Signing day has come and gone, without the fanfare of yesteryear where expectant Pitt fans sat by the computer watching the commitments roll in.  The fan base has early signing day to thank for that, and this past Wednesday was a quiet one day because of it.

You could argue that the two biggest commits that Pitt trotted out for the media were new Offensive Coordinator Mark Whipple and new Wide Receivers Coach Chris Beatty. Both of the new coaches were at the LOI event on Wednesday, and both DiPaola and Batko have done a nice job of writing up the Whipple interview.

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A few POV’ers not interviewing Beatty or Whipple

One of the more interesting quotes to emerge Whipple was the “What’s it going to take to beat Clemson?” question that he asked the quarterbacks.  It is a question that is dripping with insinuation, especially during an offseason filled with so much angst and so much promise.

First, Whipple was insinuating that Narduzzi wants to beat Clemson.  Well the truth is that everybody wants to beat Clemson, but on the other hand, Pitt does not play Clemson in 2019.  So if we read between the lines, we can infer that Pat Narduzzi believes that the team can repeat as Coastal Division champions.   And why not?  The coastal is shaping up no better in 2019 than it was in 2018.  Here is a quick look at the teams:

Miami – Probably the odds on favorite due to sheer talent, but all bets are off when there is a new Head Coach and Coaching Staff.  Plus, Pitt has an axe to grind and we get them at home.

Georgia Tech – Brand new coach and switching from triple-option to conventional offense means there will be growing pains.

Virginia Tech – Dumpster Fire

Virginia – Loses their most dynamic offensive playmaker and talent level is no better than Pitt.  Plus our zone blocking scheme does very well against a 3-4 front.

Duke – Pitt has historically owned them and they lose their all-ACC quarterback

North Carolina – I’m going to say it here first; I am not buying the Mack Brown hype.  The man is past his prime.  Here is a guy who completely let the program get away from him at Texas despite stellar recruiting classes, and who has been away from football for six years.  His hiring reeks of Johnny Majors II.  Plus with Fedora gone we may finally have a chance to beat them.

Pitt – We’ve upgraded our offense via coaching (I am assuming Whipple and Borbley wave their magic wands here and somehow conjure up a competent offensive line), and we did not lose anyone significant from our defense.  The truth is that any team on this page can take the Coastal, so why not Pitt?

So yea, it’s conceivable that Pitt, behind a re-invigorated offense and a sightly-more-talented and still-manned-with-mostly-juniors-and-seniors defense that Pitt can repeat as Coastal Division Champs.

And if you read the Batko Piece or watch the Whipple interview you’ll see that the players believe it too.

“These guys have got a look in their eye like they’re ready to make a next step,” Whipple said Wednesday. “You don’t know that till you meet them.”

But what right do they have to believe?  After all, if you read all the opinions out there and look at all the stats its pretty clear that Pitt is a mediocre program, Narduzzi is a mediocre coach and the team is filled with mediocre players.

Well there is that whole Pitt-was-the-only-team-who-beat-Clemson-at-their-place-in-the-last-four-years thing.  Yea, people will say, Duzz did it with all Paul Chryst’s players.  (Except for that transfer Quarterback, he was a Narduzzi guy).  Yea, people will say, transfers are all band-aids and don’t truly reflect Narduzzi’s recruiting or coaching abilities.   (They are right, but for better or worse, at least he is recognizing the need and doing something about it).  I for one do not care how the product is put on the field, I just care that there is a quality product on the field.

Now the question of quality is surely up for debate, and is indeed subjective when debated.  I for one would like to try to add some objectivity to this disucssion.  I’ve been doing some reserach and I’ve come up with some evidnece that as crazy as it sounds, Pat Narduzzi is actually doing a better job than Dabo Swinny through the first four years of his head coaching tenure…at least in some areas.

A few of things have to be noted here because Dabo came into a unique situation:

  1.  Dabo took over for Tommy Bowden six games into the 2008 season.  I am counting this as his first full “head coaching” season because he took the team to a bowl game and won that game.
  2. As such, I am counting 2009 as Dabo’s first recruiting class.  Granted he had only half a season plus February to reel them in, but that is significantly more than the 1-2 months new coaching hires have to piece together a class.
  3. By the same token, I am counting the 2016 class as Narduzzi’s first recruiting class.  But even if I didn’t do this, the data is directionally the same, just off by a few percentage points.

So here is the breakdown. I compared Dabo and Pat’s first four years in the following categories:

  • Regular Season Wins – A standard measure of team performance
  • Cupcake Non-Cons – In order to get a sense of strength of schedule
  • Rivals Recruiting Rank – In order to get sense of whether the coach improved recruiting
  • Continuity – A measure of a coach’s effectiveness in hiring staff and maintaining relationships
  • Bowl Wins – A measure of a coach’s ability to win in the postseason
  • Total Bowl Point Differential – because I think there is more then meets the eye in this whole bowl thing.

In order to get an empirical measure of improvement I compared the current coaches’ first four-years’ results against the previous four years’ performance, and then found the percentage increase or decrease vs the previous coaching staff(s).  The numbers were pretty interesting.

Regular Season Wins 

  • Clemson averaged 7.5 wins prior to Dabo.  Annnnd Clemson averaged 7.5 wins during Dabo’s first four seasons.  That’s good for an improvement of 0%.
    • (Note if you drop Dabo’s first “half-season” and add in the 10-win 2012 season, it results in an average of 8.5 wins and +13%)
  • Pitt averaged 6.0 wins prior to Pat.  Pitt averaged 7.0 wins during Pat’s first four seasons.  That’s an improvement of 16.7%.  Either way you slice it, Pat has improved Pitt’s regular season wins by a higher percentage then Dabo.  Advantage Pat

Cupcake Non-Cons

  • Prior to Dabo, Clemson averaged 2 cupcakes per season.  After Dabo, Clemson averaged 2 cupcakes per season.  Net change +0%.  Its worth noting that Tommy Bowden’s last two seasons had 3 cupcakes each.  If you look at the data (bottom of post) you’ll see higher win totals as a result.
  • Prior to Pat, Pitt averaged 2.3 cupcakes per season.  After Pat, Pitt averaged 1.8 cupcakes per season.  That is a net change of -22%, meaning that on average Pitt’s schedule was 22% harder for Pat then it was for his predecessors.  (The reality is that this was weighted by the fact that Pitt faced only one cupcake in 2018.)
  • The bottom line is that Dabo played one more cupcake than Pat in his first four seasons, which basically means Pat spotted Dabo a win.  Nonetheless, Pat still improved Pitt’s winning percentage by a higher rate.  Advantage Pat

Rivals Recruiting Rank

  • Tommy Bowden was actually a pretty good recruiter, he just couldn’t win with all that talent, and that’s the main reason why Dabo now has his job.  Clemson’s average Rivals Rank was 15.3 prior to Dabo.  It slipped to 19.5 over Dabo’s first four years, mostly due to a (relatively) poor 2009 class.  That was a change of -28%.
  • Pat Narduzzi, meanwhile, has improved on his predecessor’s averages.  Pitt’s average Rivals Rank was 47.8 prior to Pat.  After Pat it jumps to 38.3, an improvement of +20%.  Advantage Pat
  • Note that you can slice this a different way, and throw out the 2009 Clemson class, which Dabo only had 5 months to complete.  You would then substitute the 2013 class, which was ranked 14th.  The net result would be a +10% change for Dabo.  The advantage still goes to Pat in this scenario.  

Bowl Wins

  • We all know that this is where Clemson wins, hands down, right?  Well maybe.  Clemson does win, but not as much as you might think.  Dabo won one bowl during his first four years.  That’s right, one.  Tommy Bowden won two.  Net change -50%
  • Pat of course hasn’t won any, and Paul Chryst won one.  Since you can’t divide by zero, Advantage Dabo.
  • As a side note, I took the liberty of calculating the total bowl point differential for both Dabo and Pat over the first four years.  (Total Points Scored / Total Points Against).  Dabo’s average is -10 pts (due to a massive blowout loss in the 2012 Sugar bowl at the hands of … West Virginia).  Pat’s bown differential is -8 pts, so while Pat hasn’t won a bowl, he hasn’t gotten blown out either.  More interestingly, Pitt is trending up.  We lost by -16 pts to Navy.  We lost by -7 pts to Northwestern and we lost by -1 to Stanford (Yes I know this should have been a win…)  It’s a slow and painful crawl towards respectabilty but at least we are moving the right direction.

Continuity

  • For this one I simply counted the number of HC, OC and DC changes over time.
  • Dabo had one change.  He fired his OC after the blowout loss to West Virginia in the Sugar Bowl.  Tommy Bowden fired both an OC and a DC during his last four years, so Dabo’s net change here is +50% vs the previous regime.
  • Pat on the other hand has had a revolving door of coordinators, with a total of four changes in four years.  You’d like to think he’s found some stability with two grizzled veterans in Bates and Whipple.  Time will tell.  You could argue that two head coaching changes (Graham, Chryst), plus a DC change (under Chryst, when he infamously promoted Matt House) would equal or surpass the four coordinator changes under Narduzzi, but I’m just counting things here, so Narduzzi scores a -33%.  Advantage Dabo

 

Total Score:  Pat 3, Dabo 2

Pitt wins! (ha-ha)

Okay, so in all seriousness, where does this leave us?  First of all I will acknowledge that none of this solves for the fact that Narduzzi still doesn’t reel in a lot of four-star recruits, and he still hasn’t won a bowl game. It also doesn’t solve for Narduzzi’s perceived personality issues and Duzz’s perceived issues around hiring and retaining staff.  However, what it does show you is that on a percentage basis, Pat has actually moved the needle farther than Dabo did during Dabo’s the first four years, and farther than I think a lot of Pitt fans give Pat credit for, and that in and of itself is something.

So to wrap it all up, I’m not going to sit here and sing the praises of Pat Narduzzi.  He’s been solid and he’s pulled out some surprises.  He seems like he’s improved his coaching staff over time and generally learned from his mistakes.  Is Pat the perfect coach?  No, at least not yet.  Are Pat’s recruting classes trending in the wrong direction?  It would seem so.  Has Pat won more regular season games on average than his immediate predecessors?  Yes.  Has he done it against a tougher schedule?  The answer again is yes.  Lastly, has Pat Narduzzi, despite massive staff turnover and what could be considered a pretty weak OC during the last two seasons, empirically improved recruiting?  Yes he has.

While Pat hasn’t transformed the program to the degree that many fans were wanting in the last four years, there are signs that point to a methodical process, and more importantly methodical progress.  The 2019 season, of course, will tell the tale.  Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, your expectations should be high.  If you are a naysayer, then 9 wins are what Narduzzi needs to stay off the hot seat.  If you are an optimist, then 9 wins is where we should be given all the talent coming back.  Either way, I believe that with the addition of Whipple and Beatty and the retention of the rest of the staff, Pat has the best overall coaching staff of his tenure, and I’m sayhing that it will pay dividends.

Hail to Pitt

Michaelangelo Monteleone

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Michaelangelo holds a degree in Travel Writing from the University of Pittsburgh. He was a former staff writer for InPittsburgh Newsweekly, and currently resides near Atlanta, Georgia. He has been a Pitt fan since 1997 after he witnessed Pitt upset #22 Miami on Thursday night at Pitt Stadium.

215 thoughts on “Narduzzi is Actually Better Than Dabo…Kind Of”

  1. Wow, just wow Michelangelo, great stuff. I’ll have to read over this a few times to gather all the info in but great article…… couple quick thoughts first.

    Refreshing to read more positive vibes for PITT.

    I want to know where Richman was when the above pictures were taken and who his arms were wrapped around?

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    1. ike – Congrats on the birth of your grandchild. Augustus! Love the name.

      Best wishes to everyone.

      Go Pitt.

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    2. Thanks Ike, I nearly started off this piece with “and this one is dedicated to Ike…”. Jk. I heard Richman was in the corner by himself nursing a warm iron city the entire afternoon. The validity of this rumor is suspect however…

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  3. excellent write-up
    took some time to do this research

    Miami will also be improved this year with new coach and finally a QB
    They might be the division favorite

    The way I see Dabo is that he took over a perennial 8 win team that always did well in recruiting but always underachieved. By year 4, he won 10 games and has since won 10+ games for 8 years straight including 2 NC’s.

    Narduzzi took over for a perennial 6 win team with average recruiting and did manage to improve the baseline for wins. But my question is – what is his ceiling? Given Narduzzi’s recruiting, I see him as a max 8-9 win guy. And for many at Pitt, including the administration, if he can consistently reach that level, he’ll have a long coaching career at Pitt.

    I’d like to see him max out at 10-11 wins and maybe put together a small streak of excellence. But, he has to raise the bar significantly with recruiting and have greater continuity with staff.

    Right now, Narduzzi is underachieving. Year 5 is big for him. Anything less than 8 regular season wins will be a big disappointment.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I would agree and add that I think it takes more than four or five years to elevate a 6 win program to a 10 win program. Time will tell…

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    2. Right now the Miami QB who transferred in from tOSU is not eligible to play. That is subject to change though…

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  4. Good comparison. This coming year will be a true measurement of how Narduzzi is doing as far as recruiting. His classes have finally reached the point (RS SO to SR) where they have developed enough to play and play well.

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  5. One big, big difference between Doozer and Dabo. When the Aliquippa kid picked KY, Doozer couldn’t help himself from saying something to apparently “get back” at the recruit. With Dooz, it’s all about – “if you’re not with me, your against me. “ This attitude doesn’t come across well for Dooz, but it reflects his ultra-competitive personality.

    Dabo, on the other hand, if he loses a recruit likely says something like: “Well, God didn’t intend that recruit to come to Clemson. That recruit should follow whatever plan the Lord has for him and I wish him the very best. God bless him!” And Dabo would come off as totally sincere and likeable.

    This difference may be why a handful of players have passed on going to Pitt, or why a handful have been steered away from Pitt.

    Excellent article, MM. I’m sure some will suspect that Heather commissioned you to write that piece. 😊.

    I agree that Dooz has appeared to incrementally improve the coaching staff.

    Hail to Pitt.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. That is a good insight MM and you are right. Dabo has a well earned reputation as the consummate southern gentleman, and a successful one at that

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  6. Interesting … but just another example of using selective data to make your point … something we have seen for a while here (from both sides of issues). Nonetheless, there is some pertinent data here, and it is certainly thought-provoking.

    I particularly liked that you recognized the difference of taking over a Clemson program vs taking over a Pitt program … especially the issue of recruiting and just how well Clemson has done over an extended period of time. It should be known that Clemson is situated in a very advantageous area handy to Florida and Georgia … two of the very best states for high school recruiting.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yes they also have a certain recruiting “infrastructure” that Pitt does not…

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    2. Clemson was the butt of jokes before Dabo. Clemson would ‘Pitt’ each year. It was SOC.
      They were known as chronic underachievers given the recruiting talent they hauled in each year

      Great coach/staff plus Great recruiting = 12 win seasons and National Championships

      I think Pitt has a good head coach. Its starting to develop a good staff…finally.
      But recruiting is below average
      Good coach/staff plus Good recruiting = 9-10 wins plus final season ranking

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      1. Also interestingly enough if you read the Wikipedia on Dabo it states that many Clemson fans were initially not in favor of his hire. Boy were they wrong

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  7. The intolerance for Narduzzi is somewhat understandable yet at times a littler unreasonable imo. He certainly has his warts but to constantly dog the guy and overlook what it actually takes to build up a faltering football program does tend to lead me to defend the guy. That sure doesn’t make me married to him though.

    Continuity kind of ties in with this portal BS that college football is now experiencing. These young men/players like who recruited them and would like their coaches to be around for the entire time they they are at a particular school. The instability along with a lazy football interest by the PITT administration is what has put PITT football exactly where it was, continuity is one way to get them out of mediocrity the quickest.

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  10. I believe this year will be the make or break season for Narduzzi. If we repeat as Coastal Champs, then I will believe. If we do not, then I will have continue with my doubts. As I stated previously I think Narduzzi should be done with the “head coach in training” phase of his career.

    On thing your article points out is that Dabo inherited a ready made coaching staff when he was appointed interim head coach. That was a huge plus in my book. Narduzzi did not have that luxury. He has been trying to find the right mix of offensive and defensive coordinators since the beginning of his tenure. Hopefully he has it now.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. see this is the problem I see here on POV. Why is Pitt any better than any other Coastal school

      — home attendance – Unchecked

      — handy to a lot of recruits -Unchecked

      — more HC experience than his peers — Unchecked in most cases; 4 (Mendenhall, Fuente, Brown and Cutliffe) of the 6 other Coastal coaches have more HC experience.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. Hey WWB/All,

          So I ask this again, how do you reconcile a weak non-con with the fact that PItt has to keep season renewals for a home and home series.

          I will say this again, what happened this year is you have PSU at home and you had ND away. PItt is not going to give up that anchor school and you will see an overlap once in a while (in the sense that you have a PSU for your home date but have to deal with having ND away).

          UCF was a bad luck situation and programs will encounter that from time to time.

          As I stated in your previous post we will all get a chance to see what happens with 3 cupcakes on the schedule in 2020. The first 3 games will be Miami (OH), at Marshall, Richmond.

          The fourth OOC game will be a home game against Notre Dame.

          I won’t argue prior to this year they played some pretty tough teams but in reality you look even back in 2017, they had PSU away per the 4 year agreement with PSU and OSU. OSU is the replacement for Notre Dame. They played Youngstown State and Rice that year.

          My point is what we are talking about here is 1 game. whether it is Oklahoma State, Notre Dame, Penn State, WVU…Pitt will not have 4 games against little sisters of the poor.

          3 at most. But to entice season renewals they will always try to arrange for that “anchor” team as I call it.

          Btw, to this day I don’t understand Oklahoma State…no real connections with that team that I can see.

          But here is the thing and I am sorry to repeat it, if you continue to approach that you need that one tough team on the schedule at home, you are inevitably going to be stuck once in a while with an overlap of one home game and one away game like this year.

          Sorry to go on but I still think when it comes to Pitt you are debating 1 game of difference in OOC.

          And one more thing I ask honestly, if we go into the Miami game playing at 9-2 and then proceed to lose the remaining 3 games and end up 9-5. Would you really consider that a successful season?

          Do you think that 9 – 4 with some pretty bad losses to Miami and Clemson would’ve bagged some 4-stars we didn’t get?

          Dave

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  11. Fun read, does indicate that Pitt fans should be a little more patient,
    especially since Pitt/Narduzzi has many more obstacles to overcome.

    Recruiting disadvantage being number 1. Much more difficult to convince southern players to come north.
    Second is the Pitt fanbase which is not as cohesive to say the least.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Lets not have too much patience though.
      Narduzzi selects his staff. The lack of continuity is on him.

      Clemson didnt win big with all the 4 stars they were hauling in prior to Dabo.
      Once Clemson got the right coach, they took off

      Is Narduzzi the right coach?
      To me, his failure to recruit and maintain continuity may be his undoing.
      Maybe continuity is fixed with his staff now
      But recruiting is getting worse and thats inexcusable.
      Pitt doesnt need 15 four stars each year
      But they sure need more than one.

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        1. Good point, Erie. A nice job by Purdue. And I think they ended up with some Ohio players who Pitt had offered.

          The vast majority of the 4-stars go to those same top 25 schools, pretty much year after year… The Dooz now has some recognized effective recruiters on his staff — I say it’s time for the Dooz to take a critical look at himself and make his best attempt to become a more likeable, less ego-driven recruiter.

          A kid who decides to go elsewhere is not a bad person and is not your enemy. Use the ultra-competitiveness everywhere in the job except in the presence of players you are still trying to convince to come to Pitt. Try a bit of humbleness in those situations. Just my humble suggestion…

          Go Pitt.

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  12. First off I want to say to Lastrow and PittPT featured in the picture…”THAT’S MY JOB!!!”

    Lot’s of info to chew on..thanks MM…will read it all later…

    My accountant and friend Greg Sasser’s brother Chris, a minister, had Dabo at his church in Wilmington NC to do a talk. Greg said it was something like “fellowship of Christian athletes.” Chri’s young son became Dabo’s assistant for the morning. Dabo is loved outside of Clemson. Greg and Chris, both hardcore Tarheels, love Dabo for the man he is…a man who lives his faith. He truly can connect to people.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. MM, I think you may have missed the most important statistic: how many top 20 finishes did they have. Winning a bowl game certainly helps in this regard. People and recruits remember the top 20 finishes, and that is what determines a successful program.

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    1. I’d say that’s a factor in overall program success. Dabo has zero top 20 finishes in his first four years (08-11) although Clemson did finish 11th in 2012, so not too shabby return on that four year investment

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  14. Very good point VoR, they also remember division titles and conference championship games. The first goal of any P-5 team is to win their division. Plain and simple.

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  16. ^^ from above wwb. Exactly, with all that in mind, a division win ain’t all that bad when kept in proper perspective. What do you want for nothing…… Rubber Biscuits? Bow Bow Bow

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  18. $$$$$ is the main difference. I posted what Clempson pays their coaching staff. Look no further than the cash. Follow the cash to the promised land. Cash for coaches means cash for recruiting. Financial component cannot be understated.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Pitt is spending enough to be competitive for Coastal titles and bowl games
      It doesnt have the ticket sales or donors to spend at Clemson levels

      Liked by 1 person

  19. ike, you have been challenged for your ongoing focus on Pitt’s Coastal Division title as an important milestone, even with the 7-7 finish. Tex may not agree, but I think you are right that these titles are important, and tend to be remembered by outsiders longer than the W/L record. Recruits may also forget the crushing losses in the title game, but will still see the division flags or trophies on campus when being recruited. So I would suggest that MM modify the comparison criteria to include division and conference titles as well as top 20 rankings

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    1. The title was wasted since it resulted in no bowl win and final ranking
      Recruits look at bowl wins and rankings
      But thats not THE reason why Pitt’s recruiting sucks
      And its not the geography

      Half of Pitt’s last class was pulled from the deep south so I dont think kids not wanting to play in crappy weather is an excuse.

      Plenty of talent in Ohio which is pretty much ignored by Pitt.

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      1. Purdue was not ranked and lost bowl game 63-14 although the bowl was probably after many of the recruits committed

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  20. how does BC and Syracuse recruit better?

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    1. Bad year recruiting for the Panthers and a Duzz. No doubt about it! He does beat most of the ones ahead of him except UNC and NC State.

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  21. ^^ They don’t Tx. PITT gets a 4* running back (Carter) and rivals almost immediately reduces him to a 3*. It’s all BS when it comes to programs like PITT. Syracuse and BC and 80 other football programs. It’s way too subjective to get upset about. imo.

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    1. Pa is ranked 5th in populations but yet its ranked even below Hawaii and Kentucky in the number of blue chips. And worse yet, most of the better FB players (blue chip or otherwise) are from the eastern part of the state, and it has been that way for a while

      http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/

      Pitt offers very little advantages any more when it comes to recruiting

      Liked by 1 person

      1. OH, NJ, VA and MD offer talent. Those kids are used to playing in rain and cold. Theres no reason why Pitt cant have top 25-30 recruiting classes. Pitt will also get more exposure to ‘southern’ kids with the new ACC network.

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  24. BTW, thanks to all the well wishers for the congrats I didn’t get to. Auggie is doing well. The cord was wrapped around his neck 5 times but by the great grace of God he dodged a bullet and is doing fine. 6 lbs 12 ozs. Bummer though, they also downsized his name to August. Thought Augustus would be too hard to spell for a little guy with an already middle name of Elliott. Does remind of you Michelangelo.

    Liked by 3 people

  26. Yeah, they are calling it a miracle Fran, thanks again to all. My son didn’t want to tell me all that early this morning. Still have all my fingers and my toes crossed though. My eyes, well, they were already kind of crossed, so I’m good there.

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  27. How in the world did VT manage to get 8 top 500 recruits? And Cuse gets 3? OSU, Michigan, etc. certainly get their share of Northern recruits. What is the problem here?

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    1. except for Cuse, how does Pitt compare to any of them? OSU ad Mich plays in front of 100k plus and are always on national TV. Even VT plays in front of 70k, and all have an OCS.

      Do you not think that nowadays when a rival recruiter is going against Pitt, he doesn’t pull out an iPhone or iPad picture of a Pitt game with 25k yellow seats. I’m not being facetious

      Liked by 2 people

      1. yellow seats at Heinz are a huge drawback yet Narduzzi is against tarping.

        and Heather refuses to publicly talk about a feasibility study for a multi purpose venue as part of Victory Heights

        Liked by 2 people

  29. The Whipple Factor on the QB’s better be huge if they want to repeat winning the Coastal because Pickett was a dumpster fire last year.

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    1. KP was actually a big positive factor in the big wins against Duke and Wake Forest.

      Players can and do get better, especially in their junior years…

      Go Pitt.

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  30. The fact that Pitt doesn’t have a distinct campus and is spread over city blocks has to turn some kids off as well. It just doesn’t have that college feel that most other schools have. Even Duquesne and CMU have much nicer and distinct campuses. At Pitt, dorms are spread out in different areas and you have Fifth and Forbes avenues to deal with.

    While most of us have learned to love the “campus” it isn’t the warm and fuzzy scene that you have at most others.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I can tell you from a non-alum who worked in Oakland for a couple of years, I felt it was more a business / healthcare area than campus. And I’m sure since you have to look both ways and/or wait for a signal on virtually every block you walk, that the mothers can’t be too enthralled.

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    1. Nope. That’s why I jumped on the opportunity now. On the other hand, a big part of why Duzz is able to show more statistical improvement is because he started with a lower base

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  32. There are ways to fix the ambiance of PITTs campus. Pretty simple in fact, shut down Bigilow Blvd and blow up south Oakland. Problem solved.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. some things that Jackie had to say about selling Pitt to recruits
    https://www.pittsburghsportsreport.com/PSR/node/8332

    I dont agree with some things like how playing at Heinz is a good thing (see yellow seats and a stadium way too big for Pitt’s needs) Or that there is no place for a multi-purpose venue on campus (see OC Lot and Cost Center footprint). Or that it will cost 1 Billion dollars (see the $240k that Minnesota spent on their 50k stadium).

    I do agree that you have to sell recruits on whats unique about Pitt. And an urban environment or association with the Steelers isnt for everyone.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. but apparently what’s good about Pitt doesn’t faze the top recruits compared to what is good about its competitors. Remember, when he arrived here as a HC, Pitt just won a national title. That is certainly not the case now

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    3. Enjoyed that interview with Jackie. Thanks.

      Not sure you can compare UMinn with PItt regarding a stadium. Minneapolis is flat as a pancake and they had beaucoup land on the edge of campus next to a large rail yard.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. the land for Pitt is already owned so no eminent domain needed and its pretty flat as well (OC Lot/Cost Center)

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    1. An oddity is that we seem to be gaining some pretty decent BB recruits in the local area…

      We still have good FB players locally, but they all go to ND…☹️

      Speaking of which, I can’t even remember that Central Catholic QB’s name now – wonder if he’ll get a shot at ND??

      Go Pitt.

      Like

    2. Its still a great area to find wrestlers though

      Thats why Pitt football needs to focus more out of state and to their credit they have.

      Like

  37. I understand he was thrown off the WVU BB team because he refused to burn a couch. Maybe just a rumor or a joke.

    Like

  39. Once again I find myself in agreement with Ike (his 2:37 pm comment above). In my opinion the recruiting ranking system is just so much BS. Granted a 5 star is rare and probably a man amongst boys. But differentiating between 2, 3, and 4 star players boggles my mind. Think about it. How do you compare a lineman playing on a Class A team, running roughshod against teams with a roster of 20 players, against a lineman on a Class 6A team who more than holds his own against like competition. I don’t see how the ranking folks can even see 5% of the players in person. What do they do, watch highlight videos? Again IMO, any kid who plays for 4 years of high school ball and can’t put together five minutes of video where he looks good … please. So what else is there? A five day camp and the evaluations from the camp holders?

    Every year someone does an evaluation of the Super Bowl teams and shows they are mostly populated with 2 and 3 star recruits. But then some say, well that is because there are so many more 2 and 3 star recruits than 4 and 5. I say bullcrap! If those 4 and 5 star recruits were truly the cream of the crop, the NFL would be loaded with them and almost exclusively them.

    More proof? How many times do you see a 2 or 3 star recruit signed by a blueblood program and instantly grow a star? Do the ranking folks suddenly realize they overlooked something about the kid? And, if so, how objective is their evaluation system?

    The PSU fans live and die by recruiting rankings. I don’t want to be like them. The highlight of their football season is letter of intent day. Ours is the day the Pro Bowl selectees are announced. Neither one seems to have a correlation to the college football playoff selections.

    Like

    1. Theres a high correlation between recruiting rankings and a school’s performance. Also, a higher percentage of 4 and 5 star players will make an impact in college and in the pros. There has never been a NC in the BCS era without at least one 5-star on the roster. Those are facts.

      Realize there are over 10,000 2 and 3 star rated kids out there. Only about 50 five stars and under 300 four stars. Its a numbers game. Rivals is the most professional and accurate of the agencies. Its a multi-million dollar business and they have hundreds of scouts and others who attend games and look over film.

      Thats not to say Rivals doesnt miss. Aaron Donald was only rated 5.7…5.8 is the cut line for a 4-star.

      Several of Pitt’s offers went out early and were based on camp evaluations. But, we’ve seen 4 previous years of camps and there has yet been a Narduzzi recruit make a significant impact. His eye for talent is either poor and/or his staff fails to develop players.

      If you look at Pitt’s recruiting trend-line (per Rivals), it is down. Thats not good.

      I look at several things:
      1. avg rating by Rivals
      This class only had three recruits rated 5.7 or above
      Last years class had ten

      percentage of these 5.7 and above rated recruits to the total number of recruits in a class
      This year Pitt’s ratio was 3/19 or 15%
      This year Penn State’s ratio was 20/23 or 87%
      The most successful teams are at a 50% plus ratio
      the schools that offered the kid
      You want to see other similar P-5 offers
      Several of Pitt’s recruits had offers from Elon, Holy Cross and Air Force. Pitt was their only P-5 offer. Thats a huge red flag.

      Recruiting is an area that Pitt needs to improve upon if it is to continue competing for Coastal titles.

      I just dont buy the argument that Narduzzi can find diamonds in the rough or coach up his players.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. You are right Tex – there is a proven correlation between teams that recruit “better” (per rivals) and success. There are also a few outliers. A couple of years ago those outliers were Wisconsin, Michigan State and I think TCU. Would be interesting to see if these three are still pinching about CS their weight, so to speak. Pitt right now is punching right at their weight if not slightly above IMO. Next year will tell the tell us a lot about whether narduzzi can get them to the next level with his approach.

        Like

        1. here is a link that shows by composite rating the percentage of stars that make it to the NFL
          http://footballscoop.com/news/stars-matter-recruiting-data-says/

          Theres a high correlation between stars and making it to the NFL as well as between star ratings and being an All American in college (if I could find that link, I’d post…I did months ago)

          Bottomline is that stars matter. Few programs are successful without very good star classes. Yes – schools like TCU, Michigan State and Whisky come to mind. They have mitigating factors like coaching and maybe scheme. I’m surprised TCU doesnt recruit better but this years class was very good.

          I just dont think Pitt can be an outlier and follow the ‘Whisky’ approach. They recruit big hogs for a power running game. They dont go up against spread offenses. They can get away with having fewer ‘athletes.’

          Like

          1. Thanks for the replies, TX. You’ve provided some good info, and links to verify, that I had not seen before.

            Like

    2. Good post farmers. There is a recruiting ranking post in the works…may be a few weeks but it’s a great offseason topic

      Like

  40. Thanks MM. This article I found inspiring. Pitt is my alma mater. Pitt is my University. The Panthers are my football team, win or lose. During the Narduzzi Era, Pitt can still be frustrating to follow, especially if you live & die with the team’s win/lose record.
    But during the multiple high points, it has been fantastic. We take it to penn state after years of that rivalry being in hibernation, we beat the eventual National Champs, in Death Valley no less, we salvage a losing year somewhat with a thrilling win against Miami at the end of the season, finally winning the ACC Coastal with a solid win at Wake Forest last year. Along the way, some record breaking performances were had. Guys like Peterman, Conner, Ollison & Hall made Pitt fun to watch again while putting up some stellar stats.
    Sure, the Panthers might still be treading water out there in the sea of mediocrity somewhere. but during that journey it’s been an experience that has provided the dedicated Pitt fan some really exciting moments over the last four seasons.
    As always, Hail to Pitt!

    Liked by 11 people

    1. Well this + the sarcastic memes I’m getting on the Facebook group are the nails in the coffin. This piece is blatantly – pro Pitt. (Lol and welcome back DR Tom)

      Like

    1. Hooray! JWF’s replacement upon graduation. Rivals150 senior Gerald Drumgoole just officially committed to Pitt.

      Good compliment to the current roster.

      Need a big or two now…

      Liked by 3 people

  44. If Narduzzi were coaching Pitt basketball Donovan Johnson would never choose Pitt. I predict the PN comment about Devonshire will come back to haunt him..

    Liked by 1 person

  49. Just saw this about Mississippi State forfeiting games….Of note to Ole Miss fans, however, is this news: the 2015 Sugar Bowl victory over Oklahoma State will remain. The Rebels will also keep the 2013 Music City Bowl win over Georgia Tech but lose the 2012 BBVA Compass Bowl win over Pitt.

    So we get a bowl win, yay Pitt!

    H2P

    Liked by 1 person

    1. His best offer I’d MD per 247Sports (Rivals does not list MD) – why do you say that about your team when it’s not true?

      Like

      1. his offer list is better that at least 6 of Narduzzi’s recruits
        Maryland, Buffalo, Temple, Toledo
        1 P-5 school and others are legit

        Goes to highlight how bad Narduzzi is when a freshman basketball player could probably start immediately at TE

        For most of Narduzzi’s recruits, Pitt was up against Elon and Holy Cross. And I bet Narduzzi still lost some recruits to those schools.

        Like

  54. He is a Rochester NY resident and somewhat surprised he didn’t seriously consider Buffalo, which is currently in Top 20 and whooped Arizona in first round of NCAA last year. Its coach, Nate Oaks, allegedly either turned down an interview or an offer from Pitt (but there so many rumors.)

    Bute he was considering an offer from an ACC, B10 and SEC team so his sights were definitely set on a big conference

    Like

    1. Oats was one of my picks for Pitt. He turned down Pitt because Buffalo stepped up with an extension.

      Who was going to interview Narduzzi when Heather extended him? Just sayin.

      Like

      1. but it also shows just what a cancer this program was deemed just less than a year ago after Stallings was finished with it

        Like

  55. Recruiting rating are still subjective. It’s obvious that the higher the star the player is it will be more likely to help his team. The numbers provided are very true but factor this in, when a team has 25 four and five star players each year for five years, of course their chances of winning are greatly enhanced.

    But the reason I take recruiting rankings for all the “other” schools with a little skepticism is because of the sheer number of eyes it takes for one recruiting service to rank players not from just all this country but all over the world. How can someone from California look at a player the exact same way that someone else looks at the same player? Of course they don’t think they really do that, I believe they are assigned to regions. Again different set of criteria going on. Factor in the competition and size of the school with their schedule and the whole system becomes convoluted. Look at this Blog for example, we all see things differently. I saw Darren Hall as being a pretty good back, how many saw it a different way?

    Summation: It’s impossible for a recruit evaluator to see a kid in Florida who’s not fully mature yet to a similar player in Minnesota by another set of eyes. Granted they do a really good job for the most part but when it comes to teams like PITT, the margin for error is fairly high. .. . .ike

    Like

    1. outside of camps, how often are Pitt’s recruiters seeing a kid play in person. They arent unless they are local. Pitt looks at film, uses these recruiting sites, talks with coaches and then maybe sees the kid actually play in person.

      Coaches at these high schools ‘sell’ their kids (figuratively and literally). Much like a college coach trying to sell their school/program. Buyers and sellers.

      The most effective talent evaluation is done in person. Often at camps. So the Pitt coaches must see something in these kids or they wouldnt have offered. I just havent seen a camp kid really excel yet at Pitt. Most of these camp kids are your 2 and 3 star variety.

      Like

      1. James Conner was a camp kid, recruited as a 3* DE. But face it, top recruits do not line up for Pitt camps when there are many attractive alternatives

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        1. And as the story goes, James had to coax his mother into paying the $50 fee so he could attend the camp. Best $50 investment she ever made.

          Like

      2. Tons of Chryst and Narduzzi recruit have been seen by the staff at camps. You are correct, it is their
        best evaluation tool.

        Like

  56. Concerning the article PN vs. DS, excluding the 2008 partial year, DS was 0-4 against Clempsum’s hated rival the fighting UofSC Gamecocks. Chock up another point for PN.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. But in homage to wwb’s Perspective article, DS lost the next year going 0-5. Since then, he has won 5 in a row. Record now (including 2008) is 6-5.

      Like

      1. Times have changed. Pitt lost to WVU at Morgantown (last meeting) in 2011; score was 21-20. A little over a month later in the Orange Bowl, Clemson lost to WV 70-33. where the Tigers were no match for the ‘Eers speed.

        Like

  60. The differences in 4 stars and above versus 3 stars and below are the measurables (height, weight, speed, agility, quickness, lack of injuries, yadda, yadda) when they matriculate to a campus. Those players are more apt to crack into the lineup for early playing time because of their physical attributes/measurables.

    A three star typically lacks the height, speed, quickness of the 4 and 5 star, but with the passage of time, can develop into a solid 4 star. Some of the 4 and 5 star kids max out when they are freshman and sophomores and eventually get passed by a hard working and growing 3 star or other 4 and 5 stars. Some 4 and 5 star guys push to maintain their status and some lose it.

    It is also better when you are surrounded by more 4 and 5 stars because your individual weakness may be picked up by another highly talented players strengths. When you have a bunch of 2 and 3 stars, the gaps in talent are more noticeable. Pitt needs to bring in 4-5 4 stars every year to get to solid 8 win seasons.

    MM, you are right about Narduzzi in a certain respect. As i mentioned last year, when Narduzzi was being paid as the 58th highest paid head coach in P5, the expectation would be that we finish in 58th for recruiting and 58th in rankings. In that regard, he overachieved in my opinion. Fast forward, as the goalposts shifted. if we move to where he is top 30 in pay, he is under-achieving so far as his recruiting is low and his final team ranking is not top 30 either.

    That is how I would run the shop in athletics. You are either accountable or you are not. Your pay reflects a certain standard and expectation. Fall below that standard and you should be gone, all other things being equal (i.e. you would need a running averge of recruting classes due to numbers of available schollies, etc.). But the point remains.

    Like

  61. ^^ Huff you make good points and I agree. You also have to factor in blood lines and the maturity level of the recruit. Young kids get big, fast, skilled and strong at different times in their teenage years. Take it from a guy that wrestled at 85 lbs as a junior.

    Like

  63. Couple more points Huff the third:

    Again, I agree with your points but the word accountable is a tiny bit subjective in my mind. Kind of like the recruiting services.

    Take a look at Wil Gipson’s stat line the past two years. (of course I don’t have them) but trust me. He went from zero to hero in his senior season because of a change in the head coach, staff and coaching philosophies. If that hadn’t happened, Gipson would have been overlooked by the PITT coaching staff. Pretty sure WG had over 1600 receiving yards last year, while having hardly any yards the year prior. Actually, recruiting is rocket science in a way. Having a rocket scientist with a pocketful of money is even better. … ike

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  64. Thanks Bill/wwb. Lots of variables going into recruiting. PITT never would have offered this young man if Aliquippa hadn’t fired their iconic head coach. Zumanic…. < sp

    Like

  65. On Eric Kumah said this on his twitter account.

    “Want to thank every school that has reached out to me and recruited me again. I’ll be releasing my top schools and where I’ll be visiting @ 7pm 💯✊🏽”

    Notice the recruited again part.

    Like

  67. Too bad this isn’t a hoops board as well. Interesting times, yet no good forum for discussion. Oh well, I appreciate this for the football talk!

    Like

    1. A BB win would be quite a relief. The men have lost 7 in a row and last won on Jan. 14.

      The women’s team has lost 11 in a row. Last win was against Duquesne on Dec. 29th. Ouch!

      The women will likely go winless in the ACC – they did lose 2 starters ( Bugg and Gribble) early in the season, plus their best player, Diop, transferred out after last season.

      Coach White has 5 recruits and a transfer coming in —and they will all be playing big minutes next season. Hang in there Coach White!

      Go Pitt.

      Like

    1. The game is at BC – curious if Fran is actually at Hemmy’s. My guess is he is in the golf simulator…

      Like

  79. Well, we crash and burn again.
    :<( This ACC schedule is just TOO draining for our young and short benched team!
    I fear our gas gauge has hit “E” for the remainder of the season.

    Liked by 1 person

  81. PITT…. undermanned for sure but not Capel’s best work tonight. Although missed foul shots at the end of the games have been a consistent problem in these close games. That and giving up offensive rebounds, have been very offensive…

    Like

  84. Brown and Chewbakka, no hustle, no boxing out underneath.. very passive players…had some early success but have a very long ways to go… can’t get over how kids who spend their entire life with a basketball in their hand can’t hit open shots with more regularity….

    Like

  85. Is Pitt still in the running for Eric Kumah? I thought he was to announce his final schools last night at 7.

    Like

    1. according to the story inn PSN a couple of days ago, he didn’t seem to be in any hurry. “The next step is to get my mom to visit”

      Liked by 1 person

  89. Re BB Recruiting, I watched some of the JUCO Sy’s game playing with Daytona St. on Youtube yesterday (skipped around, not the whole game), and based on that sampling I have no idea how Sy would help us, Terrell Brown appears to be a significantly better player, so I’m sure hoping we land one of the young bigs instead, like Coulibaly or Hugley. I really didn’t even get the impression that Sy would help as a backup, then again I’m no expert in the area. Just wondering if anyone else saw Sy play?

    Like

  90. A few observations about Pitt basketball:

    The misery of last year’s team and everything that went with that are largely forgotten. Good in that misery of that sort is best put behind us, bad in that many seem to think that we should now be winning again.

    When you hit absolute bottom in coaching, player personnel, fan support, there can be no overnight turn a round. Many seem to forget that half of this year’s team are the same guys that played last year.

    Speaking of the fans, while they are significantly back on board at the Pete, they have disappeared from this board, no thread last night and few comments and Pitt Blather is pretty much dead, so interest is still way down.

    Although they are not yet winning, this team is so far superior to last year’s it isn’t even close. While still outmanned in virtually every game, they do not quit and have kept games close in most cases.

    Holdovers from last year, Frame, Brown, Chukwuku and Davis are all playing significantly better than last year, but really are not ACC caliber players. Brown and Chukwulu may get there over the next two years, but none would get many minutes on most ACC teams.

    The three freshman have been asked to do too much. Johnson has held up best, but even he had a bad game last night. McGowen is still playing great defense, something totally absent last year, but has lost his confidence on offense and doesn’t seem able to finish his drives. Toney shows flashes but gets lost in the wash.

    N’Dir has been a solid sixth man, but has missed games to injury. Ellison has not added much other than a body Frame has been better, but just not good enough to come through at crunch time, nor has anyone else.

    Overall shooting percentage just isn’t good enough to win in the ACC, and the lack of depth causes defensive lapses at the end of games because of tired legs.

    But what Capel has done in less than a year is nothing short of miraculous. If he gets the right players and with another year of coaching and physical maturity, this team will be middle of the pack next year.

    Liked by 2 people

  93. PITT’s two starting guards reclassified. Should still be seniors. BTW, PITT’s defense held Blondie to 14 points. Still, PITT cannot keeping missing front ends of one on ones and giving up two offensive rebounds to the small white guy cannot happen as well.

    Like

  97. Yep, Pitt finally is moving forward on the recruiting front getting Karim Coulibaly a 6′ 8″ 3 star center to commit today. Considering that the two commits this week were both rated as only 3 stars I’m still waiting for the POV posters that are almost never satisfied with any Pitt recruit under 4 stars for FB or BB to express their displeasure.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Yes he had offers from Georgia, Arkansas, Tulane and St Joe’s. Legitimate but not the kind of offers many here at the POV are clamoring for. I think he is ranked by Rivals as the 30th best Center prospect in the country this season. IMO he is more a power forward prospect than a center at 6′ 8″.

        Like

        1. Don’t sleep on Georgia they are getting into it, I think I they $igned (well got comitt$) from two really highly rated guys recently, or so I hear on the radio down here in Atlanta. The fact that they offered is significant in this context, imo

          Like

  98. I don’t think this kid is even rated in the top 200 which I do not have a problem with because I trust Capel’s evaluation of talent. However, if this was a Stalling’s recruit, people would say it wasn’t a good one. Just saying.

    Like

    1. this kid is just outside the top 200 with good upside and a good fit
      i dont think any of the kids recruited by KS were top 200 anyway

      Pitt fills a need

      Like

    1. how do you know? I would say yes for the most part to the question asked but come back in 3 years. Yes, he struck out on Devonshire just like Capel struck out on Cockburn and Wahab, etc.

      Like

        1. One thing Devonshire did not realize when he was being recruited by UK….the DC matt House told him, “We send a lot of people to the NFL”. But, of course, he was speaking about himself.

          Liked by 1 person

    2. i think with maybe around 5 of them…the 2 RB’s recruited for sure
      that means another 14 might be nothing burgers

      big drop-off between the 2018 and 2019 classes for narduzzi
      recruiting will only get better with Capel

      Liked by 1 person

  100. It’s impossible to rate any recruiting class absent seeing them on the field. Rating any class just on how many stars were added to the roster is just plain folly IMO. Some of the high numbered star recruits are great athletes with little gray matter between their ears. I think Pitt may have a few of those currently on their roster.

    Like

    1. true
      but stars do matter
      and narduzzi’s class was not impressive
      again, if he can pull half his class rated 5.7 and above, he is on pace with the Hokies and Canes
      look at most top 20 teams, they hit this ratio
      there are a few exceptions, but do you really want to pin your hopes that Pitt will be an exception to the rule?

      Like

  101. Here’s another case in point on recruiting ratings. The big center from Senegal at PITT this weekend, it seemed like the general consensus about his height was 7’0 tall. Listening to Saunders yesterday he’s heard that Diallo may be 7’1 and then in today’s paper, he’s listed at 6’11. All tall but who really knows at this point. Again, it does not take a pro to know Zion is great but when it comes to the middle of the pack recruit it becomes a crap shoot and it takes a recruiters eye.

    Like

  102. While it is true that Capel is going to be a better recruiter than Narduzzi. Consider the environment they are recruiting too. Every basketball recruit this year has stated how impressed they are with the environment in the Peterson event center. In all my years I have never heard the same thing for the Pitt football environment. It makes a difference and all the Narduzzi haters don’t want to admit that.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Yes -it does make a difference
      Yet Narduzzi is on record against tarping
      Cant have it both ways

      An off campus stadium is bad for business
      I’ve been saying this for the past 5 years

      Yellow seats are the only legit excuse Narduzzi has left

      Like

  103. The Pete helped save Pitt basketball

    a small, intimate and intimidating venue on campus
    helped with recruiting not only basketball players but football players as well

    yet Pitt continues to bus students and players over 5 miles to an off campus Ketchup stadium that is far too big for Pitt’s needs and its screaming yellow seats are used against Pitt in recruiting.

    No feasibility study. No mention of Victory Heights. No mention of tarping.
    Just Deny, Deny, Deny. Lie, Lie, Lie.

    Like

    1. I am fully with you on wanting an OCS. It would be huge for the program. My wife would probably divorce me but I would donate good money to that cause.

      Like

  104. The Zoo would not be as effective if Pitt played off campus at a much larger PPG
    https://fansided.com/2015/09/30/30-toughest-college-basketball-arenas-play/21/

    In 11 years, the lease expires with Heinz. Heinz will be 31 years old and it was really only built to last for 25 years if you speak with the architects and engineers. It would probably be less expensive in the long run to just build another new stadium than try to massively renovate Heinz.

    Yet what is Pitt’s plan? Do they move with the Steelers to another stadium further away in the suburbs? Do they play their games at CMU for a year until a new Heinz is built on the Northshore? Do they begin a feasibility study for a new OCS?

    Like

  105. I chose to understand that what I don’t know I won’t pretend to know it. Rarely if ever do I put down in writing an opinion as fact. I only have a little insight to the goings on behind the closed doors of the PITT administration and simply, it’s not enough for me to judge what the PITT administration is actually and really doing. Example, I never said Heather was NOT on vacation, I simply stated and asked, how do we know she is.. Turns out……… . .. ..ike

    Like

    1. and I have a little insight as well to know well enough that Populous performed a feasibility study
      now why the findings are not released to the public?
      most likely, because they support an OCS and Heather doesnt want it to be part of her legacy
      She wont be around in 11 years to see it come to fruition
      She knows it requires a massive fundraising campaign
      She’s rather take the road most traveled

      Like

        1. then she should be taking a lead (like leaders do) and being out in front instead of dancing around the issues
          the issues are attendance at heinz and what Pitt plans to do in 10 years
          i’m looking at reality

          how does she plan to increase attendance at heinz?
          its not with bobbleheads and free fantas
          what is she going to do about those yellow seats (will we finally have a serious tarping discussion)
          whats the plan for victory heights?
          how is the silent phase going?
          what kind of money are we talking about?

          a marketer, visionary and fundraiser she is not
          she will do just enough to keep off the ACC’s naughty list

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          1. Tx, my point is…… we really have zero idea of what she’s doing and I’m fine with that. People in charge will tell you what they feel you should know, not the other way around.

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            1. thats part of the problem because it creates a vacuum
              she needs to control the narrative
              where is her press secretary…she needs one

              i’d like to see boosters and the media ask some tough questions like the yellow seat issue with heinz; like what is the plan when the heinz lease expires; like what is the plan for the program to actually make money for a change; like how is the fundraising going for victory heights

              get leadership on record

              having no idea doesnt breed confidence. It creates uncertainty and conspiracy theories.

              Like

  106. Publicly, an OCS is not part of the Victory Heights plan published by the university
    Pitt is still in the silent phase to gauge interest among the big boosters as to whether this $50M-$100M project (my estimate based on what they plan) is even feasible
    I would think that the interest would be much higher if football was a component
    I think Pitt would find it very hard to raise funds via donations to support 4 programs that have little interest and are money drains on the athletic budget
    They have the land (OC lot and Cost Center) to plan something far bigger and something that could generate a nice ROI
    It would be typical Pitt to blow this opportunity

    Like

  107. Tx honest question. Silent phase and gauging tells us what? I know what it tells me or more importantly, what it doesn’t tell me about the goings on down in Oakland. BTW, you make great points and I would love an OCS for the students, atmosphere and recruiting. Plus it would save me lots and lots of money. I most likely would start watching the games from the friendly confines of my home on the ACC network if God is willing. << By that I mean it’s going to be a long time coming if ever.

    Like

  108. silent phase tells her if any boosters are receptive to new facilities for Pitt’s wrestling, volleyball and gymnastics teams. Pitt plays in a 70 year old facility without AC. That doesnt cut it in the ACC. And these programs deserve better. Plus Pitt’s track team still doesnt have a track after 18 years. Inexcusable.

    So what boosters are going to give and how much? That determines how big this plan can get.

    I just dont see things ever getting off the ground since these programs dont have the boosters like football. And Pitt probably doesnt have an appetite for too much debt financing.

    Heather plays coy when asked about an OCS. She defends Heinz and the great relationship with the Steelers. She makes a remark that an OCS is possible with the money. Well, if thats the case, what is the plan to raise the funds?

    She has no interest and its too hard of work. She’d rather vacation.

    Like

    1. she defends Heinz because she has no other choice. There is no alternative here. The alums don’t even support the FB program with their attendance, what makes you think they will get the necessary funding for a right-sized stadium … whether OCS or otherwise?

      Liked by 1 person

  109. what makes me think Pitt can raise the money for a $50M dollar Victory Heights project
    I dont think they can without football being part of it

    Heather has no incentive to do anything for 11 years
    The new AD will probably just hitch a ride with the Steelers and Pitt will be playing further out in the burbs

    and they can right size Heinz now with some inexpensive tarps
    and sell space on them to advertisers
    much like they can advertise over those yellow seats
    put advertising on jersies (that day will happen)

    plenty of easy ways to make money…low hanging fruit right now
    until you need to worry about a fundraising campaign

    but Pitt doesnt have a marketing bone in their body

    Like

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