are being aired that may draw bigger crowds? Are there pictures of missing Pitt fans on Fanta soda cans?
LikeLike
Rick, when it comes to the cheap, lazy and finicky PITT fans, hope is your only option for now. Win a few dam games and let’s see how it goes moving forward. That’s why this first game is way bigger than usual. PITT wins and surprises many this year. That’s my plan…….. HOPE!
LikeLike
Pittman2003, if you call Champion Lakes and give them an email address they will put you on the contact sheet. Allison Groat is Dicks daughter. That’s who I contact.
LikeLike
Who the “realists” actually are is debatable. While I more often defend Narduzzi against the so-called realists. I believe I am actually a realist. I see a program that has been mediocre for 40 years. I see a program that has had the problem of being a stepping stone job for coaches for most of that 40 years. We have a coach that has won above average over his 4 years (7 wins per season) while playing arguably the toughest schedule of the last 40 years while trying to recruit to a school with a major fan apathy problem and dried up local recruiting talent.
As a realist I think we should support this coach. The last two coaches left pitt for other jobs while having less success. He is not perfect and could be better of course. And if we were a successful program over the last 40 years it would be reasonable to look for a different coach at this juncture.
I would rather stick with what we have and see where our coach can get us before Quitting on him. In my opinion, I am the realist.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Who here believe they are the REAL REALISTS, please stand up! oh I see……….Everyone can now be seated…..
LikeLike
Here’s a few brain teasers for you all…. Would a real realist actually be a PITT fan? Would a real realist actually complain about PITT football fortunes? Wouldn’t a real realist really not give a crap about PITT football by now? ok, I’m done for now.
LikeLike
Go do something Ike. Narduzzi is low on Koolaid after going .500 after winning 5 games the year before. Keep paying him 3.5M for losing. No one likes him except you and your 3 buddies on here who live in Blawnox. Heather is another waste. Look at the records of Pitt teams and zero fundraising.
LikeLike
LOL Mark, you actually did make me laugh pretty hard………….. You forgot to mention he won the coastal division last year……. with PC’s lousy recruits.
LikeLike
No one likes him except you and your 3 buddies on here who live in Blawnox. << That’s a great line… I thought I only had two buddies on the POV and one lives in Dormont the other in Verona
LikeLike
This thread cracks me up. 7-7 is not great but with context it does get better. For instance, 6-2 in the ACC is perfectly acceptable. So is losing to three top 10 teams and two of the four playoff teams (UCF, ND and National Champion Clemson) … And another top 15 team, Penn State. I mean even Miami was a preseason top 10 team.
Anyone here really think that Pitt was ready to beat top 15 teams after missing a bow the season before. Anyone? Please step forward now. How many here predicted 3 or 4 wins before the season? Quite a few, if I recall.
Pitt did have one bad loss. Against a foil who appears (‘d) to have Duzz’s number. He gone now.
Can Pitt improve? Hell yeah! Are they in the dumps? Hell no!
Pitt should be better. If not, yell at them on message boards more.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Here we go with your usual excuse making just like you had Stallings Back for 12 months.
7-7 is the record. Don’t blame the schedule.
LikeLike
LMAO. Who had Stallings? Not me. I literally just said it was the record and it wasn’t great … But there is context. One of which is being in the ACC Championship game. 👀.
So, you’re one of those people that doesn’t take into consideration context. Sounds like a worthwhile person to debate or have a conversation with.
LikeLike
Context. We had 6 yards passing against Clemson and won a Coastal Lockhaven would of been 3rd. We were the only team in history to win a division going .500
Narduzzi is a bafoon. He couldn’t sell a wagyu steak to a someone for a $1 that hasn’t eaten in 3 days.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I think “buffoon” is spelled with a u
LikeLike
The spelling is different when addressing this bum. Arrogant and never won anything of importance. He is such a loser he even showed off his trophy after beaing embarrassed for the 3rd time last year against a actual D1 team.
LikeLiked by 1 person
He literally won the Coastal. Lol. That really happened.
LikeLike
umm … The Coastal? Please post your definition of nothing so we can keep up. We’re playing checkers over here while you’re playing 3D chess. Give us a chance, man.
LikeLike
Lol. You just said the record is the record but then discount other points that actually happened. Some things count. Others don’t. You’re good at message board posting. No context. Changing the rules. Totally legit way to discuss points. Keep practicing by posting more. I’m sure it will come together at some point.
LikeLike
Keep telling us about Stallings recruiting and how he was going to turn stuff around.
Narduzzi won a atrocious coastal. Wow if that impresses you have terribly low standards in life.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Not this guy. And almost everyone on this board will tell you that. Once again, keep trying. It will stick someday. You only get better with practice.
LikeLike
Lots if good points here..
Pittman2003- You are correct that it’s unrealistic to EXPECT Pitt to be anything more than mediocre when they’ve been so for 35 years. (But it’s not unrealistic to think Pitt CAN be more.)
Erie Express- Agreed! HOPE is not a plan. It reeks of incompetence, desperation and ignorance. Has anyone told a perspective employer that their plan,if hired, is to HOPE to accomplish things? Leaders don’t HOPE to meet goals. They set them, put forth actionable steps, and reevaluate, as necessary.
Huff III- Yep, Pitt was 7-7. .500 is mediocre. Where have I heard that before? The last lost doesn’t matter because it was the ACC Championship???!!! Huh??!! Where have I heard that before? And bowl games don’t matter either? Got it. But be sure to count those FCS wins.. And, in 14 games played, Pitt won 4 games against teams with winning records. Yep. Four. They also lost to a tem with ZERO FBS wins and beat a 3-8 FCS team. So to be fair,Pitt competes in FBS. That is their peer group. Versus that peer group, Pitt was 6-7 in 2018. Pitt was 4-7 versus the FBS in 2017. Yep. 10-14 the last two years. I know, they were the only team to play PSU, OK St. & UCF. Wait.. 30 (or more other teams) also had those teams in their schedule.
I do not HATE Narduzzi. I don’t think Pitt should fire Narduzzi. He’s exactly what Pitt wants. But mediocre is mediocre.
Tx_Panther- Picking UVA to win the Coastal? Ok, I guess. But doesn’t that prove the point of how BAD the Coastal is? Duke, UNC, GT?? Ugh.
MajorMajors- Pitt opens with a “meaningful” game. Agreed. Well attended? I’m not so sure. Well attended, or well attended by Pitt standards? I agree “those who enjoy going to Pitt games” likely will attend.. but that’s only about 25k of us. And while UVA might be the beast of the Notoriously Difficult ACC Coastal (where Champions are made- 😂) casual fans won’t be excited by the chance to see the Wahoo’s. And it doesn’t appear there is any new plan to attract the casual fan. Oh wait.. there’s HOPE!
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jay – Good post, but a minor point — I didn’t say anything about the opener being well attended. I’m expecting a typical Pitt opener crowd – maybe a few more since it’s at night.
All I know is there’s nothing I’d rather do that day than go and root for the Pitt Panthers – but that’s just me.
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Pitt beat five teams with winning records: GT, Duke, Syracuse, Virginia and Wake.
Not murders’ row but wins nevertheless.
LikeLike
Tossing – We went to school at the same time and while you were in the band I actually played a sport. I think I have a little more insight. So tell yourself you didnt support Stallings and you don’t suck Narduzzi’s teet to a losing record since losing Potato Pauls players. Narduzzi has recruited nobodies. Come to the golf event we can keep the conversation going.
LikeLike
UPitt – Insight into what? Context? We weren’t discussing anything else. You said the record is the record but then a Coastal Division Championship doesn’t matter. Not sure what that has to do with your playing days.
And also, to be fair, I thought it was someone posing as you. I agreed to not attack you and I stand by that.
I never supported Stallings. Below are a few of my tweets the day of the announcement. I liked exactly one recruit, Aaron Thompson … and he asked out of his LOI and ended up at Butler before even arriving at Pitt. And I liked Aaron Thompson because I got to watch him play a few times since his HS was down the street from me.
Did I resign myself that Stallings wasn’t going anywhere? Sure. His honeymoon, with me, lasted until ACC play hit, however … in his first year when he took a tourney team down to a 4 win team. I knew from the outset he was a bad hire and any leeway was lost very early.
27 Mar 2016
Entire fan base predisposed to h8 this guy 4 the way he treated @JonBlaze_21. They r hiring a coach we alrdy hated?
27 Mar 2016
All we can hope is @PittADBarnes @PittChancellor are monitoring fan reactions. Complete anarchy right now.
27 Mar 2016
Why does Pitt hate its alumni? @PittADBarnes @PittChancellor
LikeLike
JayTowerA – They were a 5 win team in 2017 (3 wins in the ACC) that improved to 7 wins (6 in the ACC) in 2018, won the division and played Clemson in the ACC Championship game. ONLY a Pitt thread would complain about improvement. If they stagnate or drop this year I’m all for yelling more on message boards.
LikeLiked by 2 people
A. Wrong. Lots of people in lots of places complain about 7-7 seasons. Not just Pitt fans.
Are you AGAIN arguing against a point I didn’t make? Did I say 5-7 to 7-7 wasn’t an improvement? Nope. Never said that. I said 7-7 is mediocre. And it is.
I understand thinking, “Hey, I’m pretty happy with 7-7, considering they played PSU, UCF and ND.” Hell, if Pitt was 8-6 (beating either UNC or Miami) and were anywhere close to being competitive against PSU and UCF, I’d take that. THAT would show me Pitt has a chance to go where I’d like them to be. BUT.. Pitt got embarrassed in those 2 games and completely collapsed down the stretch.
Everybody keeps moving the goalposts, changing their arguments,making things up, putting words in people’s mouths.. and then making comments about others who do the same.
It simple..
-What do you WANT Pitt FB to be?
-What CAN Pitt FB be?
-What things need to change/stay the same to reach the stated goals?
-Are the right people in place?
Ask those questions. Answer those questions. Simple. We will certainly disagree.
TT- you have said on a few occasions that you weren’t upset because Pitt FB or BB met your expectations. But don’t you understand expectations are ONE HALF of the equation.
Example:
1996 Pitt FB had extremely low expectations. The facility was old. The coach was even older (LOL) and drunk. The recruiting was a mess. My expectation was that we’d suck. And we did. Was the season a success because we met expectations???
If you consider 7-7 acceptable and are happy because it’s an increase from 5-7, that’s great. But, by that logic, we should all predict 2 win seasons and then any 3 win season is a rousing success.
LikeLike
I also said if they don’t improve the complaining is worthwhile. I was only stating that even though mediocre, they still progressed.
LikeLike
A realists POV –
There are a few things that HC Jeff Capel and Ole Miss HC Kermit Davis have in common and a few they don’t –
In common;
-1. Both are first year HC’s at their new P5 school.
-2. Both inherited a losing program that finished last the prior year in their new school’s conference.
-3. Both were recruiting C Khadim Sy and were in this JUCO’s final 3.
-4. Both had a slightly tainted past as a HC when it pertains to NCAA regulations.
Not in common:
-1. Kermit’s team made the NCAA tournament is his 1st year at Ole Miss – Capel’s team finished tied for last in the ACC.
-2. Kermit landed C Khadim Sy while have two other recruits signed that were 6’9” 225 lbs or bigger. Capel had no recruit over 6’8” and that recruit still to this day has not signed.
The Pitt men’s basketball program is struggling lyke no other P5 program is a huge understatement.
The above all sounds pessimistic, but if you are honest with yourself, all points are factual and real.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Stats can be a dangerous thing if flung around like that.
LikeLike
Good post Jay. I think pitt CAN be more. I think the best way right now is through Narduzzi.
LikeLike
You can’t be serious.
LikeLike
Who would u hire upitt?
LikeLike
I respect that you believe Narduzzi can lead Pitt to greater heights. I’m actually curious as the the “why” or “why’s” that lead you to think that.
But. Who cares who Upitt would hire? Who cares who Reed would hire?(Trick question- We all know it would be the love child of Bear Bryant and Madame Currie. All of our players would be FB All-Americans and research fellows.)
Pitt pays an AD a significant sum of money to make these decisions. Whether Upitt can come up with a hire is completely irrelevant as to whether Narduzzi is a good coach.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Who’s Upitt?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Jay – The AD didn’t hire the basketball coach. She hired a search firm.She didn’t do it because she understood that she didn’t have the connections to reach out directly. At least she recognized she was in over her head. I am not sure why she gets the big bucks. I wish I could farm out all of my tough decisions and when they don’t work out, point the finger at the search firm and say we will never use them again. Comical.
LikeLike
Reply to myself – she negotiated a contract! No more, no less.
LikeLike
Mike Yurcich is one name of 3-4 I would go after. Offense sells and fills seats and wins game in 2019 football. I also like Tony Elliott at Clemson.
LikeLike
Toledo coach was always my pick
LikeLiked by 1 person
winning the Coastal this past season was like 2004 when we won the BE because of a 4-team tiebreaker in a 7 team league (with 2 doormats). The rewards were losing to the eventual national champ in the ACC title game 42-10, and losing to Utah in a BCS Bowl 35-7.
Even in Pitt’s best year 2009 when it won 10 games and lost a 1 point game to an undefeated team to get into the BCS bowl, that undefeated team (Cincy) got its butt handed to them in the bowl 51-24 to Florida.
In other words, Pitt FB is nothing but a pretender …. and has been as such since the early 80s. And a handful of great games over the years doesn’t change it.
There’s your realism … people. So picking on the current staff which has done no better or worse than its predecessors but with a harder schedule is futile.
What you ‘neo-realists’ cannot comprehend is that Pitt FB of the late 70s is so far in the rear view mirror, it’s totally unrecognizable. Deal with it
LikeLiked by 2 people
what fans shouldnt deal with is continued mediocrity
I think most realize that those elite years will never happen again although there is always that one year when lightening could strike and the stars could be aligned
Pitt doesnt have the revenues to sustain elite status, it doesnt have the culture and it doesnt cheat
I’m personally fine with Pitt not being elite in football
But I’m not fine being mediocre
Only one 10 win season in 35 plus years is unacceptable
Syracuse and BC have more
LikeLike
neo-realist. lol. love it.
LikeLike
Hey Mike…… How about a new rule. No more debate about the imaginary realist BS.
LikeLike
Well ike, I guess I don’t count on your buddies list since I’m an out of towner… 🙂 You have more buddies on this site than you know!! I even count Reed as one…
LikeLiked by 1 person
As far as Narduzzi’s performance, a first year coach being over .500 after 4 years is not so bad for any P5 program regardless of the good (Chryst’s players) and the bad (tough OCS) which tend to even things out. If Pitt gets into and wins a decent bowl this year (assuming 9 wins prior to bowl), no one on this site will be complaining, and the past will be forgotten. Most everyone agrees that this year is an important one, but remember, this is Pitt, and with everything that can go wrong being over .500 at this stage of PN’s career is somewhat acceptable.
LikeLike
Stop that crap big E, you know where you stand with me. I don’t turn my back on my buddies. If you’re down with me than I’m down with you. You inspired me VoR……
LikeLike
-What do you WANT Pitt FB to be?
a team ranked in the top 25 most years and winning bowl games in warm places
-What CAN Pitt FB be?
better than mediocre which is what the program is today
-What things need to change/stay the same to reach the stated goals?
possible coach and other staffing changes; far better recruiting; easier OOC schedule; possibly a unique system or scheme
-Are the right people in place?
If I dont see something this year (min 8 wins includes bowl win), then I’m 100% certain a head coaching change is needed
Is Heather the right AD? You know my thoughts. I have Narduzzi grading out better than her.
LikeLike
Put me down as Majors11 type.
As for Pitt being the first division champion to finish 7-7, I assume we are talking about P5 teams because the Sun Belt Louisiana (aka La.- Lafayette) Ragin Cajuns also did it in 2018. UCLA in 2011 was crowned PAC-12 South Division champs with a regular season record of 6-6. They promptly lost both the conference championship & their bowl game to finish 6-8 or a 43% winning record.
To be honest, while UCLA had a worst winning %, they weren’t at 50%. So, I guess the statement is true if you are only talking about P5 division champs at a 50% winning record.
LikeLiked by 1 person
didn’t they fire their coach for that? I really can’t remember so don’t beat me up. Winning divisions when you have a bad record does mean that you beat teams that were worse, but who cares.
LikeLike
Yep – UCLA fired Rick Neuheisal after the 2011 season. He was 21-30 after 4 seasons.
LikeLike
Number of 10 win seasons since 1990
Syracuse – 4
Rutgers – 1
BC – 2
Pitt – 1
Va Tech – 14
WVU – 6
Temple – 2
PSU – 10
Does anyone truly think Pitt is Rutgers?
Pitt is consistently mediocre.
And not having breakout 10 win seasons have really set the program back
Theres no reason why Pitt cant have the success of Va Tech.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pitt’s football spend is very close now to Tech’s
But Tech has just done a better job recruiting recently (and they are in the middle of nowhere)
LikeLike
I’d say VT actually has an advantage over Pitt in location — as far as getting recruits from VA and points south.
Also, they have a better game atmosphere to show off to visiting recruits…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Jay I ask that because people trash Narduzzi all the time and don’t come up with a reasonable alternative but just bash others who are somewhat supportive of him.
Narduzzi has won more games per year to start his career than any coach in a very long time at pitt. He has played a very difficult schedule and still gotten those wins. I don’t have faith that we would get somebody better with our budget where it is. I also don’t have faith that said new coach wouldn’t leave at the first opportunity like the previous two did. I like some stability right now and given the fact Narduzzi has been more successful than any coach of the last 30 some years in his first four years, I don’t see why we would change course at this time. He is building the program now the way he wants it. He learned under a guy who never recruited all that well but was extremely successful at Michigan State. Maybe he can do the same at pit. He absolutely deserves a chance to see it through . Could you imagine if we got rid of Narduzzi after the relative success he has had? What coach would want to come to pitt under those circumstances ?
LikeLike
Any coach comes when you pay and have a plan. Go get a stud coach somewhere?? UVA did it as did VT in Hoops and Football. God forbid we actually go get a real HC with Success.
LikeLiked by 2 people
So you would keep him if his team won 7 games again this year and lost another bowl?
That would make him 35-30 after 5 years, no bowl wins and no final rankings
If I were AD, I would fire him
The program doesnt become unstable after a firing of a coach that has proven after 5 years to be nothing more than mediocre
Success to me is getting the team ranked and winning bowl games
Any new hire would know those stated goals
I’m pretty sure Pitt could get the Toledo coach for under $3M
I want Narduzzi to succeed. I hope this is the year that the program breaks through. Narduzzi is a good coach but lousy at recruiting and hiring a good staff.
I also think that Pitt is fine with football winning 7-8 games this year so we’ll roll into the following season and probably see yet another 7-8 wins.
I just think Pitt could do better. And I’d do (assuming AD for a day) what was required to get there – clean house, drop TN and Whisky from the OOC, find an offensive minded head coach with head coaching experience, structure a contract heavy on incentives, find more money via donations
LikeLike
I agree with this.
LikeLike
I suspect the big money donors who would have been inclined to assist the FB program are no longer with us – as in dead.
And our play hasn’t allowed us to create rabid Pitt fans in the last 40 years – deep pockets or not…
This is a long-term situation that will only improve, realistically, through incremental steps, IMHO.
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
All fair. I don’t disagree. But if the argument is Narduzzi’s performance vis a vis mediocrity, past coaches and hiring whims of blog posters have zero relevance. Just make your case. I’d read it.
Me? I think he’s mediocre. 28-24 is mediocre. 7-7 is mediocre. Zero bowl wins. Terrible? Nope. Good? Nope. Mediocre.
Fire Narduzzi? Nope. Why bother? Pitt just doesn’t care.
Narduzzi has been here 5 years- a relative eternity in today’s college football. It wouldn’t hurt Pitt’s ability to land a good coach if they let him go. Pitt’s COMPLETE & TOTAL LACK OF COMMITMENT TO WINNING is what would keep any good coach from taking the job. Some serious money, additional increases in recruiting budgets, formation of a REAL booster club and an OCS would make it EASY to find a good coach.
Pitt won’t do any if the above because they don’t care. Let’s all just enjoy the next decade of 6-8 wins/season and our tailgates of IC Light and Bojangles biscuits.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tex I appreciate you at least naming a coach. I wouldn’t fire him if he was 35-30.
LikeLike
thats just where you and I differ
and I think Heather thinks similar to you
i do think whipple will be the difference this year and you’ll see it in KP’s play
but i do wonder if Heather truly is providing the program with everything needed to succeed. She is doing nothing about easy up that OOC schedule. I’m pretty sure Pitt could still use more money for staffing salaries and the recruiting budget. Is she lining up new donors. This is where a Golden Panthers could really help.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I wouldn’t accept 7 win seasons forever but sadly it is an upgrade from the last 40 years pretty much. I am hoping for bigger things this year and next. If 6-7 win seasons continues into next year and the following year it might be time to go in a different direction. I just don’t think it’s in the proograms best interest to abandon ship yet.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Whipple is a Ivy league Old Man. Never did anything and we think he makes a difference? God Help Us. He gets a discounted coffee at McDonalds and Mall Walks in the AM. Same old pitt Hire.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Thanks for the laugh Mark.
LikeLike
And yet he’s still an upgrade from the other guy.
LikeLike
I agree with you. 😉
LikeLike
I think Whipple will be an significant improvement — and I think Dooz has steadily improved the overall coaching staff.
But we certainly need to recruit better. And I wish we’d change our recruiting approach at a couple of positions…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
TX – on your question dealing with the Pitt EADA report, RockyMtnHigh had a good an explanation as anyone. Allocating $ when the source of any revenue or expense is not apparent can be problematic. For example donations. Donations to a specific championship fund is revenue to that sport. Donations to the Panther club (for seating & parking points) is a little more complicated because those donation can be for football & men’s & women’s basketball or any other in demand sport.
Same with ACC $. $ for NCAA BB tournament funneled through ACC is BB. But since ESPN contract is for all sports it’s easy to put some $ to FB & BB & the rest to unallocated.
You are probably right on subsidy being in unallocated. My suggestion is look at other schools EADA reports. I suggest Rutgers & Maryland as they have or had financial problems. Then look at Texas or Tx. A&M for money makers. This will give you a better understanding of how things work. I tried but gave up. Was going down a rabbit hole.
LikeLike
I’ll also have to check out WSU
They run an annual deficit around $10M like Pitt
so they borrow from the general fund
it is considered a loan that must be paid back (Washington State law)
Their subsidy is around 12% of revenues slightly lower than Pitt’s
they are actually on public record stating that the insolvency of the program is a problem
and they actually have a plan to balance the budget by 2023
and then a plan to use the reserves/surpluses to pay back all the millions borrowed from previous decades of fiscal irresponsibility
but part of their plan for increased revenues is via increased students fees. I’d be against that. Recall that Pitt’s sports deficit costs students over $500 per student each year
But they are one school that recognizes their problem and is actually doing something about it
small revenue challenged school like Pitt. They got into this pickle when they built a big facilities project (Pitt’s version of Victory Heights) and then the economy tanked and the projected PAC 10 revenues fell way short. Pitt could be setting themselves up for a fall.
Thats why you really need someone who is more like a CEO running the sports department. And then you need to find the money to hire a real good staff like a COO and CFO.
Pitt is in over their heads and understaffed without the right skillsets. I fear that Pitt will be eliminating programs in the near future and gutting the football budget.
LikeLiked by 1 person
LOL Richard, that’s their whole plan. Boggle one’s mind, if they can boggle yours, just imagine it’s just a shell game??
LikeLike
Actually Ike, it was the lack of guidance (methodology) in how individual schools assembled their reports that drove me nuts. IMO, EDAD is a report that tries to shed light on men’s vs. women’s sports & fails miserably.
I have no problem with allocation of revenue & expenses. At my plant,electricity is used everywhere. In the manufacturing departments, the offices, the warehouse, distribution, But there was only one meter. So I put it in the facilities department & allocated it out. The problem is that allocations lead to a lack of accountability. In other words the use or misuse of electricity became an accounting problem to solve.
Life sure has become easier since I retired.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Former Pitt softball coach Holly Aprile will be interviewed in s few minutes on ESPNU as she attempts to advance Louisville to the Super Regional.
LikeLike
Yep – Heather never was able to keep her and proactive on increasing her money.
Bad Move by her.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Heather thought she knew best. But in Heathers defense, Holly went to just one Regional in her 10 years back in 2015 I think.
LikeLike
Great thread. Many, many good points. Welcome back Mark. Also great to hear from Richard and Jim. Anyone know anything about Emel?
This is the show me year for HCPN. He won’t have the “tough schedule” to defend his record if it is mediocre. And while I was thrilled to win the coastal, to me the memories of getting thumped by PSU, UCF, and UNC are more vivid. And the weak showings we made against Clemson and Stanford also hurt.
It is difficult to defend our recruiting. It is sub par.
But we do show some promise on Defense, and I expect better offense under OCMW.
9 wins is not unrealistic. But 7 is more likely.
Was at Bethpage over the weekend. Any of you who think you are golfers, tee it up at the Black Course and try to break 100. Brutal.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Was there for the Open won by Snedeker. Tough, tough golf course.
Great effort by Koepka to hold on when he might’ve totally collapsed under the pressure.
LikeLike
Played 5 holes there about 20 years ago when I could really hit my drives. It was exhausting. You have to be long and straight on every hole. No wind when I played it, can’t imagine playing it in wind.
LikeLike
Yeah, the skill level of pro golfers is amazing – along with how damn far they hit the ball…
(But think of how good Erie Express would be if he got to practice or play golf every day! 😊)
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
The past few articles have been great. The comments in this thread have been even better. Great job MM and the rest of the crew!!!! H2P
LikeLike
Question for you guys who think Narduzzi isn’t the answer and would prefer an up and coming guy – a “stud recruiter” ( to use one of Mark’s favorite terms) – with head coaching experience and a great offensive mind want to come to Pitt?
Before answering that, consider the following things that some of you complain about:
No OCS, but Fantas and buses
Lack of support of the athletic programs from the BOTs
AD in over her head (supposedly)
AD with a compliance background
A program requiring subsidization from the general fund
A roster full of three star players
A sea of yellow seats every Saturday home game
A declining local talent base, the best of which answers to the call of South Bend, Ped State, Ann Arbor and so forth
Program plays in a pro sports market with two highly successful teams (and the Pirates)
A willingness to spend $3.2M on the HC, but not the $5-7M it takes to get more wins
Pathetic financial support of the athletic programs by the alumni base
The absence of a Golden Panther-like booster program
An unwillingness to cheat to win
11am start times for games against MAC schools
Why would an up and coming head coach with the talent to lift the program on their own two shoulders and deliver Pitt to the land of relevance, ranking and bowl wins take such a job when other more attractive options come open every year?
And some of you call yourselves “realists”…
LikeLiked by 4 people
First, I don’t know if Narduzzi is the answer? What’s the question?
Is the question, “Who can win 6-8 games per season, keep Pitt competitive in one of the worst FBS divisions and keep the program clean?” then yes, Narduzzi IS the answer..beyond that? Who knows.
As for the rest, I addressed each in my post of 8:25 pm this evening. including the concept of blog posters being required to posit replacement names before being allowed to criticize the current coach. Pitt has an AD. It’s HER job to have names. Not ours.
LikeLike
Jay – I didn’t ask for names and I read your post. I’m already aware of your position on HCPN.
I asked WHY any high caliber HC would come in light of those obstacles.
Those who want to swap him out now….Sell the Pitt program – why is it better than other options for these coaches that some guys pine for.
LikeLike
My apologies for the misunderstanding. I should have read your post more closely.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I also wonder why assistant coaches who are viewed as good recruiters would come to Pitt. With the obstacles we have (yellow seats, northern weather, shrinking local recruiting base, etc. ) they seem set up to lose their “good recruiter” reputation.
Which is why I was impressed with Coach Dooz being able to hire Coach Beatty. And Coach Partridge for that matter.
And I’ve seen Coach Collins’ name being mentioned very favorably by several recruits in the last couple of months…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Because one of my Choices Wife is from PA. The other is because money talks. Done and Done. You need to get the old Oklahoma State guy and now Ohio State Guy. Wife from PA.
LikeLike
The money is going to be there at other programs. The wife angle is possible, unless of course she’d rather spend her time in a sunny place with mild winters.
LikeLike
Exactly JoeL, we have the answers but some still ask why?
LikeLike
In looking at sports-reference.com, the thing that struck me was Pitt has won two major bowl games since 1937. Two. In. The. Last. 81. YEARS. Wrap your head around that one.
LikeLike
The university leaders have never cared about that, which has been a problem.
Decades have been pissed away by these people.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That was a great PGA with a great finish. Unfortunately, Bethpage Black is a prime example of how the game of golf has changed and IMHO not for the better. Primarily because of the club and ball manufacturers, American gold now favors who can hit the ball the furthest over all other skills. This way more new and expensive drivers and golf balls can be sold each year. The game has become driver wedge. Sure this varies to some degree based on the course, but yesterday really emphasized that only the biggest strongest guys could win at Bethpage.
This is also why the Americans got trounced in Europe in last years Ryder Cup. The course was set up to require other skills which are no longer required in the American game.
For a lot of reasons golf has been on the decline in the USA. I don’t think the change in the Pro game is helping. The long ball has always been an asset, but other skills were equally important, not anymore.
LikeLike
We can whine, cry, p!$$ and moan about why Pitt is not competitive but the reason is pretty obvious, money.
Look at the budgets of the perennial top twenty and more closely at the top ten in both sports, big money.
The second factor is to turn a blind eye on ethics. How many championships have or should have been overturned by scandal?
Pitt can’t compete in the first and won’t compete in the second.
All the other issues don’t amount to that much and only make a marginal difference.
LikeLiked by 1 person
right now, more money would be meaningful only if you giving it to the athletes under the table. Yes, Pitt FB is in dire straits right now because of the indifference of the Pitt admin over the past 4 decades. But right now, I rate the lack of talent more pertinent than the lack of money.
Face it, there is no reason for the great talent of the Southeast to migrate north to Pittsburgh to play in front of 20,000+ empty seats. And even the pocket of talent of NJ and Eastern PA would prefer PSU or OSU as Pitt means nothing to them.
LikeLiked by 1 person
but gc, I feel PITT is competitive. When a team beats the eventual national champion in that same year giving them their only loss of said year, doesn’t that say something about being competitive?
LikeLike
Ike – I agree but we can play them 25 more times and never win. The stars aligned and Chryst had the talent/studs to make it happen. Clemson was almost upset 3 times that season if you remember the FG Kicker from NC State missed a 20 yarder to win. Don’t put too much into that over the long term.
LikeLike
And again Mark, I do agree with you also. Let’s remember though, it was a Narduzzi recruit at QB for that game. No, I don’t think PITT was the better football team that year but it goes to show me just where the PITT football program is under HCPN. Also, the one difference between some on the POV is that when PITT loses, PITT lost the game but when PITT wins? The other team lost the game.
LikeLiked by 1 person
A coach will come because it is a P-5 job that pays a 5 year contract
So its an attractive position for most coaches outside the P-5 for the extra money alone
Now can a coach be successful at Pitt?
Depends on how you define success.
My definition is top 25 rankings. That means 9-11 win seasons.
What will it take?
The right coach and the right budget
Its debatable as to whether Pitt has the right coach and staff (I believe this is the critical year)
Pitt could always spend more on the program so it doesnt have excuses about not being able to afford talent but Pitt has the 5th highest football spend in the ACC today just behind Va Tech.
I go back to Va Tech. They’ve run a clean program for the past 30 years. They have a reasonable athletic budget. They’ve recruited well but not lights out. They’ve had some good coaches.
Enough money is there for Pitt to succeed. Its been the coaching and recruiting that has held back Pitt recently.
Is Heinz optimal for recruiting – No
Is the OOC too difficult – Yes
Could increased donations and money spent wisely help – Yes
So Pitt is real close. They’ve been real close in the past. Yet Pitt fails to get over the hill. Its almost like Pitt puts on the brake instead of accelerating. Once over that hill, you ride the momentum.
LikeLike
TX, I knew I could count on you to respond. I understand your arguments for “how”. Whats your sales pitch to the right coach, who by now has read about all the disadvantages the Pitt position brings. “Why” someone would come, not the how.
We were at this spot right before HCPN was selected and Chryst for that matter. In both cases, we had to go with coordinators without HC experience. Chryst was far from a stud recruiter (“just offer”) and Narduzzi had a reputation of sorts.
Now, we can deflect on those points by explaining that the AD and Administration weren’t up to the task. Has that changed since then?
Let me suggest an approach – in order – that could lead to getting the right coach:
1) Development of and institutional mindset and commitment to fielding competitive athletic programs (as measured by a top 100/125/150 -pick one – ranking in the Directors Cup).
2) Effective selling of that vision to the entire alumni base, yielding an increase in donations which vault Pitt out of the ACC basement in terms of giving. Perhaps an OCS plan is a component.
Implausible? – of course it is. Do I expect any of that to happen? No way.
Those things would need to happen before one thinks they have something to sell a “stud recruiter”. Because those guys have choices and Pitt isn’t the cutest girl at the dance.
LikeLike
or the cutest girl at the pool. sometimes its tough being Pitt
LikeLike
TX – I could be wrong, but it seems to me when you’re not trying to stir things up, your posts are pretty rational.
The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. TX….
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 3 people
PITT clobbered VT last year and if not for a bad fumble at the two inch should have beat them two yeas ago.
LikeLiked by 1 person
UPitt… good to see you back in action.
Need to water down some of the Kool Aid.
LikeLike
POD – everyone here is drinking KoolAid. Just different flavors.
LikeLike
Couple of golf-related factoids:
—Brooks Koepka averaged 313 yards off the tee during the PGA tourney. Yikes! (Course that puts Brooks in the same league as Richman! 😊.)
—I don’t think we mentioned that at the Pitt Golf Outing there was FREE BEER on the course during the round. I’m not a beer drinker, but the other 4 guys ensured that our group consumed more than our fair share of the beer! 😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Koepka was hit 6 iron off the tee on the 210 yard 17th as well.
LikeLike
Meanwhile Upitt was in Arizona playing in Cave Creek and was chasing Rattlesnakes and balls in the desert.
LikeLike
Hope the rattle snakes didn’t win. We have a rattle snake ridge right outside of town between here and Ligonier where a friend’s family had a beautiful cabin. More like a house.
We use to go up to this cement block company off rt 30 and chase down black snakes, bring them back to the playground and let them slither around all day on the basketball courts. We were advised that this was not a good idea.
LikeLike
Jelly. Looks like OK temps out there now. Played Cave Creek some years ago – nice track.
LikeLike
It is all about money. Why did Pitt tear down Pitt Stadium? #1 reason was the lack of money to fix it.
Why can’t Pitt get elite players? The lack of bag men and the cash in those bags.
Why is Pitt’s sports marketing so weak? Because marketing costs big bucks.
Pitt’s Golden Panthers realized they could not compete financially in the 80’s with the heavyweights.
Clemson and FL St’s budgets are twice that of Pitt.
We know what the deal is with basketball, the shoe industry and the AAU.
I am not talking about winning a big game once in a while, or a lucky season, I am talking about sustained top ten and twenty performance year after year. Money is the lowest common denominator. It doesn’t make winning a given, but you don’t have a chance without it.
Sure some schools beat the odds and have a decent run, but in the long run it is the same schools that win multiple championships.
By the way, the big money schools are all having a surge in facilities for players, again costing big bucks.
LikeLike
That said… UPitt it is absolutely true that Narduzzi’s two BIGGEST wins came with all of the stars in PERFECT alignment.
Penn State 2016 4th Quarter with less than 5 minutes remaining… PERFECTLY thrown BOMB by McSorley falls through the hands of a WIDE OPEN DaeSean Hamilton who had gotten behind the Pitt secondary.
Had the ball been caught by the usually sure-handed Hamilton… PROBABLY game over and Penn State wins.
Clemson 2016… Pitt penalized 3 times for a total of 40 yards. Clemson penalized 9 times for 101!
And of course the Blewitt Game Winner with no time left.
But, hey… a win is a win.
LikeLike
Football is about making plays. How many times has Pitt lost games since 1982 because a Panther failed to make a play? It all started versus ND in 1982 and Pitt players failed to secure the football twice and it led to TDs for the Irish and the beginning of the end of our dominance.
An underrated part of the mediocrity is Pitt players not making plays because there isn’t accountability within the program and the university doesn’t care that there is any.
As for 2016, thank God the PSU and Clemson plays failed to come through. We got the wins because of it. Look at the close losses that year and the plays failed by our guys.
LikeLike
Man, POD, how about making a list of the games Pitt would have won if they had made just one more play.
Why can’t you give Pitt credit for how well they played in those upsets?
No, Pitt won because the stars were aligned! Sheesh!
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Pitt didn’t tear down the stadium due to lack of money. Pitt tore down Pitt Stadium due to lack of Planning. It is common in higher education for Administrators like Gallagher and AD’s to not properly plan for deferred maintenance of buildings. Deferred Maintenance is one of the biggest failures in higher education, period.
It is what happens when academics try to run a business. They don’t know how to do it properly. This is the reason why academics get led astray by AD’s. AD’s don’t know how to run a business either. There is a reason that higher ed is deemed “not for profit” and that is because they waste more money than they can print. Problem with bringing in busineess people first is that the academics fear the gravy train will come to an end. Hence, the conflict between groups. A great university finds a leader that can unite both sides for the greater good. Pitt has not done that. A failure of leadership and the BoT.
LikeLiked by 3 people
it does come down to accountability
what bodies at Pitt are holding leaders accountable
frankly, nobody cares that Pitt athletics is insolvent
nobody cares that Pitt sports are across the board mediocre to very bad (save wrestling and volleyball)
as long as Pitt continues to receive that ACC check, all is good
LikeLike
In other words money. They didn’t put money into the stadium or any facilities because they didn’t have it.
Business doesn’t do it any better, look at US Steel or Westinghouse. They just close plants or go out of business when it suits them. Or in the case of many, leave it to the taxpayer to clean up afterwards.
In business, there has to be a demand for the product or the business doesn’t work. The problem with Pitt athletics there just hasn’t been sufficient demand for the product.
LikeLike
even with higher demand, the ceiling on attendance might be around 60k
elite schools average well above 80k and have stadiums they can pack with 100k
however, a huge opportunity exists with donations
Pitt could always find the money. But what would they do with it? They waste too much of it as is.
And right now, they collect a welfare check from the ACC every year. They have very little incentive to work hard and smart to earn their money.
LikeLike
PITT has been sitting on billions of dollars for years. Plain and simple… miss management. That place was a dump sitting on primo real estate. It looked like the Roman Colosseum on the outside, all it needed was money and TLC on the inside. Shovel out the guts of dirt and create better aesthetics and amenities. It was iconic.
LikeLike
so how can Pitt get to Va Tech’s level of success.
Its coaching, facilities, recruits and schedule
and it all comes down to revenues driving all those things
does Pitt have the money to attract proven head coaches and maintain talented staffs?
does Pitt have modern and attractive facilities?
does Pitt have the money for a recruiting budget that allows for frequent out of state travel?
does Pitt have the right schedule to set the team up for wins?
Pitt needs to address the revenue issue before any of these questions can be completely answered
if Pitt increases attendance capacity from 60% to 75%, Pitt finds an extra $4-$5M
if Pitt increases its donor rate, Pitt finds countless more millions (huge opportunity)
if Pitt allows the formation of a Golden Panthers for more wealthy boosters, Pitt has the ability to fund coaching salaries, some scholarships and even pay for that OCS feasibility study
if Pitt can find some corporate sponsors and new ways to increase advertising monies….
So then the questions become what are the plans to increase attendance, increase the donor rate, find more monies from sponsors and advertisers?
Unfortunately, Pitt tells us nothing substantial and doesnt allow fans to be heard
LikeLike
Here is a counter argument to the “drop Whisky and Tennesee from the schedule” crowd.
Im not saying I agree with the guy – actually I’d rather have a few rent-a-wins each year – but he has a point.
https://www.richmond.com/sports/wes-mcelroy/mcelroy-in-college-football-big-games-are-the-new-trend/article_6ee2d645-1fcf-5f29-86c7-d746bc637ecd.html
LikeLike
Thanks JoeL and I whole heartily agree with the Georgia logic…….. but only if ALL teams adhere to this policy, otherwise it’s a dumb move. (Georgia is in the position to do this sort of scheduling) That said, I think the best football team in the country most likely has won the NCAA national championship each year. So nothing is really broken. Yet it’s the teams like PITT that cannot afford to lose OOC games.
PITT needs to stack winning records and 9-10 win seasons and then they can start to get cocky and play some tougher OOC games. Something has to happen first and playing teams like Oklahoma State did absolutely nothing for PITT football. UCF was just plain bad luck, no one thought they would be as good as they have become. Heather should have got rid of them this coming year, too late. Plus I, as always, think PITT beats them at home this fall.
LikeLike
My thoughts as well.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Personally, I’d schedule two or four-year deals with UConn and Rutgers, play a different MAC team and one good opponent (WVU for example). See what that does for the W column and recruiting then move on from there.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Georgia can schedule these teams because they are elite. And they are now a nationally recognized team and can recruit nationally. Plus, I can see how their spoiled fans would be more inclined to show up and watch FSU as opposed to Georgia State.
TN and Whisky wont bring many extra fans to Pitt. Pitt has very little history with those schools. Their fans are most likely not going to come in huge numbers. Will be another game of 45-50k in attendance and a good chance Pitt loses.
If Pitt ever gets to a point where it can be consistently ranked, I wouldnt have a problem playing Florida or Georgia. Within Pitt’s recruiting footprint and a chance to beat the cheating SEC.
But for now, Pitt needs to find ways to play Temple, Rutgers and Maryland. Cant Pitt swap out TN and Whisky for those schools?
LikeLike
Haha everybody wants a piece of Rutgers.
They have BC in 2019. Syracuse 2020-2021, Temple 2020-2023. BC again in 2022. Vt 2023 and 2024
Hey Heather there is an open date in 2025.
LikeLike
One final thing about the Pitt Golf Outing. On one of the par 3s, if you made a hole-in-one you won a new car.
Well, they must have been concerned with the high level of golfing talent coming to the event (e.g. Lastrow, Richman…) because the win-a-new-car par-3 hole was 238 yards into the wind!
My drives don’t go that far!
We ended up playing Fran’s ball from just in front of the green. Maybe Koepka would have had a chance…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes but he would have snubbed his gf after he won the car anyway!
LikeLike
LOL John……. I could have drove that green……………… ten years ago, maybe more like fifteen years..
LikeLike
Playing Temple, Rutgers, MD and Navy are good OOC games that can help attendance and recruiting. Throw in an occasional school from the south would help. Stay away from mid west and west.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Yes except for the triple option teams
LikeLiked by 1 person
Navy is the team that needs to be on the schedule despite the fact that they chop block. Competitive brings in some out of town folks and gets them ready for GT. Oh that’s right. They aren’t going to be a chop blocking wishbone team anymore.
LikeLike
OK, since VT sees to be the model here for Pitt, you oldtimers will remember that they were not a big FB school until Frank Beamer came. And even then, here are his first 6 years
1987 2-9
1988 3-8
1989 6-4-1
1990 6-5
1991 5-6
1992 2-8-1
Of course, if this was Pitt, he would have been long gone by now
But beginning in 1993, he went 9-3, 8-4, 10-2, 10-2, 7-5, 9-3, and 11-1 when VT lost to FSU in national championship. Of course, they weren’t playing the best of schedules back then … Rutgers, Temple and Pitt plus Wm& Mary, East Carolina, etc … but you get the idea
LikeLiked by 5 people
This is great. Pitt would have cut bait after 1991 for sure and definitely after 1992
LikeLike
Great jobBill, a concept that seems to be very hard for the younger posters to grasp. When did the word continuity get kicked out of the English dialogue? Still seeing Roberto trotting out to right field forever. I still miss him and remember crying when I got the word on New Years Day.
“Clemente spent much of his time during the off-season involved in charity work. When Managua, the capital city of Nicaragua, was affected by a massive earthquake on December 23, 1972, Clemente (who visited Managua three weeks before the quake) immediately set to work arranging emergency relief flights.[66] He soon learned, however, that the aid packages on the first three flights had been diverted by corrupt officials of the Somoza government, never reaching victims of the quake.[67] He decided to accompany the fourth relief flight, hoping that his presence would ensure that the aid would be delivered to the survivors.[68] The airplane he chartered for a New Year’s Eve flight, a Douglas DC-7 cargo plane, had a history of mechanical problems and an insufficient number of flight personnel (missing both a flight engineer and copilot), and was overloaded by 4,200 pounds.[69] It crashed into the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Isla Verde, Puerto Rico immediately after takeoff on December 31, 1972 due to engine failure.[70]
A few days after the crash, the body of the pilot and part of the fuselage of the plane were found. An empty flight case apparently belonging to Clemente was the only personal item recovered from the plane. Clemente’s teammate and close friend Manny Sanguillén was the only member of the Pirates not to attend Roberto’s memorial service. The Pirates catcher chose instead to dive into the waters where Clemente’s plane had crashed in an effort to find his teammate. The bodies of Clemente and three others who were also on the four-engine plane were never recovered.[70]”
LikeLike
Beamer inherited a mess. Narduzzi inherited a stable but underperforming program.
I don’t think narduzzi is at Beamers level.
But yes most schools would have let him go after year 5 or 6. So I’m sure there’s more to the story.
LikeLike
That’s the point Tx. Beamer’s record reflects the situation he inherited but 23-39-2 after 6 years. How many bowl games did he win? I think even I may have been shouting out for his head. But I wouldn’t have because there were obvious signs of progress. It’s about the bigger picture.. and what the options are. Give gorilla hairy arms another year, after-all, we really don’t have a choice in the matter anyways.
LikeLike
Beamer was forced to resign after only winning 7 games on average during his last years. It’s about expectations. Many expect narduzzi to win big. I just don’t.
LikeLike
Beamer recruited 5 four stars in 1994 and 4 more in 1995. In 1996, he recruited 9 four star prospects. In 1997 he recruited 5 four stars and one 5 star. 6 four stars in 1998 including Vick and poof…..
You need to recruit 4 star talent. 2003 = 7 four stars. Typically he got 4 four stars and occasional 5 star. Recruit hard, schedule less than hard and in a couple years, poof 11-1.
Three stars are good football players. Four stars and five stars are better athletes and football players.
@Gordon – the money was there, they just didn’t have a plan. Why? Because in higher ed, they have design and build groups. Once the construction is done, facilities takes over. Facilities doesn’t get the budget. Also, low bid construction contracts always haunts universities. Problem is, noone stands up to the Administration and explains it. The Administration just gets a pretty building. They typically aren’t there when the things start falling down…it’s kick the can 101.
LikeLike
You cavalierly say the money was there. Really? That is a pretty large assumption especially when we know how poor the fund raising results are for athletics. When Nordenberg took over Pitt’s athletic facilities were a disaster, not just the stadium. No real money had been put into them for a long, long time. Trees Hall was fairly new when I got to campus in 1968. I think the Cost Field House was the only thing built from Trees Hall until the South Side facility was built by UPMC. Don’t blame “Higher ED” other schools raise money for athletic facilities. The demand just wasn’t and still really isn’t there. Pitt built a great facility for basketball when it was demanded by the fans and the economics. Stallings was fired when it was demanded by the fans and the economics. You see they do run it like a business. The fact is that there isn’t sufficient demand for Pitt Football except for a few voices in the wilderness.
Meanwhile Pitt has built building after building, dorm after dorm during that period and has grown its endowment considerably. So the business of Pitt is highly successful. It is a national leader in Grant Funding and has highly successful graduate programs.
It just hasn’t placed a high priority on athletics except for short periods of success. Until it is demanded by a significant portion of its constituents that will not change.
LikeLiked by 1 person
However Pitt sports has not been successful if you look at their insolvent condition and directors cup standings.
Pitt is also slow slipping in academic rankings
Pitt also begs the state for $150 million each year or else they threaten massive tuition increases.
They are poorly run and led
Moreover there isn’t sufficient demand for excellence.
They should go private. Cut money losing programs in both academics and athletics. Sell their real estate. Admit more students.
Money is always there. Need to know where to look for it. Pitt has never bothered.
LikeLike
Huff the Third, I consider you one of the top intellectuals on this blog. (you sure make me look like a dummy) but the point is……. Beamer ball did not start until 8 years after he got arrived in Blacksburg. Yet the screams are loud to get rid of Narduzzi after only 4 years. I will have to consult my accountant (Richard) as this does not compute in my world.
LikeLike
Beamer showed promise as a recruiter, that’s why they kept him. Narduzzi hasn’t yet shown he can reel in a big fish. A program changer.
Beamer got 5 stars occasionally………that’s the difference. The Administration believed in Beamers ability to recruit first. As an FYI – the older vick was not a 5 star, the younger one was.
Our guys are good, but when you are shooting for good and hit the target, you are just ….good!
I don’t like good. I want an occasional great!! Give me a chance. Pitt has paid for and received a “D” sports program. You get what you pay for. Welp, gotta jump fellas.
LikeLike
With all due respect huff college football is commonly graded as such:
A – 10+ wins
B – 8-9 wins
C – 6-7 wins
D – 4-5 wins
F – >= 3 wins
So if Pitt’s paying for a D football program they are getting B – C results. That’s called ROI in the business world.
Although according to TX we are paying for a C program and getting just about par value.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pitt is paying for a B minus program. It’s pretty much getting those results. I just like value pricing so to me it’s not a good bargain.
LikeLike
Well there is only one Bill Snyder and he’s about to retire
LikeLike
The Pitt job would kill him
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tx, so why do you blame the coach then? doesn’t add up to me… Hesus, I have to call Richard again. These math question are out of my realm……:)
LikeLike
Recruiting and bad staff hires
If I were the hairy ape with big calves, I would tarp. I would open practices. I’d make sure I had players I could market. I’d start talking about campus.
I’d also not hire retreads and I’d be comfortable hiring people better than me.
LikeLike
I took athletics on a whole, not just football. My bad for not explaining, was in a rush. Being short and concise is not my gig. I’d give pitt athletics a “D” over the last 2+ years, by AD tenure even. Under the previous AD, F. Under the Previous AD to that F.
LikeLike
C’mon Huff the Third. 2 wins in year 6? and he wasn’t thrown out the back door with yesterday’s trash? That doesn’t speak of his recruiting. It speaks of VT understanding you have to stay the course and be committed. and they were very smart to do so. But lets’s kick this can down the road……and start over. Yeah, that plan has worked out well for PITT.
LikeLike
Nobody wanted to walk into that mess. Tech was stuck with him. They had to ride it out. And today that ACC money allows schools far more flexibility.
LikeLike
Beamer got extra leash from the admin because he was a local boy – SW VA down near the NC border. And his personality – the influential alums like Sonny Merryman loved him – was a big factor as well.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Right JoeL, yet there is quite a lesson to be learned there. Take two steps forward and when you have to take one backwards, you’re still one step ahead. That’s my motto anyways….
LikeLike
There are no big boosters that like narduzzi.
LikeLike
I think Aaron Donald would argue that point Tx.
LikeLike
But Wanny recruited him. Narduzzi just doesnt tell AD to leave the weight room.
LikeLike
The Beamer example is more on par with Wannstedt. Both were brought on at their alma mater, took lumps early and started to have success- largely due to recruiting.
The difference? Tech valued football as a way to move the school forward, increase it’s visibility. Their AD and Chancellor didn’t fear his influence on the school- they valued it.
Maybe Wannstedt was too limited as a game day coach to do what Beamer did at Tech but I believe the administration really set back football when they showed Wannstedt the door. And the BOT is just fine with that.
So, we’ve got what we’ve got. Mediocre recruiting. An OOC schedule too tough for our roster. A rented stadium with ZERO connection to the campus (but hey, the over 60 set seems to love the parking and chair-back seating). Thursday night games.. Ugh.
LikeLiked by 3 people
and if Pitt built a stadium similar to Stade Pierre-Mauroy, the over 50 crowd would only love Heinz as a condiment in their refrigerator.
LikeLike
Here’s the thing Jay and I could be very wrong but wasn’t VT one of the the pioneers for Thursday night games?
LikeLike
whats there to do on a Thursday night in Blacksburg?
Prior to football games, it was cow tipping
LikeLike
Thursday night games are not popular at all with Hokie fans. Most don’t actually live in Blacksburg – or their version of Mt. Pilot, Roanoke. They travel 4+ hrs from central and northern Virginia.
LikeLike
Well in Blacksburg, SC, we love to watch the CBS Thursday night comedy lineup & starting this Thursday I will add Elementary at 10pm.
LikeLike
Jay, lumps early? It took him 8 years to show dividends. VT understood the concept of not starting over and over again. It’s a concept worth looking into. (but that takes time which most fans don’t have much of) PITT should explore it imo. Yet I’ll be the first to tell you I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. I just talk.. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Similar to Stoops, Stoops, Stoops at Kentucky. 10-3 record in his 6’th year but still has an overall 36-39 record. But he has a bowl win so that makes him a true winner & the best thing in the SEC since Gus Malzahn.
LikeLiked by 3 people
if pat can pull of a 10 win season (and I believe he can but I don’t have the time or energy right now to expand on why) that will erase a lot of the negativity
LikeLiked by 1 person
Wannstedt was not going to have success at Pitt unless he reported to an AD with a background as a football HC to help him make the right coaching choices and provide input on game strategy, like Barry Alvarez did with Chryst on the defensive side of the ball.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I’ll disagree with you there. Had he let his OC coach, and hired a special teams coach, he would have been fine. His failures mostly came in the fourth quarter- from having his OC sit on the ball and/or poor special teams play. But, that’s just my opinion. I understand other people’s reservations.
LikeLike
No this is a pretty good call. His previous oC’s inability to develop and effective passing game didn’t help either
LikeLike
Jay, you just made my point. Couldn’t do that on his own and needed to work someone who could steer home in those directions.
LikeLike
Sorry – “work for someone” and “him”
LikeLike
JoeL – I know the reason for Wanny’s firing is given as the player’s behavior and the SI piece, but I always thought there was also tension between Wanny and the AD about the coaching staff, with SP wanting changes and Wanny feeling like who the hell are you to tell me about my coaching staff…
And oddly enough, I think they both were correct on this issue…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
I recall that as well. And I agree with you – they were both correct.
LikeLike
When Jeff Long was AD wanny had air cover. It was only after Long left and “our buddy” Steve came back that Wanny was doomed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Different market and history. Prior to Beamer, VaTech football was non-existent. Pitt has a history.
That said, I was perfectly fine with Thursday night games when Pitt played them in 1997. Pitt was coming out of almost dormancy and needed ANYTHING for exposure. There were many games that were not broadcasted at that time and a Thursday on TV was better than a Saturday not on TV.
But, now almost every game is on TV. AND we won some of those Thursday games. And they were fairly well attended. Now, the novelty of Thursday has worn off, Heinz is mostly empty and we seem to lose- even worse when it’s UNC.
In the late 90s, Thursday night games were part of the plan. What’s the plan now?
The plan APPEARS to be,”Just shut up, do what the Bojangles Mafia tells us to do and collect that ACC check.”
But maybe that’s only how it appears to me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Holy cow, the Bojangles mafia must really hate N.C. State because they have two Thursday night games this year. Either that or there AD is a real pushover.
LikeLiked by 1 person
If I read that right Richard, I think that’s funny.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I can’t speak to that.. Maybe NC State draws well on Thursdays. I can’t speak to that.
My point was that Thursday night games are not beneficial to Pitt and because of the ACC contract, the ACC needs teams to play Thursdays- so they tell Pitt they are obligated.
I have dubbed ACC headquarters the Bojangles Mafia because of what I believe is an apparent prejudice against Northern teams.
LikeLike
I think bojangles is out of Louisiana. What you Yankees don’t understand is that there is a regionality to the south.
LikeLike
most definitely
and if anyone tells you that Texas is part of the South, they are flat out wrong
Texas is its own Republic
And its more Southwest or South Plains…west of the Mississippi
And our BBQ sauce is nothing like the Carolinas…and its always served on the side
LikeLike
Texas ain’t the south. And North Carolina ain’t the Deep South.
LikeLike
agreed. Texas is North Mexico and North Carolina is now a suburb of New York and PA
LikeLike
Houston feels more like West Loo-see-anna than Texas.
LikeLike
That’s because you don’t live in the piney woods of East Texas. East Texas is southern.
LikeLike
most Texans think of them like us SW PA people think of those hillbillies in West Virginny. But you’re right, them folk are more closely related to Louisianans.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Provincial, tar-sprayed backroad good ole boys.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Tar babies and their Dookie cousins own the Acc. NC state and Clemson her heard but all the decisions are made on Tobacco Road
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’ve been wondering whether to mention this, but I think I will. I’m hesitant because I don’t think it’s fair to judge a person based on limited interaction – especially when commenting on a blog…
But I was a bit surprised by Coach C’s actions at the golf outing. Now I left before the dinner, so things might have changed later, but from the time we finished the round until I left, Coach C. seemed to spent pretty much the whole time talking to Dick Groat.
I went over to where they we sitting and interrupted to talk to Coach for like 30 seconds. I told him I appreciated the way he represented Pitt and said some other positive words to him. He was friendly — even said “Call me Jeff” when I called him “Coach Capel. “
But I was surprised he wasn’t “working the room,” as they say, (like maybe Johnny Majors might have done).
I get the Groat connection and I imagine Coach has been working his tail off recruiting, plus he just drove 70 miles to be at the event, but it just seemed like a missed opportunity…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Interesting. Sometimes you just want to turn it off, but I agree that working the room would have been more to his benefit amongst alumni
LikeLiked by 1 person
And some people are just more comfortable in one-on-one situations.
We can think stuff, but we don’t know what’s really going on….
(I also heard a rumor up there, which I will not repeat because it was described as a rumor, but if true would make those on here who are critical of Heather look kind of foolish…)
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 2 people
she needs to show me the money and the results
the #1 job of an AD is fundraising
the #2 job is hiring coaches
unless Tepper is about to write a check, I base my assessment on facts and not rumour
LikeLike
He could easily stroke a $50M check for Victory Heights
But what would Heather promise him besides his name on the building
And if he’s willing to fork over that amount, whats the hurt in asking for another $3M for that feasibility study
LikeLike
I’m sure of that John………….. People just move their lips without the facts to back it up.
LikeLike
Perhaps Hardee’s better aligns….
LikeLiked by 1 person
Major. You are correct. I thought the same thing. Dinner was the same…coach just hung with Mr Groat.
My first impression was that he was there to present Mr Groat with a plaque honoring his years as a Pitt announcer.
For all we know Mr Groat is not happy with the way his dismissal went down and Coach Capel was uncomfortable.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Just wait until Pitt does this to Hillgrove
LikeLike
All good players know when it’s time to hang em up. I never listened to groat so I can’t comment. Hillgrove still has a few good years left in him. Lee Corso on the other hand needs to ride into the
LikeLike
…sunset
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’m a fan of Billy H. – that voice is the voice of the Panthers.
But on Saturday, seemed to me that Billy was “…movin’ kinda slow at the junction…”
He is 78 – I checked…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Love Billy and Dick Groat. Mine’s coming.
LikeLike
Well, I came late to this party so excuse me if this has been covered but… I have to ask who is ‘constantly calling for Narduzzi’s head’.
I’ve been a critic of his football work but have not once have I said he should be fired – not once. I have written that if he has another non-winning season to make it three in a row in 2019 along with his poor recruiting Pitt needs to take a long hard look at the situation.
On the other hand I’ve been very vocal that I appreciate that Narduzzi has done a fantastic job with the student-athlete aspect of program leadership.
Best APR three years in a row and…knock on wood…no player arrests for over two (maybe three) years. That’s something I believe we haven’t seen before in modern Pitt football.
I care about that very much and he’s delivered in that arena. Good for him for that…I do wish the media would write more about that aspect of his hire and work at hand.
If he could win 8 games a year with bowl wins thrown in I’d be fine with him…but since his inherited players started leaving the program two years ago we haven’t, and may not, see that happen.
But again, exactly who are all these fans calling for him to be fired? Aside from two or three readers on here I don’t really see that being the case at all.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Reed – been following and actively participating on that thread and don’t recall that you’ve been mentioned. A couple of other guys suggested HC change as a means of program improvement and the merits of that have been debated actively. If that is what you are referring to, then yes, you are late to the discussion and possibly taking it a tad bit astray from it’s proper context. Slow news day…slow time of year and we natives are restless.
LikeLiked by 2 people
7-7 is considered a winning season by most standards. Especially when you play a tough OOC and then Clemson. Only one bad loss and a loss to a bowl team that could have been beaten. No really big upsets either way and a couple more quality kicks….
LikeLike
Well, a winning season is to win more games then you lose…but if you want to call it a good season or a nice season then by all means.
But in that sense then 2007 would be a winning season also with 13-7 in it.
LikeLike
King Pat
LikeLike
Looking at the Narduzzi vs Frank Beamer comparison I wondered what Beamer’s job was prior to taking over at V Tech. FWIW, he was the Head Coach at Murray State from 1981-1986. Interestingly, before that he was Defensive Coordinator at Murray State from 1979-1981 under Head Coach Mike Gottfried!
LikeLike
Interesting bit of digging!
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
defense and special teams is how he made his name
but now the game is far more offensive minded
the game passed him by
many of the reasons i thought Narduzzi was a ‘non-optimal’ call – defensive guy, never was a head coach, never had a strong hand in recruiting, never recruited the south, recruiting was limited to 3 star talent, youngstown…i really despise Ohio
LikeLike
Michael Vick didn’t hurt.
LikeLike
Vick put Tech on the map
LikeLike
Heather is meh to me. What has she done? Extending a coach who won 5 games then 7.
Capel is meh at this point. Need another 1-2 yeara to see but for what they are paying there better be improvement fast. She lost to Uconn and was played.
Baseball and Softball stink.
Lost a softball coach to UL and she is turning them around.
Womans basketball
Stinks.
Fundraising stinks
Uniforms were done pretty good although we look like Mcneese.
She fired rockports which was great but paying 8M.
What am I missing?
LikeLike
Driving culture change in both Athletics and the greater Administration. Repositioning athletics in the greater University as an asset.
I have no idea how she is doing at it, but she’s focusing on it and that’s a positive.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Again, welcome back Upitt, you haven’t skipped a beat. 🙂
LikeLike
Bojangles was founded in Charlotte, NC. Of it’s 600+ locations, more than 500 are in Georgia, NC & SC. Only ONE is north of the Mason-Dixon.
They sponsor the ACC and run commercials during every ACC Network football game. Hell, we dined on chicken biscuits in Winston-Salem prior to Pitt’s monumental Coastal Championship.
Yeah, it’s Southern.. Hence ACC headquarters in Greensboro is home of the Bojangles Mafia. There are TEN Bojangles locations in Greensboro alone!
There are NO Bojangles in Texas, Louisiana.
https://locations.bojangles.com
LikeLiked by 1 person
Haha well you got me there Jay. Excellent use of facts. Must have gotten it mixed up with popeyes
LikeLike
Canes kicks both bojangles, Churchs, Popeyes and Mr. Jim’s Chicken Azzes.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I have one about 7 miles down the road. Nice to know it’s there in case of a breakfast biscuit emergency.
They should put one in Oakland.
Good research, Jay.
LikeLike
When the Popeyes in Oakland closed last year, I thought for sure Bojangles was going to take that location, given the ACC tie-in.
LikeLike
I love when Pitt plays Syracuse and the game is sponsored by the North Carolina Ford Dealers Assoc. and Bojangles. In my NY and PA travels, I’ve only seen one Bojangles in Reading and the wife did not want to try it thus I have still not sampled the official chicken and sweet tea of the ACC.
LikeLike
I see there are many Canes in Ohio…need to check it out.
Thanks Mark.
LikeLike
Bojangles is way overrated for chicken… biscuits ain’t to bad….
LikeLike
Fully agree B. the chicken is meh, but the biscuits….oh my.
LikeLike
I feel like my next article should just be about food
LikeLiked by 2 people
the ideal tailgate food for each home opponent this season and why…
LikeLiked by 1 person
Great idea JoeL…. BTW, can I drop the L since there isn’t a JoeK any longer? Or maybe wait a little longer since he may be risen from the no longer posting list? C’mon back JoeK
Virginia menu… hmm?? … How about crow roasting on an open fire??
LikeLike
you are most welcome to call me Joe. Just not Joe D.
LikeLike
For the UVA game, I would suggest country ham sliced think on dinner rolls (with butter of course). Bourbon to wash it down.
LikeLiked by 1 person
thick
LikeLike
If we are now discussing chicken, I must say that some of the best fried chicken is served at mom & pop convenience stores. Usually start serving around 11am & done by 3pm. I have one less then a mile away. Best was some out of the way place in Alabama about three miles from the Mississippi state line.
Never have liked biscuits. To me, most biscuits have a raw flour aftertaste. But when the stars align, Hardee’s biscuits are the best,
LikeLiked by 1 person
‘Rasin’ Canes’ just opened in Boardman (southern suburb of Youngstown) … 1st exit in Ohio Turnpike.
LikeLike
It’s official Richard, we are now talking chicken.. LOL
LikeLiked by 1 person
to summarize some of the conversation above ….
1) VT stuck with local guy Frank Beamer despite only winning 24 games in his first 6 years, whereas, Pitt let go of alum Wanny after 6 years despite his winning 27 games in his last 3 years alone.
2) while many bloggers and media approved of Wanny’s firing, unknown to them, the apparent reason for the firing was the off-the-field issues despite no NCAA infractions. Reputation was allegedly valued over W/L.
3) after Wanny’s firing, a coach was hired @ $1.4M while its rival located 90 miles south hired its coach @ $2M. Also after Wanny’s firing, home attendance has shown a large decrease.
4) since then, 4 new HCs have been hired (as well as 2 new ADS)
5) the current coach has faced an OOC where at least 2 opponents each year has finished in The Top 20, not to mention that nearly 40% of its opponents finished in the Top 25.
6) a PG sports headline from last fall: Ten years ago, there were 24 Power 5 and 38 FBS from the WPIAL/City. So far this year 4 and 14. This has been the trend, not the exception.
What part of the above makes you think that Pitt fans should expect a 9 or 10 win season nowadays? And the answer is a BIG FAT ZERO
LikeLiked by 1 person
Conclusion — not only has this program experienced only one 10-wins season since 1981, the conditions for achieving this has worsened considerably
LikeLiked by 1 person
the only things that have worsened are the coaching and recruiting talent
Pitt could hire a Jackie-like HC for about $5-6M. Pitt could find the money to do it
WPIAL talent is down but Pitt has shifted their focus out of state. Theres plenty of talent in nearby states and Florida.
And I’d argue at least that Florida talent is better prepared to make an impact since they are better trained and have more practice time. I know the amount of money that Texas school districts spend on football is silly.
Lastly, if you believe not having the Golden Panthers and an OCS work against success, then add those two reasons as well.
Being elite back in the 80’s meant winning 10-11 games. Being elite today means winning 13-14 games
10 wins today get you ranked #15
LikeLiked by 1 person
Idk about you Tex but I would take 10 wins and ranked #15. I agree it’s not elite but it’s very good, and it’s a clear cut “next level” for Pitt
LikeLiked by 1 person
I agree. I’ll take that all day long
LikeLiked by 1 person
10-11 wins shouldnt be so difficult
Syracuse won 10 after 3 years with a new coach
And Syracuse is located in a state than maybe produces one 4 star every year
Syracuse played a weak OOC and won their bowl
So Pitt needs to lighten up on the OOC and win their bowl
And then keep doing this every year
It would also help if Pitt had a QB and was more consistent on offense and defense
go 3-1 in OOC and then 5-3 in ACC and then win your bowl. Thats 9 wins and a possible top 25 ranking
yet Pitt is stuck on 6-7 wins
LikeLiked by 2 people
Again Tx, you’re a very astute fine young man. You have all the answers but you keep asking the same question you have just gave those answers to.
LikeLike
If winning 10 games isn’t that difficult why don’t more teams do it?
BTW, Dino is 18-19 overall at Syracuse and 10-14 in conference…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yet everyone wants to be like Mike….. err I mean Dino? With the cakeesit schedule in the country. Brilliant! Yes I made that word up.
LikeLike
In 2020 – Pitt will be 3-1 (maybe even 4-0) in their OOC…
LikeLike
coaching, recruiting and schedule. Most schools dont have bright AD’s. And most schools dont believe and make up excuses. Do you think Heather really cares if Narduzzi wins 7 versus 10 games each year. She probably doesnt want him to win 10 since it would more mo money.
LikeLike
TX — Since you asked, sort of, I will say that I don’t have any doubt at all that Heather cares whether Narduzzi wins 7 or 10 games each year. Whether you like it or not, 10 wins in FB would reflect well on the AD.
Don’t know where you’re coming from on this — but okay…
I suspect Dooz has two seasons to have a big season and if he doesn’t Heather will go shopping.
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
10 wins would reflect well but it matters not to her paycheck or the schools ACC check. A string of 10 win seasons should help attendance and donations. But I see little effort by Pitt and our illustrious AD to get there. I’m not so sure that she will go shopping if Narduzzi doesnt reach that 10 win mark. Pitt is totally fine getting to bowls and running a clean program.
LikeLike
there is little incentive for any ACC school to try too hard. Wake makes $25M each year whether they win one game or ten. And the ACC wont be throwing out Wake. Coincidentally, Wake is the most profitable program in the ACC.
LikeLike
What about the Director’s Cup????
😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Pitt will finish #64 out of 65 P-5 teams. Only BC is worse. Our trend is down since Heather was hired. At least under Barnes, Pitt had a plan.
LikeLike
But the trend is up, IMHO, in the 3 sports that matter – FB, MBB, and WBB.
The rest might as well be club sports, as far as I’m concerned…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
in football the trend is up by 1 win per year
in basketball, anything is better and there is hope which is important
i do like Capel; might be saying something different in 2 years though
and yes the rest are club or olympic sports which drain Pitt of $500k to $2M each per year
thats why football revenues are so important and donations
heather is putting all her eggs in the Tepper basket
i hope he comes through with that $50M check
it will help pay for victory heights
he already gave CMU nearly $70M six years ago
$50M is the equivalent of you or I donating roughly $300 dollars…thats how obscenely rich he is
LikeLike
I thought Pitt was 65th out of 65th for a long time in the Director’s Cup. I recall seeing that in the past. We used to be so if Heather got us to 64th, that’s an improvement. I saw Kansas State listed below BC so that would put us at 63rd. To me, however, being 109th overall is unacceptable. We’re ranked behind Vermont, Vermont!
https://nacda.com/documents/2019/5/14//May16DIOverall.pdf?id=3606
LikeLike
the final results come out in June. Pitt has pretty much zero chance of picking up more points. So if anything, they will slip further from 109. 50 non-P5 schools have better overall sports than Pitt including Vermont. Now granted the competition is different but this illustrates that Pitt just doesnt have the horses to compete in P-5. Its probably a better fit with the MAC or AAC. It would have more success and wouldnt have to spend $80M each year.
LikeLike
Try Royal Farms broasted chicken.
LikeLike
if you’re ever in the DFW area, this is the best chicken joint
http://www.babeschicken.com/
LikeLike
I had great chicken fried steak at a place next to or near the White Elephant. Star Cafe maybe? I know it isn’t chicken, but it was so unhealthy and delicious, lol.
LikeLike
fried steak is another thing they do well in DFW. But it will eventually kill you. Got to go easy on it. Your soul will touch Heaven after eating it though.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I don’t know I don’t know. It’s just like Cracker barrel everyone fusses about. If I want home cooking I’ll eat at home. 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
Here in South Carolina, we have places that are called “meat & 3’s”. Basically they are restaurants that give you a choice of one of 3 meats & 3 veggies (or for a lower price 2 veggies) out of list of 7 or 8. Some places are great but I have learned not to order stuff that can come straight out of a can (green beans, carrots, corn, etc.) Order veggies they have to put some time & effort into.
Long way to say, they always brag about being the home of great country cookin’ – just like your mom used to make.
LikeLike
LOL Richard, there is some truth to that though. I guess it depends on the family you’re raised in. I was forced fed way to many can veggies. To this day, I wouldn’t eat canned carrots to save my life. They are and any canned veggies are forbade in my house. And BTW, the restaurants have that bass ackwards. It should be 3 meats and a choice of one veggie. I would take fries and or corn on the cob. You know, since we are discussing chicken. Which in my opinion, was the line of the day. I’m still chucking over that one.
LikeLike
Had Canes on Sunday! Always consistently good. The in laws don’t like the local popeyes because they get the poopeyes. Bad visual, butt noone should be eating now. Apologies.
VTech also capitalized on the talent rich state of virginia, when the state school wouldn’t take the marginal athlete students. They are starting to now with bronco.
Pitt doesn’t need to worry about their reputation athletically across the board. It can’t get worse. Local media can’t treat them any worse, but this is where Pitt needs to take a stand when/if/hopefully things start to turn around. That’s a simple explanation from the AD to the media….”when we start to win, and we will, do not come here and ask for favors” since you haven’t helped us when we needed it. You piled on when we were down….for the last 38 years.
I would pass out if DiPaola penned an article about the value proposition for high school athletes to stay home and to stop listening to the garbage from well schooled recruiting factories that tell these kids that they need to be their own man and create their own path jibberish. How about stay here and play in front of your family and friends. Legacies can be created anywhere, but Pitt is home. That is when you bring in Aaron Donald. Use foster and pryor and insert any other 4-5 star that left and look at what they have at their respective schools. I don’t think Pryor is even able to go to OSU campus and surely, foster will not be living in Alabama. It would take work to write such an article, but it would be my challenge back to the media.Need the pendulum to swing in Pitt’s favor and it won’t do that on its own. Also, for all pov’ers, don’t click on Diary High School stories….ever! Ignore them.
LikeLike
Home cooking Ike’s Ike’s and he is a great cook. We gotta lot of great cooks at lot Red 5A…Hey Annie, whay kinda pie is being served at the UCF game ??? Less than 100 days boys and girls til kick-off for the 100th year of college football….
LikeLiked by 2 people
Bernie, are you coming up for it? If so, I guess the answer is Blueberry Pie!!
LikeLike
150 years…Excuse me…I had a flash-back to those gold PITT helmets with the football decal with 100 in it
LikeLike
Right Biggie. 150 years and only 95 days until Virginia. You should give serious thought to being up here, it’s the dawn of a new beginning. It got me so fired up thinking about it I was about to go out and cut the grass…… then I thought, eh, We still have 95 days to go.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ike, For Years it was only 2 trips a year to Pa. I think I have made 7-8 trips just to visit family excluding FB trips… so ya never know with all the medical problems in me n JeanieB’s families… You never know…If I’m called home I will find away to get to “PITT” Stadium and watch the game on the HUGEbigscreen with the rest of the over- flow crowd who procrastinated purchasing their tickets…
LikeLiked by 2 people
Hey Bernie, just between you and I. You’re very lucky to have your Mom still with you and I wish you and JeanieB all the best with the family health issues. I realize now that life doesn’t get easier like we’ve been told growing up. It’s getting to the point where just waking up is the best surprise of the day…
It’s not dark yet…….. but it’s getting there.
LikeLike
2019 Blue Chips per state
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/12/18/16780636/best-recruits-2019-state-rankings
PA had 4; Virginia had 11, NC had 15, Georgia 40, Fla 45 …. but it continues to amaze me how, for about 2 decades now, Ohio has less population than PA but doubles or triples the number of blue chips and total number of FB recruits.
Kentucky, Maryland and NJ each had twice the number of blue chips than PA and Mississippi four times the number. For anyone following HS recruiting … if you would have predicted this back in the 70s or 80s, you would have been ridiculed.
LikeLike
According to that article, only 382 blue chippers. Once the top 10 perennial programs take their allotment (10-15 per class?), that doesnt leave a lot for everyone to fight over.
Rough calculation of about 2.5 BCs for every other P5 school.
I wonder how many blue chippers attend non-P5 D1 FBS schools.
LikeLike
But the other issue for PA and especially Western PA is that according to the numbers, not only are blue chips down, so are the number of P5 and D1 prospects (mostly 3 stars).
According to Mike White’s article last fall, there were only 14 of them in City/WPIAL, which is comprised of about 125 schools. That is pathetic. The good news is that 2020 promises to be better (although not even close to what it was just a decade ago)
LikeLike
Football in PA is basically dead.
Population is down South
Those districts spend big bucks on football
Coaching is better
Competition is better
Weather is better (more practice)
And its a religion
Times have changed
Pitt needs to focus on getting recruits from the South and also needs to invest more money in sports like soccer, lacrosse, hockey, wrestling and volleyball.
So what can Pitt offer a Southern recruit? It aint the weather. And its not the chicks either.
LikeLike
yet tOSU always does well
Coaching and $$$$
LikeLike
In case anyone cares, here’s some info on Coach White’s latest recruit for the women’s BB team. Gabbie Green is a JUCO who has 2 years to play. She joins 5 freshman and one other transfer as Coach White got his first chance to shape the roster…
“LEVELLAND — Already touting Region V Player of the Year and Most Valuable Player of the WJCAC honors, sophomore standout Gabbie Green added another accomplishment to an already impressive resume as she was named to the WBCA All-American team on Wednesday.
A second-year guard from Bellville, Texas, Green has been one of the top scoring guards in the country this season, averaging 14. 8 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.8 assists per game. Green has been instrumental for the Lady Texans, guiding them to a 28-4 record and a No. 1 national ranking for the first time in program history.
Green has scored in double figures 22 times this season including a career-high 34 points on Jan. 31 against conference foe Midland College at the Chaparral Center. Shooting nearly 50 percent from the field during her sophomore stint, Green has dished out 123 assists on the year and picked 67 steals on the defensive end for the Lady Texans.”
I’m looking forward to seeing this team develop under Coach White and his staff. Seems like a good hire for Pitt.
The post player from the Greek national team is especially intriguing… Pitt went far and wide recruiting this class…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Finally, some good hoops news, Coulibaly signed per PGH Sports Now (actually, the last tidbit of news was from Friday, when Murphy signed). After all the trouble we’ve had THUS FAR in signing bigs, I’m going to count this as a positive. Now hopefully we can find one more.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Agreed! This is a positive. There was a negative spin though in the Pittsburgh media stating he signed late and outside the “regulated signing period” and thus won’t be an officially signed recruit until he attends class.
I scratched my head because isn’t that the case for all student/athletes? Attend class? Oh wait, some don’t have to attend class, lyke UNC, Ole Miss and Bama, to name a few…
LikeLike
UPitt, you might be a little “rusty.” Timing’s probably off…NO CARRICK 5th grade art work or “DICKSOCK.” Couple of more practice posts and it will be GAME-ON !!!
LikeLiked by 1 person
JayTowerA..good to have you posting…will have my heavy cooler at the Duke game..will need some horsepower if you are coming…..
I
LikeLike
BigB..
I have (4) season tickets in a pretty good location (Sec. 220- covered from the rain, snow or hot sun). As you can imagine, no one wants them so I’ve stopped offering them to people. I usually go alone. My point? Next time you plan on going, let me know. If they’re available, they’re yours. Free of charge. That offer applies to every POV’er. We need to cover up that yellow.
Well, after some thought.. maybe not EVERY POV’er.
H2P!
LikeLiked by 3 people
Jay, I actually had partial season tickets (3 games) in Section 218 about 3 or 4 years ago … they were pretty decent seats. Haven’t made up my mind how many and what games I’m going to but will let you know (although I insist on paying for the seat) The guy I usually attend games with has a new out-of-state girlfriend and he’s not sure what he’s going to do
LikeLike
Im sure she will tell him.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Did I say that out loud?
LikeLike
he got divorced after 40 years of marriage (and 3 kids) … and got pretty lonely (judging by the number of calls I was getting.) Now I hardly hear from him (not complaining – although I may come September)
LikeLike
No worries Jay, I got my own.
LikeLike
looks like Capel may have gotten a good one here
https://pittsburghpanthers.com/news/2019/5/21/mens-basketball-coulibaly-officially-signs-with-panthers.aspx
LikeLiked by 1 person
A little late to the chicken comments. Gus’s World Famous Hot and Spicy Fried Chicken.
Had it in Memphis. Fantastic.
http://gusfriedchicken.com/
LikeLike
the sides look good. A real good chicken joint has good sides…and preferably the sides arent fried like the chicken. In Bama they fry everything.
LikeLike
so now do we talk about Mellow Mushroom?
LikeLike
there is no good pizza outside NY and New Jersey
LikeLike
Chicago deep dish.
LikeLike
But I do like mellow mushroom.
The first time I met my daughter (she’s actually my step daughter) son-in law & grandkids was the day after future daughter gave birth to third grandchild. After we told to leave, we all went to mellow mushroom for dinner.
LikeLike
in chicago, it is good. But the joints outside dont do it right…way to doughy and greezy.
but paper thin pizza that you can fold and then eat is the best
LikeLiked by 1 person
Gotta get Giordono’s stuffed Pizza in Chicago. Flaky pie crest, great cheese. Most unique pizza ever.
LikeLike
I’m a fan of Conforti’s Pizza in the Irwin area, a descendant of Vincent’s Pizza in Forest Hills….I’ve been on the lookout for a Mellow Mushroom in the Washington DC area but haven’t come across one yet.
LikeLike
Pizza and music, it’s up to the lips of the taster and ears of the listener. Different strokes for different folks. There can be a consensus but there is no real right or wrong answer.
LikeLike
This Mellow Mushroom talk had me thinking???? So I looked it up. Huh? A pizza joint. I’m relieved.
LikeLike
NRS… my good buddy confirms your take on “Gus’s Spivey fried chicken” said it was the best and he’s a Buffalo guy…does Gus’s selll ice cod beer to douse the heat…???
LikeLike
Not sure if they sell beer? I was there for lunch while traveling for work. Had to go back to meetings after.
LikeLike
Cod beer .. bringing you the refreshing ffishy taste of the North Atlantic……
LikeLiked by 2 people
I brought up Bojangles only as a way to disparage our Southern masters in Greensboro.. but I really did enjoy the “chicken talk.” It was a nice, light-hearted discussion- a welcome change from much if the discourse on here, IMO.
That said, I think it’s pretty hard to beat Roy Roger’s fried chicken- hit and fresh from the Cathedral basement or the corner of Forbes and Oakland Ave. Back in my day, Pitt had TWO Roy’s on campus!
LikeLike
Many posters on this site have speculated on Heather and her ability to turn Pitt athletics around. I wonder, have we really focused in on this subject? Some of you have spoken face to face or have seen her give speeches on Pitt sports. But what concrete evidence do we have? She announced Victory Heights, but what follow through have we seen? She eliminated women’s tennis, but was that a premature decision? Any fund raising announcements (besides AD’s donation)? She has already been extended, but was it based on merit or benign stability? MM, maybe it is a good time to examine the situation with a new thread to get the discussion going.
LikeLike
Great idea, VOR. Some on here have spoken to her. I’d love their insights.
One request, however- can we allow those with reservations to ask questions or be critical of her without being labeled “haters” or other nonsensical monikers?
I’ve always believes this to be the key to a mature, rational debate.. “Criticize the point, not the person.”
LikeLiked by 2 people
Barnes communicated far more than Heather and that fan experience thing was his idea
Barnes was on record with a plan to improve overall athletic competitiveness (Directors Cup)
Barnes was on record to improve the overall donation rate and had Bostick helping
Barnes was on record with a facility plan (He did the leg work on Victory Heights that Heather is given credit)
And yes Barnes used his buddies search firm to hire KS and bolted for a long lost aunt in Oregon. He was not perfect but he did communicate his vision much more and laid out his plan in public
As far as I’m concerned, Heather and Narduzzi are peas in a pod. Narduzzi helped bring her in and she reciprocated by extending his contract.
I’ve graded out Narduzzi far better than Heather. My faults with Narduzzi are his inexperience as HC, bad staff hires and below average recruiting. But he’s the best game day coach I’ve seen at Pitt in some time. Just wish he had an once of offense in his backbone. I gave Nard Dog a B – after 4 years.
Going on Year 3 for Heather, she has earned a solid C – but its not like Pitt is breaking the bank to pay her
What is Pitt paying an AD to do?
1) Fundraising
2) Coach hires
3) Marketing
4) Facilities
5) Scheduling
6) Sports Excellence
7) Culture
8) Finances
9) Compliance
Can anyone here seriously grade her above a C on anything other than Compliance?
LikeLike
How bout kool-aid drinker, nah that won’t work either. Welcome to the labeled moniker club
LikeLike
Agreed, Jay. Heather has been on board for 2 yrs now. For those who have heard her speak, are we starting to get a lowering of expectations? Did she come in talking about championships and now is talking more about being competitive?
LikeLike
My impression — Barnes was a talker. Talked okay, but what did he actually do? Only thing I can think of is he hired Stallings. I’m sure he did more but I can’t remember anything.
Heather, on the other hand went after Hurley, seen by some as a jerk but recognized as an outstanding coach. When that didn’t work she settled for Jeff Capel – who then seemed like a shockingly good consolation prize.
And she hired a promising looking woman’s BB Coach, who himself pulled off a coup by luring Coach Mitchell onto his staff – she being a proven winner and experienced head coach.
Okay, so there was no place to go but up in MBB and WBB, but both hires look outstanding to this admittedly amateur evaluator.
Then in the most important sport, football, I have seen improvement — it’s taken time, and it’s a rising curve with some peaks and dips in it — but the coaching staff looks better at both coaching and recruiting right now…
And I think we are two competent offensive tackles from having a damn good team. But i agree that it is time to begin exceeding our usual expectations.
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Nobody here is a fan of Barnes, he was a complete disaster of a hire. Historically bad. Paul Hackett bad. But, to his credit, I believe (check me here) that he hired our current men’s soccer coach, who was an outstanding pickup; I realize most don’t follow soccer here, but that was a good hire.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You cite some encouraging hiring skills, Major, but what about women’s softball, men’s baseball and tennis? I don’t play tennis, I’m not happy that Pitt eliminated any sport.
LikeLike
Well, I just don’t expect Pitt to do very well in baseball and softball. I played at Pitt but don’t see why outstanding players would come to Pitt – it’s no fun practicing or playing baseball in cold weather. And it’s tough to play your best in those conditions. But best wishes to those coaches.
And Louisville softball has always been way better than Pitt softball. Their worst years are similar to Pitt’s best years and Pitt has never approached Louisville’s best years.
Would be interesting to see where the best baseball and softball players in PA go to school. And how many coveted southern players go north of the Mason Jamie Dixon Line…
When I played at Pitt, which admittedly was many moons ago, there was no real baseball recruiting except recruiting to get the best players who were students at Pitt to come out and play on the team. We had only a few players who were not from western PA. Way different now, but a tough sell, IMHO.
BTW, talked a bit to Pitt baseball teammate and former major-leaguer Kenny Macha (Monroeville area) at the golf outing – he looks good and can still pound the golf ball…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
there are few if any northern schools that make the top 40 in recruiting rankings
most are sec, acc, big 12 and pac 10
from time to time a big 10 school sneaks in like michigan
baseball probably is the most difficult sport to play in bad weather
LikeLike
Ohio state?
LikeLike
michigan and notre dame typically. Pitt was actually #38 in 2018. Then they promptly fired their coach.
LikeLike
Yeah, there’s a reason MLB spring training camps are in Florida and Arizona…
But for us, I still remember batting practice in a dimly lit batting cage under the stands in the Field House. And fielding practice in Trees Hall…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
I have a hard time watching a leader, who makes more money than I do lyke the AD at my beloved school, not communicate their plan and vision for the institution. That leads to confusion among those involved.
Thus, I have a hard time giving more money than I already do, because I too have to communicate to my wife why our hard earned dollars “need” to go the way of Pitt.
Lack of a plan, vision and communication lead to a lack of funding (donations), which leads to a lack of coaching talent (assistants who wanna be HC’s), which leads to less talented recruits, mediocre performance on the field, 40 years of roaming aimlessly, locked gates and much disappointment.
That can end with great leadership and vision for where Pitt could go.
I can tell you that I will be at the season opener vs UVA – after that, there is no plan. My vision is clouded regarding Pitt FB right now, behind a sea of mediocrity and locked gates.
Oh, did I mention it’s officially golf season in Central PA through the month of October?
LikeLiked by 3 people
Big B – will your heavy cooler at the Duke game be full of Cod Beer. I will try one but will have a 12 pack of Yeungling’s in reserve.
wbb- you need to update your summary of this article to add chicken.
LikeLike
Poor communication, lack of a clear vision and not seeing results after 2 years has me somewhat concerned.
What is the plan to increase the donation rate at Pitt?
What is the plan to market the programs, increase attendance and get more causal fans?
What is the status on Victory Heights?
Does Pitt feel the same way about that OOC schedule?
Can Pitt point to any substantial changes in its sports culture?
What is the plan to address the insolvency problem?
LikeLike
Tex
Agree on the communication. Although, Pitt is never going to disclose or discuss all the financial info you want to hear about.
As everyone keeps saying, if you want donations, give us the plan for facilities, etc. It is really pretty simple.
I have seen several universities have news conferences explaining the plan and fund raising efforts kicking off for facilities.
My hope is they are holding up the Victory Heights update because they have to re-engineer it for the OCS, LOL. We can dream.
LikeLike
i understand that much of this info is privileged and is only seen by those in the inner circle and maybe if you are a big booster.
But Barnes actually communicated his plan in public and did a far better job sharing his vision and wanting to engage with fans.
I’m somewhat worried about the complete silence around Victory Heights. The silent phase is not supposed to last beyond 6 months. Maybe they are waiting for that Tepper check.
LikeLike
I was at one of those public meetings that Barnes had in Oakland. Came away unimpressed. Had same impression speaking to him at a meet and greet…
Course he wasn’t here very long to get anything done. In his short stay he certainly did more harm than good…
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Two quick notes..
A. There’s much discussion around the word realist. So on the advice of a post somewhere above, I did “look it up.” To my surprise, I found this..
realist noun
re·al·ist | \ ˈrē-ə-list \
plural realists
Definition of realist- a person who recognizes what is real or possible in a particular situation : one who accepts and deals with things as they really are.
Hmm.. no mention of negativity. That’s odd. Someone should contact Merriam-Webster and tell them they’re wrong. For a 188 year-old company, you’d think they’d be more on the ball.
B. 1618mt- NO ONE is Paul Hackett bad. Well, maybe Ed Bozik but I try not to speak ill of the departed.Every time I refresh my computer, I vomit a bit in my mouth when I see the photo on the top of this thread.
Shame on you MM. That photo should be censored for obscenity.
LikeLike
How to be a happy realist by Anuschka Rees
“On all my other posts about optimism at least one person commented something like: “I’m not a pessimist, I’m a realist”. Is realism better than optimism? What does it mean to be a realist anyway? Although our modern notion of ‘being realistic’ is much closer to standard pessimism, i.e. downplaying the good things and seeing the bad as inevitable, a true realist is someone who makes completely unbiased judgements and who doesn’t see things through any kind of filter, neither a positive nor a negative one. In principle, the realist’s way of thinking should be the most objective one. However, from a psychological point of view, a completely unbiased perspective is neither possible nor productive (at least not always). What counts is knowing when to think like a realist and when not to, something optimists are particularly good at. If you’re a die-hard realist, read on to find out how to get the most out of your ‘need for objectivity’ 🙂
First of all, neither way of thinking is inherently more biased than the other. Every situation bears a million different details to consider and just as many memories to compare them to. To make a completely accurate judgment of any event, we would have to process a huge amount of information, something we are just not capable of. But we can focus on a few pieces of information. Two people are likely to feel very differently about the same event simply because they highlight different pieces of the available information. Someone with a positive mindset will concentrate on other aspects of a situation than someone with a negative mindset, but neither of them are necessarily in the wrong. Wanting to adopt a more positive mindset does’t mean you have to brainwash or lie to yourself, it just means you have to focus on different aspects of a situation.
https://anuschkarees.com/…/optimism-vs-pessimism-vs-realism-
LikeLiked by 1 person
That’s a young, German blogger’s OPINION of the word. The word itself has already been defined. Any word can be given connotation- influenced by many of the factors Rees lists above- but that does not change the word itself.
But, if a German self-help blogger says it, it must be so.. In fact, I usually consult young, German bloggers for all of life’s great mysteries.. but only when my shaman is on vacation.
LikeLike
I know the definition Jay and I know that is only researched conclusions. Personally, I don’t like the labeling of any kind weather it be a hater, Kool-aid drinker, realist, pessimist or optimist. Why you wonder? Different circumstances in our lives make many of us think differently in separate issues that come about in our lives. For instance, i may not feel like I have much longer to live. Is that being pessimistic or a realist. Surely it’s not an optimistic approach. I don’t look back much in life I’m a page turner so what happen with PITT in the past is in my past. Yes I like to revisit some of the good times but I cannot see how it’s relevant to what PITT does this coming season.
LikeLike
It’s an optimistic point of view if you are 110 years old Ike. Pessimist says I am going to die every day. Realist says that we are all day to day….like most athletes. Notice how i related your post to sports Ike?
LikeLiked by 1 person
LOL Huff the Third. That’s a good one. Truthfully, It’s not important to me at all.
BTW, sticking with the theme, would you say most athletes are Realist, Pessimists or Optimists? < < That’s assuming there really is such a thing as a real realist.
LikeLike
Mustn’t be any Koolaid in Germany or the term would certainly have been used…
😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
The only young german I want to talk about is a 20 year old hottie with big German Tittens.
LikeLiked by 1 person
dam it whether
LikeLike
Archer has seven starts for the Pirates. The Pirates are 1 and 6 in those games.
Another blunder by Heather! 😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Disney world strikes again..
LikeLike
I hear that Big Ben is planning to attend all the OTSs this year, after going only one time last season.
How in the world can these guys be paid all this money and then not go to practices. I realize these practices are “voluntary,” but that’s your team out there! At least go and root the younger guys on…
Makes no sense to me. Team leader, my butt…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
The Redskins wish Reuben Foster didn’t go to any this week.
As to the realist, pessimist, kool-aid controversy. 60 degree weather at the South Pole is ________, 60 at the equator is _________. Not remembering who you are, where you are at, and the most important factors as to why by many is irritating at times.
LikeLiked by 2 people
60 degrees at the equator is__________ 60 degrees. 60 degrees at the equator is 60 degrees. Those are facts. Whether one PERCEIVES the 60 degrees to be “hot”, “cold” or “just right” is where the perspective begins.
Thank you for illustrating that point. It was an excellent post.
LikeLiked by 2 people
but 90 degrees in Bama isnt the same as 90 degrees in Arizona 🙂
LikeLike
Oops..
I meant 60 at the south pole is 60 & 60 at the equator is 60.
LikeLike
It’s almost the same as the best pizza and best music debate. Trust me Jay, I’ve been branded and labeled many times on the POV and yes, I am the real realist. 🙂
LikeLike
Hey Philosopher…yeah YOU…I am talkin’ to YOU !!! Mr. Realist-optimist-pessimist…!!! We all got some of those three traits/qualities in varying quantities in us.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Biggie, I am a realist, optimist and pessimist at various holes every time I play a round of golf…
LikeLiked by 3 people
“Some call me the Space Cowboy”
LikeLiked by 2 people
Are you sure you’re not the the gangster of Love? C’mon Maurice?
LikeLiked by 2 people
Looks like Duke / Wake for the NCAA women’s golf championship.
Bojangles, baby!
LikeLiked by 1 person
tried to make that last post sound like one of those old Bud light commercials !!!
LikeLike
LikeLiked by 1 person
The problem is… there actually is something called “reality.”
LikeLike
Kylan Johnson, grad transfer linebacker from Florida, is now officially a Pitt Panther. He adds depth to the linebacking corps. Good addition for Narduzzi.
LikeLiked by 1 person
From Dallas where he was a QB in high school. Are we sure he’s not competing for QB? 🤠
LikeLike
Yee haw!
LikeLike
here is some Realism for you all … direct from the horse’s mouth (Capel)
Kene Chukwuka (hip surgery) will probably miss time next season and maybe a significant amount of time. All depends on the recovery process
Sidy N’Dir will not be getting a sixth year of eligibility
LikeLike
I think there are just eight players plus Samson George for 2019-20. Capel has to land one of these freshman post players still available and a grad transfer big, which some are still circulating around. If it is just the eight guys to play with next year it is going to be pretty brutal again. That wouldn’t bode well for recruiting in 2020.
Hoops really plummeted under Gallagher.
LikeLike
Budlight commercials are hysterical. My wife thinks I’m half goofy for laughing so hard out loud. The good news is she thought I was 3/4 goofy beforehand. Reminded me of this bit. Take a listen.
LikeLike
Back to Heather. What is she saying about Pitt’s future objectives? Where are the fund raisers? This question still needs answered: Aside from new uniform colors, which is just a sideshow, what is she doing to lead?
LikeLike
after this pre-ordained branding exercise that half of Pitt fans dislike (the over 50 crowd) and the other half are ok with it, her focus is on Victory Heights and convincing Tepper to write Pitt a $50M dollar check which would cover the majority of the cost.
The BoT directive is thou shall obey the mission statement. Thou shall maintain good GPA’s, participate in community service projects, stay out of trouble, and graduate.
Thats why we have so many grad transfers. 🙂
LikeLike
Tex, that’s a rather depressing summary of where things stand. I want an AD who sets a winning standard, communicates that standard to employees and public and has a plan to get there.
LikeLike
VOR — That sounds just like Scott Barnes! 😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Barnes just might have been that guy if he stayed. I dont exonerate him for KS, but he was a strategic thinker. Would he have been able to execute…who knows?
LikeLike
Wow, TX, you’re giving SB quit a long leash there.
If Heather does anything just half as totally, horribly wrong as Barnes’ hiring of Stallings, you would be criticizing her loud and long on here…
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
she already did something half as totally wrong by extending Narduzzi. please dont tell me this had nothing to do with Narduzzi helping hire her. because it fully did.
Tell me 5 positive things she has done in her 30 months at Pitt. I bet you cant on one hand. Take off that glove and try.
LikeLike
Another Nit golf team bit the dust tonight. It was a nail biter though as the team match came down the last hole. My teammate was losing on the overall, but I pumped him up with a plan to win the last hole and take the point. I was dead even on my match and 1 up on the overall. If we took those three points on the last hole (par 4) we would win the match.
The Nits (pedo enablers) had the tee box due to one of them birdying the previous par 5 hole – both hit their drives on the final hole into the rough on the right and under the trees. Our drives we striped down the middle and we proceeded to get on the green in 2, while the Nits struggled to get on in 3. We all 2 putted and the victory was sweet and all Pitt.
Sorry to bore you with the details, but beating the pedo enablers in anything is a great feeling.
I’m glad to see Pitt landed the grad transfer LB from Florida. The D should be solid this season and win a game or two for us.
H2P!
LikeLiked by 6 people
So, you played elsewhere? Isn’t 18 at your place a par 3?
LikeLike
Yes, we played at an away course. Variety is the spice of life.
And 18 on Meadia is a long par 3.
LikeLike
Erie comes thru under pressure.
Nice going, Erie!
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
Not boring at all Rick…H2P.
LikeLike
Way to go Rick!!!
LikeLike
You have become the Nit Slayer.
LikeLike
Narduzzi calls Kylan Johnson “a great fit for our scheme” at Inside Linebacker.
REALITY… The often injured Johnson decided to cut bait and run after finding himself relegated to THIRD String this Spring at Florida.
Simple case in point.
LikeLike
That is probably right but Florida is also a train wreck of a program from a “good kid” standpoint. Lot of stores circulating down here in sec country about a highly rated frost who wanted to transfer to a new dorm room bc his football player room mate was “doing things that made him uncomfortable”. Florida wouldn’t let him. Also a lot of other scuttlebutt about poor ethics, looking the other way, etc. but I agree Johnson for whatever reason was probably buried on the depth chart
LikeLike
4 star early enrollee from Ca. Has entered his name in transfer portal. Room mate charged in sexual assult (female). As a roommate, his name was on police report even though he wasn’t involved.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes. And they wouldn’t even change his room! I don’t blame him or any other high character kid for wanting to leave
LikeLiked by 1 person
Definitely not much of a stat sheet, but should give us an indication of how good recruiting has been if he sees much playing time.
LikeLike
I thought he was an outside backer, but whatever.
And the reality is that both statements in your post could otherwise be true…
Or not… 😊
Go Pitt.
LikeLike
As a teacher I’m always trying to find ways to express my frustration while using clean language. Someone above coined the term, “Paul Hackett bad.” That is now a part of my vocabulary. “Jimmy, that introductory paragraph is Paul Hackett bad. You have no idea who that is so wikipedia it.”
LikeLiked by 5 people
ajs32 – are you still planning to stop by the golf outing next week for some post event fellowshipping with Reed and the POV golfers?
LikeLiked by 1 person
If the date is next week, I am in and excited to meet everyone!
LikeLike
Friday, May 31st – noon to 1pm tee times – finishing golf between 4 and 5pm
LikeLike
Ok. I will be there. See you at the Marriot or wherever the libations will be poured.
LikeLike
Meadia Heights Golf Club in southern Lancaster.
LikeLike
thanks EE for the vicarious beat down of the Nitters,,,keep up God’s work 😉
LikeLiked by 2 people
Kicking a pedo enablers rear end never gets old Rick. You represent well good friend.
LikeLike
EE, that Nitter butt kicking was sweet!
LikeLike
VOR – I dont think we should EVER use “nitter” and “butt kicking” in the same sentence. Too many negative cranial visuals!
LikeLiked by 1 person
EE.and FRANKCAN participants…TAKE PICTURES so we can feel like we were there….I will be at my 3 yr old’s dance recital for one dance…I had a team all set to go and I had to cancel on them….speaking of golf< I went by Albemarle Plantation and watched a couple of Pro 3-somes T-off for the start of the tournament-local Pro-am this week,,..I learned one important and money saving lesson from my 1/2 hr. observing them on the T-box…I WILL NEVER SPEND ANOTHER DIME ON HITTING BUCKETS OF BALLS…old and stiff and will never get any better..like Popeye sez ” I yam what I yam!” Now heading to ANNIE’S cousin Joe Corsi’s place in Latrobe for simulator golf and drinking beers and snacks..that’s a horse of a different color….
LikeLiked by 3 people
Have a great Memorial Day week-end everyone…I tend to visualize small American flags gently dancing in the breeze at our home cemetery…
LikeLiked by 1 person
along the Memorial Day theme..don’t know if you have seen this video…profound moment,,hope it affects you as it did me…
LikeLiked by 4 people
You to Biggie, interestingly enough….. Latrobe has Snow Birds in town this weekend. Hope that the early Memorial Day helps to make the summer feel a little longer this year. I can wait for the PITT games later on this year. Rain rain go away we’ve had enough of you, where are you Mr sunshine?
LikeLike
Pitt just lost out on a four star. He was one of the kids that was supposed to protect the city. Or maybe it was to lock the gates. Anyway, the city has been breached.
LikeLike
This is the best explanation of Memorial Day you can watch….
LikeLiked by 3 people
He’s a three-star on Rivals, correct?
It’s no surprise when these kids leave. The administration has done nothing to show these kids that Pitt is where they should be to play football and to get an education. When you give past players three coaches in three years I don’t blame the kids one bit for heading elsewhere. Throw in a better education at Michigan and it’s a no brainer.
It just makes me root harder for those hometown kids who do stay and play at Pitt.
LikeLiked by 1 person
At least Pitt lost him to Michigan and not the Pedos. He was a 4 star on 247. Had some nice offers and was a late bloomer.
Pitts class is ranked around 70 right now. Continues to slip every year under narduzzi. He needs to start landing some blue chips. June is the big month. Fingers crossed.
LikeLike
There will be some verbals come June 14th during Pitt’s camp. Just like last year when all the Florida kids committed.
LikeLike
The average ACC team has 8 recruits at this point. Pitt only has 3.
If winning the Coastal was a recruiting boon, I’m still waiting to see it
Winning the NC, nets you 15 at this point
Paying recruits will net you around 12
LikeLike
So it’s simple, just win the national championship and pay recruits. Easy pezy. Just tell Nick Saban that. Oh, he didn’t win the national championship last year either despite those facts..
LikeLike
consistently win, consistently pay and consistently hustle
Narduzzi needs help in recruiting
He needs an intervention
LikeLike
being a half decent recruiter should net you 8
why is Pitt trailing 80% of the ACC teams after winning that Coastal?
Because no recruit cares about that Coastal
And Narduzzi just offers and cant close the deal
But June will tell
Can Pitt land blue chips or those 2 stars with offers from Holy Cross
LikeLike
This next class will be Narduzzi’s best. Relax.
LikeLike
What is this statement based on? Have you heard about specific recruits? So far there are only 3 commits and none are highly ranked. Pitt is currently ranked 71st and sexond-to-last in the ACC. Can you provide some information that I might not have heard?
Recruiting rankings:
24-7/Rivals
2016- 30/29
2017- 37/38
2018- 46/36
2019- 56/50
2020- 71/65 (not yet completed)
Everything I read (outside of the POV) is reporting a steady and now precipitous drop in rankings.
Can anybody provide a counterpoint to all of the things I read in EVERY national sports outlet.
I’d love some good news.
LikeLike
Nope, just my opinion.
LikeLike
I only report the facts. Opinions be damned. 🙂
But you are right. Pitt recruiting is not very good under the Junk Yard Dog.
LikeLike
I’m not a reporter 😀. I’m a prognosticator.
This year is HUGE for Narduzzi.
8 wins or better?
Bowl game win?
Win the Coastal again?
It will tell us all if Narduzzi is the man for the job.
It will tell us if his recruiting has been good enough.
It will determine the final rank of this recruiting class.
I am optimistic this is the year Pitt football shines.
LikeLike
you need to be a thin NY greezy pizza and not a Chicago deep dish to land the recruits
or a real good fried chicken with excellent sides…I’m a big fan of mac n cheese
the way to the heart is through kindness but the way to ones soul is through food
LikeLike
excellent facts Jay but they tend to be ignored by many who live in denile and thats not a river in Egypt
2018 was Narduzzi’s only ‘good’ class when nearly half of it was rated 5.7 and above
LikeLike
…if the ratings are even valid…
LikeLike
ike – what is Narduzzi selling recruits on? The crap that Heather espouses during every one of her few public appearances. Come to Pitt and you’ll be part of high GPA’s, you’ll participate in community service projects and you’ll get a good degree. No blue chip wants to hear that.
Do you want to kill people?
If you do come to Pitt, you’ll get your chance
LikeLike
I don’t see how Capel can practice with 8 scholarship players. Walk ons don’t play at the level needed. He needs at least one 2 more recruits.
LikeLike
The Capel brothers will be on the practice court.
LikeLike
ike, its more like easy sleazy…. It’s like a broke record with Narduzzi. POVers hang on every announcement hoping for some decent talent to come in. Football camp is next up to make some announcements. Let’s hope for the best but expect the worst. Jay, things are getting scary, and I think Narduzzi’s future lies with this class.
LikeLike
Heather can always grant pardons to those who kill on the field
LikeLike
“Defend Your City.”
Probably the DUMBEST Recruiting ploy ever. Basically an admission that coming to Pitt is just not good enough in itself.
And YELLOW is the new Gold!
Lol
LikeLike
Is Pitt going to be Pittsburgh again??
Really?
LikeLike
Sorry dudes, been a little busy. Couldn’t help but look at the Pittsburgh Sports Now article on WPIAL kids not picking Pitt. The article was fine. I disagreed with the premise. However, the most important part of that piece was…..the picture! Look at it and tell me how many players look like they even want to be there. Not a smile amongst them. Body language says a lot in my opinion, but you all decide if it means anything to you.
Disappointed that the young man picked a different school. Noticed that there are several ACC 2020 team recruiting rankings with gt, unc, miami, clempson and noter dame in the top 10. Rut roe! We need to recruit better. Go get em coach and AD!!!
LikeLike
Good call our Huff. I added this to the piece. Wanted to make sure you got the credit
LikeLike
Really, a snapshot sliver of a moment and you judge based on that?
Your posts are usually far better than that. Body language says a lot but you can’t judge too much from ONE picture.
Now, let me get back to my mostly idiotic posting. 😦
LikeLike
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/5/21/18631306/pittsburgh-panthers-football-2019-preview-schedule-roster
LikeLike
Good article – the writer seems right on the mark in my opinion.
I don’t lyke the 6-6 predicted record for 2019, but his points seem valid.
The key, unfortunately is Whipple & Beatty doing their thing very well with the players executing the plan.
I’ll show up along with Heather, and hope…
LikeLike
for a better record.
LikeLike