This is a bio submittal from wbb who is right near the top in POV comments posted…
The most accurate answer to the above is ‘Beats me!’
I have no real connection to Pitt. My parents were neither alums or fans; my dad was a Youngstown University grad and my mom wouldn’t know a touchdown from a double bogie. I didn’t attend Pitt but did have a cousin who graduated from Pitt in circa 1964, but that’s about it.
I grew up in Lawrence County, about 60 miles north of Oakland but did read the Post-Gazette sports page every morning in the mid to late sixties. My dad followed the Pirates (many a summer evening was spent on our patio listening to the Gunner and the Possum) so I was quite familiar with Pittsburgh sports, but frankly, Pitt football was not much good then nor do I ever remember watching them on TV.
Maybe it was sympathy. Full disclosure – I adopted Alabama as my favorite team back then, and I also had no hatred whatsoever towards Penn State. In fact, the first major college FB game I attended was a 63-7 drubbing of Pitt by Penn State which I believe was in the first of their two back-to-back unbeaten seasons. (Edit Note: 1968 was the season where we were outscored 197-16 over the last four games with both Miami and Army pitching shutouts against us).
In addition, I knew of Pitt’s head basketball coach Buzz Ridl way back in 1964 when my dad took me to watch Pitt play at Westminster (yes, at Westminster). If memory serves, Pitt lost. I do remember Brian Generalovich having ‘General’ written on his warm-up jacket.
While I don’t remember the exact moment I became a Pitt fan, I do know it was in the mid 70s. Maybe it was because I saw Tony Dorsett play in high school, maybe it was because a guy I knew in high school started at guard (opposite Wannstedt) for the 1973 team, maybe it was because Ridl was hired at Pitt, or most likely a combination of all of them; but I became a big Pitt fan somewhere along the way.
And further, I became sold on college football and never found it more exciting than when both Pitt and PSU were ranked in the Top 10 in late 70s / early 80s. And, of course, I saw two of the best of all time in Dorsett and ‘tackle made by No. 99 Hugh ___’ (still the best college FB player of all time IMO).
My friends and I would drive an hour and a half to watch a couple of Pitt games per year beginning in ’73. I was there when they lost to highly ranked USC in ’73 as the Trojan and his large white steed roamed the sidelines. I remember Dorsett running a for a 75 yard TD on the first play from scrimmage versus Navy in 1975 only to have it called back. That was the closest Pitt came to scoring that day in that upset loss. I was at the stadium in 1976 when Pitt would assume the No. 1 ranking; I remember the PA announcer announcing that Michigan was upset and then proclaiming “Guess who’s No. 1 now!” (or something like that.)
I saw a large handful of Pitt FB games both live and on TV before I moved to Ohio (Akron) in 1982. But even then, I kept close tabs, watching them on TV and making the trip to Pittsburgh on a few occasions. When I finally moved to the Pittsburgh area in the late 90s, I would attend FB and BB games more frequently. Finally, beginning in 2002, I became a season ticket holder in FB, having as many as five sideline season tickets as well as having BB season tickets for the first 4 years of The Pete. That all ended in 2007 when I had to leave for employment purposes. But over the last several years, I along with a couple of my friends, still held the three-year season pass package.
So why am I such a big fan? I still don’t have a clue.
pittpov.com 
Thanks wbb…
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This is an excellent and scary article by Chris Peak of Rivals.com. We talked about the large amount of attrition that has happened in the last 2 years and Chris figured it out to be 14 players this off-season alone.
That is huge and almost hard to believe. I looked back and that’s more than any other year in recent memory but for HCPC’s first two seasons when he dismissed so many problem players.
The over/under for Pitt this season is 5.5 wins. Last season it was 6.5 and we missed it. Lets hope we don’t do that again.
Anyway great and detailed article up on Rivals:
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/news/the-3-2-1-column-attrition-the-offense-and-more
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Thanks for writing wbb, enjoyed he article. – Hobie
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Reed – Let’s hope that the attrition is due to players getting “squeezed out” by better players. – Hobie
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Please name these problem players Paul dismissed. I bet I could name more who were dismissed for not fitting into his system?
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Clarification … I knew of Buzz Ridl way back in ’64 when he was Westminster’s HC .. not sure I made that clear.
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Thanks Hobie, wwb
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Thanks for the story wwb and nice job.
Peaks article starts out making you wonder about attrition then he goes on to explain it to be perfectly logical and leaving out the “incident” at the same time. Players get recruited over they leave. ipso facto
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Ike – What’s the incident? – Hobie
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Too bad there aren’t a whole lot more guys like wwb formerly know as wbb and now known as anonymous.
Hopefully when you retire, move back to Pittsburgh, you will see the 2nd renaissance of Pitt Sports.
Most guys would have stuck with Alabama. You must be a sucker for punishment, since you had a choice.
You are one of the most knowledgeable sports fans on here, so keep it coming.
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I’m retiring in late August, plan on attending FB games and posting here.
the poster formerly known as wbb
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Thanks for the link Reed.
The level of attrition, certainly has hurt production.
I wonder how it compares to top twenty teams.
They obviously lose more guys to the pros.
I think the attrition rate correlates with recruiting success or failure.
Too many of the “recruiting successes” are turning into busts.
It hurts depth the most when guys are leaving at a high rate.
This is also more evidence of the fact that Narduzzi has to recruit better.
Not just that he isn’t getting the 4’s, but the overall evaluation of talent seems to be deficient.
Hopefully there is some learning going on, and the recent classes will do better.
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GC, If he recruits a 3 star QB that turns into a 5 star QB playing at Pitt maybe you’ll change your assessment on Narduzzi’s recruitment record.
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One guy doesn’t make a football team. If we get into the top twenty in the next three years, then recruiting is good.
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Pitt will be in the top 20 at some point if Pickett turns into that 5 star QB and ends up a 1st round NFL pick.
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PSN.. CB Brisker chooses PSU over PITT… this is happening too frequently…are we not giving a “ goodie bag “ to recruits ?
Thanks Anon, wwb, wbb. You are a loyal Pitt fan. We need 10,000 more just like you. You have been a huge contributor on the Blather/POV for many years. Hope you have many more ahead of you !
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thanks for the kind words, much appreciated. anon/wwb/wwb
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Thanks WBB
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Hey Bernie, don’t get too worked up over losing Brisker. He’s from Lackawanna College. You know the place where PITT got a few O-Lineman last year that was criticized and poo pooed. 🙂
I am bummed out PITT didn’t get him, thought he could have been a big help.
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I’m reading the game time start for the first game against Albany is 3:30. That’s interesting. and good.
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I didn’t care about the kid personally Ike, but don’t you think the fact that HCPN put on such a hard push for this kid, and I heard it was a very hard push, and they didn’t get him means something?
it means our staff felt the defensive backfield really need somebody to help out right now and..
Another highly regarded Juco player, by the staff and fans and who the staff really wanted chose to go somewhere else.
And this was after he tweeted he wanted to “…be a home town hero at Pitt”
Don’t try to spin that in any positive sense.
Also, 14 players leaving, even with dismissals, is a ton of players.
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FWIW, and I say this with all truthfulness, I am definitely more alarmed at the staff’s recent recruiting failures (past 2 years) than I am with their W-L mark (2017 included.)
wwb
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until we solve 25,000 empty yellow seats, we will never recruit w Penn State. They are kicking our ass! It pains me greatly to say that.
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Reed, I posted I really wanted the kid, it’s you not being consistent here. The first part of my comment was tongue in cheek. Now you’re picking and choosing which players from the dreaded Lackawanna community college are Narduzzi misses and Narduzzi desperate recruits.
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What about Narduzzi putting on a hard push to get Chase Brown from the same Lackawanna College and landed him. You called it an act of desperation?
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Yes because his recruiting OL is lacking – and it is a myth an OL has to be an upperclassman.
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Gateway kid, Terry Smith, there was never a chance. I hate Smith for all the underhanded recruiting he did at Gateway, but he sure is THE prime reason they are killing us in WPa. Don’t ever doubt that!
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The fact is that the Dairy College has a better connection for Gateway players, than Pitt. Terry Smith, assistant coach was at Gateway a long time. Kids grew with him as their guy. The stinkin Sanders RB was probably very influential in the decision as well.
Too much is being put on these decisions as a whole. Each decision needs to be analyzed individually, and not put into a big bucket of misses. It is long odds when Pitt goes against Dairy, ND, Mich, OSU, etc. If Narduzzi put the full court press on a kid and they chose Toledo or Boston College or Virginia, that’s one thing. When you go up against the big dogs in recruiting, you are going to take your lumps but he has to continue to effort in that area.
You guys know better. This is one reason I do not prefer Pitt offering every 4 star out there. Pitt needs to be focused and develop relationships with high school programs, get the trust of high school kids and offer before other big programs do. The kids won’t consider Pitt when you are meddling at 6-6, 7-5, etc. This is why you schedule easier for a few years, pad the win column and have recruits take notice.
No recruit anywhere that is a high 4 and 5 star wants to come to a program to help a team change from 5-7 to 6-6. They want to be a part of a winner. Pad the freakin schedule AD. Get the 9 win seasons and watch the kids come. It is not difficult. Our current AD is showing scheduling signs of the old AD.
She should have re-worked the schedule for this year the first month she was on the job. Every big time FB program will not play 2-3 OOC tough games in a year. We do and we suck at it candidly.
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I’ll disagree – the first recruiting class I looked at, 2008, came on the heels of the 2007 5-7 season (and coming of two previous seasons of 5-6 and 6-6).
That ’08 class was ranked #28th nationally and had 1 5* and 5 4* kids in it. Some were Baldwin, Holley and Nix
The year previous – 2007’s class came on the heels of a 6-6 year and was ranked 26th nationally with 6 4* recruits. Some were Jacobson and McCoy.
HCPN’s class of 2013, coming off a 7-6 season had 1 5* and 2 4*s and was ranked 35th and had Johnson and Boyd in it.
It isn’t the circumstances Pitt finds itself in – its the HC and his staff who suck at recruiting.
We should have cleaned up that 2017 recruiting year after winning 16 games and we missed out on almost all of our big targets.
Pat Narduzzi couldn’t parlay two back to back 8 win years with wins over PSU and Clemsom and do a damn thing with recruiting – the longer he’s around and the HS coaches and parents get to know him the worse his recruiting is getting. Nobody else realizes that?
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The 13-9 game flipped a few top players Pitt’s way or it would have been different. Players want to come to a winning team or a team trending up because of the coaching staff.
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Scheduling would be my first concern. Anyone disagree that the way we have been scheduling hasn’t been working? Since it’s been awhile since we’ve lost 2 games or less, I’d say schedule with goal of going 3-1 at worst non con. Pick up 4-5 in conf. And you will have success. This will take awhile, but you must make a long term plan for success. Sorry, but strategic planning in athletics has never been our strong point. We just never have decided weather we want to win or not. Just for once, I’d like us to have a long term plan and stick with it. If you sell building a program you’d better be one hell of a salesman, or get falling down sh$$ faced lucky with a generational recruit that can carry a team. Easier to sell winning program.
I personally do not think there is any long term planning going one, just throw crap on the wall and see what sticks.
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Pitt had your desired result 2 seasons ago. They were 3-1 in the non-conference including a cherished win over Penn State and a respectable, late score loss to Oklahoma State on the road. Pitt was 5-3 in conference.
Pitt then had a similar schedule in 2017 that resulted in a 5-7 record.
Honestly, the continued churn over weakening the schedule is misplaced. Swapping out a good P5 team for a bad P5 team or worse, a bad MAC team, isn’t the answer.
Coaching and playing somewhat better against Syracuse, VT and UNC would have netted Pitt 3 more wins in 2017.
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Iek, I am not freaking out on losing a 3 star JUVO recruit to PSU. Looking forward to an exciting season of PITT FB. Maybe one day the pieces will fall together, the stars align and we rule our backyard again.
Hopefully, the AD reads this blog. Need wins , bowl games with a victory. String a couple or 3 of 9 or 10 wins seasons together then things should up-tic with recruiting. I think Heather gets it. BoT must realize athletics must be fully supported. Maybe the embarrassment of our BB program and the lo$$ associated have their eyes wide open with a vision and a plan.
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Huff III and JoeKnew… we need men like you on the BoT. Richman has the fan committee covered.
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If PITT is serious about winning and competing for championships and we remain stuck in the mud with our recruiting and 5-6 win seasons for the next 2-3 years then IMO it’s time to cut ties with Narduzzi. Time will tell.
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Why would you give him even 2-3 MORE years if all we are seeing is a downward trend in years 3-4? He needs to get back to 7 or 8 wins and win a freakin’ bowl game or I say either make his seat red hot for 2019 or cut him loose and get a better and smarter HC who can convince the best recruits to play at Pitt.
Right now it appears that nothing he has done on his own is paying off. Two bowl losses and a no-bowl season sends a huge message to recruits.
It’s one thing to like the guy’s personality like Pitt fans do – it’s a whole other ballgame to have a good FB HC and/or realize when you might not have one..
I have said all along that if Narduzzi won 9 games with a Pitt team other schools, especially Big Ten schools would come after him…that ship has sailed for him. We’ll never see 9 wins with this coach.
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Eight wins. That is the low bar for Narduzzi this season. Nard Dog’s fourth year. This is his team now. No more excuses.
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If Brisker would have pick PITT it would have been said Narduzzi’s safety recruits must suck and he failed again. I see how this game works. Here’s the #1 rule… Narduzzi loses, end of game.
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Other teams we go against in recruiting to date:
PSU – 4 w/ one 4*
WVU – 5 w/ one 4*
Maryland – 5 w/ one 4*
ND – 9 w/ six 4*
ACC TEAMS:
FSU – 10 w/ seven 4*
UM – 13 w/ six 4*
CLemson – 12 w/ five 4*
Duke (!) – 8 w/ one 4*
VT – 6
UV – 6
GT – 4
UL – 2
Pitt – 0
Look, three years ago every one of our Pitt fans were just damned sure that by year four of Pat Narduzzi’s time here he’d have established a dominant defense and would have been recruiting way, way better than he has been. You all thought he’d be recruiting up with the ACC leaders based on his personality and defensive guru rep. I must have read that a hundred times back in 2015..
But here is the thing that Pitt fans are doing now – they are holding on to those ‘big’ wins for dear life even as we slip below .500 ball (by two games) and our recruiting gets worse and not better. We should be winning against the better teams as a rule by now, or at least not as huge underdogs based on the rate of play in our other games that season.
Now here on the POV I must say that some commenters have changed their opinions to match real times and that is what should be done when things are not going the way you envisioned them to be from his hire to in Year 3 and going into Year 4.
I just wonder if the season goes the way I think it will, and I am by no means alone in thinking we’ll scratch to get 6 wins – just read the message boards and how the other media writers are starting to now write about Pitt football – will those overly optimistic fans we have finally quit making excuses for poor work?
as I said – i do wonder…
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Don’t wonder about my opinion. Eight wins minimal or Narduzzi has some splainin to do.
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Reed, I don’t disagree with you at all. CFB is all about recruiting. PITT FB then BB became such a mess that I am willing to wait through 2 more seasons as PITT in it’s usual (and hopefully past MO) went on the cheap and hired a DC with no head coaching experience. If Pat craps to bed this year then the seat will get very HOT and I have no doubts Heather can bring that heat. If and when that happens, I will enjoy the ride which, BTW, has improved 1000% for me for 2 reasons: #1 our move to the ACC. #2 Reed Kohberger’s baby-the PITT POV.
I do agree the bowl losses were a huge setback in recruiting. Victories in those and we are at nine wins, ranked with more national exposure and exposure,/rankings are important in recruiting.
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If Lyke brings the heat on Narduzzi then Ike will be extremely conflicted.
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By odds you would think there is a 4 star out there who has always dreamed of playing for PITT while sharing facilities with the Steelers who would jump at the opportunity as soon as he was eligible to commit.
PITT is just not drawing much(any) interest in that respect. No “dreamers” out there ? That concerns me.
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Barvo…if in the bowels of PITT the administration has decided to change direction and pursue excellence in sports then you will see Pat’s having to produce. We have know idea what the BoT and administration are thinking. I guess if we quit seeing selfies and pics of Heather and Pat together he is on the hot-seat.
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Know=No,
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Hey Barvo, back the faak off me I’m telling you for the last time.
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Ike , that was a pretty mild and funny observation by Barvo. Let’s be honest, your handsome head may just expode should Lyke can PN after this season.
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LOL
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This is the make or break year. If it goes the way I think, Heathers next sit down should be with the Duzz. You simply cannot continue to get your clock cleaned year after year after year in recruiting. He has lost almost every big name player locally,( I said almost) and not done that much nationally. He either needs better recruiters or more help financially to hire staff. Has he really lived up to your expectations as a recruiter. If you,are satisfied with a Northwestern type program then fine, quit bitching. Deal with it. But if you want to compete with Clemson, FSU, Miami, Va.Tech, PSU, or even the Hoopies, you must do better.
Kids keep leaving the program, at higher rates than normal(kids he recruited, not other people’s problem child’s). High school coaches and ADs are shocked at the tactics and language that come out of coaches mouths toward kids. No real realationship building, why?? Have they really coached up their 3 almost 4*s?
Like it or not we are stuck with the Duzz. Simply can’t afford to let him go, but we cannot allow him to continue as is. Get a plan, have the talk, get him the help. If he is totally unresponsive, well, then you’ll see Heather earn the big bucks. Right now Pitt is getting squeezed like a zit recruiting wise. The team in the east is killing us. The teams to the west and south are talking who they want. Our base is becoming non existent. Well never achieve the level we want taking leftovers from the south, and have no doubt, they are leftovers. You might get a nugget now and then, but that’s like playing long shots at the track or betting hard ways at craps. You’ll eventually go down in flames.
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Agree with you JoeKnew.
Leaves me wondering why Nard can’t seem to recruit as well as others. My gut (no facts here) tells me that it may be a personality thing. Nard is a football guy with passion, but he may not relate or be able to build relationships with kids as well as some others like maybe Capel or PSU’s Franklin. In fact Capel and Franklin appear to have personality similarities. They are instantly likable types. Nard may not be.
Add in the lack of wins and the clunkiness of the off campus football facilities and we are at a big disadvantage in recruiting.
A plan and the right assistant coaches may be able to turn the tide. I hope that he is introspective and willing to learn and change over time.
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Pitt should have scarfed up as much land on the South Side as possible back when it was more available and at a lot cheaper price. Then they could have expanded the campus to be on both sides of the Mon, and you could have built some dorms over there, where the football team could have lived and walked
to the UPMC Practice facility instead of being bused.
Expanding the campus over there also ties in better, all the things that South Side has to offer these days.
Which makes it much more attractive to potential students and recruits. And they could have had some sort of lite rail type of system to connect the campuses. The possibilities of what could have been are almost limitless.
Not much vision at Pitt, as far as I can tell.
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They’d have to care first….under Nordy & Co.? lol
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There is nothing lykable about Franklin.
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I’m betting that Heather is a planner, and she is already scanning the country for head coaches or good assistants that could replace PN if and when that is necessary. I think first that if Pitt ends up 7-5 or worse this year, she will be expecting some assistant coaching changes. The WR and OL coaches will be gone for sure. If the FB team then falls flat in 2019, we will be looking for a new coach who can recruit.
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With all the turnover we’re stuck with narduzzi for another 2-3 years at least. He’s only had one losing season through, let’s all back off the ledge now….
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But hanging ten over the edge is such a forte of Pitt fans? Why back away?
And when Narduzzi beats penn state again and ends up winning the Coastal Division, the talk will all be about how poorly Narduzzi is compensated & who is going to hire him away.
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Two caveats to the above discussion about recruiting, especially Pitt vs Penn St
1) Yes, Wanny did pretty well in 2008 after a losing season but PSU had limited scholarships available and only signed 14 https://bwi.rivals.com/commitments/football/2008
2) Chryst had 11 4-stars in his 3 years but 3 of them reneged on PSU when the sanctions were imposed. And it’s possible that at least one or two more would have opted for PSU the year after that.
Like it or not, PSU is more attractive than ever before on a national level, even than in the 70s and 80s. They get get a 3 or 4 prime time games which show an avid fanbase (virtual sea of white in the stands), and obviously Franklin can recruit.
Couple that with the fact the Western PA continues to produce less and less, it’s only going to be a bigger struggle for Pitt to recruit.
wwb
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Go South young man. (as did most of the population) Pitt should have hired someone from Dixie. Instead of getting the table scraps in PA & Ohio. Capel was a brilliant move.
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Wbb, those three kids had many good offers and could have easily gone somewhere else but they chose Pitt and Chryst. He recruited them and convinced them to come here after the sanctions.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2012/jp-holtz-11571#school-interests
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2013/dorian-johnson-11567#school-interests
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Oh come on wwb…..admit it….you fell in love with the Pitt script and the mustard yellow reminded you of the Frenchy’s mustard you lathered on Hot Dogs.
Or you just wanted to be in the Tortured Souls Club.
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I am more of a dark mustard type — remember the mustard they would slap on the hot dogs at Forbes Field? wwb
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While my dad took me to Forbes, I believed we saved the Hot Dog eating for the O. Might have had one at Forbes but can’t remember. I’ll take your word for it bro.
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Yes!! I loved that. I could get a hot dog for $.50, a coke for $.25 and popcorn or peanuts for also $.25 – and $.90 to get into the cheap sets in the Right Field upper seats – right above The Great One.
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Those were the days…
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With Capel’s hire Pitt finally realized we are in the ACC…..not the BigJoke.
Both Cheesehead Paulie and Nard Dog are BigJoke guys, with no connections in the South.
Neither hire made any sense considering what conference we play in and where a vast majority of the better athletes are.
Also everyone knew Paulie was gone as soon as Alvarez said ‘Come back’. So all that did was give us another rebuild/philosophy and kept Pitt idling in Neutral.
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I’m not discounting Narduzzi and his staff’s ability to as if yet recruit at a high level.
However, Western PA has seen a decline in the number of high school players being rated as 4 stars and higher.
Rivals has one 4 star recruit listed for Western PA for the next class. That isn’t a very large pool of high star players to choose from.
If I use my calculator, I believe that adds up to 1 available high star recruit.
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there were only 2 last year
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So go elsewhere…
For the last two years he has had a charted jet at his disposal so he has resources to travel and recruit.
His problem is that he can’t get 4* and 5* kids he meets on his recruiting trips to make official visits to Pitt and no blue chip recruit is going to a school without doing that with his family and/or coaches in tow.
Right now for the 2019 class he has at least 85 offers out to 4* & 5* kids, that will go up, and I’ll bet he doesn’t get 5 to take actual official visits
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/offers/football/2019
In ’18’s class l counted Pitt extending over 270 blue chip offers and we had a total of exactly one 4* take an official visit. Salahuddin and he signed for our only 4*.
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/visits/football/2018
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The women’s bball hire is from Florida State, so this also suggests…..Pitt finally gets it. We’re in the freakin ACC.
Western PA football does not produce the tough sons of steel workers/factory workers anymore. Since there are no more steel mills or factories. Where you had guys like Jimbo Covert and Mike Ditka from Steel Mill towns. Now you get soft kids from North Allegheny, Fox Chapel, Upper St. Clair, etc as those are the schools who can hire better coaches. But the kids are still soft, for the most part.
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Yep, Lyke is freaking out about the status of Pitt football recruiting with Narduzzi as the head coach and that’s why she gave him a raise and extended his contract.
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Yes with a heavily diminishing buyout clause. Standard for HC’s in their first contract which he is (his was a five year deal originally. DW got a renewed contract after the 2007 season until 2012 – how did that work out?
But I never said Heather was freaking out – however, what do you think she should do if we go 5-7 again (or worse) with another crappy recruiting class? Tell him everything is peachy or should she now set defined make or break goals prior to this season or before 2019?
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Thanks for the story wbb. You guys have really seen some pretty good games and really great players over the years.
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besides the coach, what are the biggest reasons holding Pitt back from recruiting 4 stars?
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To me it seems totally obvious — the kids today, with all the internet hype — want to play in front of a passionate and full stadium.
WE ARE MISSING THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FACTOR!
Add in the shortage of elite players who grew up as Pitt fans, and realize that no matter who Pitt hires, we will remain a second tier recruiting team. That’s just a fact.
Now BB is another story – we offer everything we need in BB, and now we finally have a big- time recruiter as the Head Coach.
Good things ahead in BB, a continuing struggle ahead in FB.
Go Pitt.
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Nailed it MM!
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Couldn’t agree more with the decline in WPIAL talent, however, if there is even one stud you MUST get him. Simple as that. If you can’t recruit the best in local talent you’re screwed. Wanny, for all his coaching shortcomings, understood that.
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Last years first PITT commit happened on May 10th. That would be Jay Symonds a 2* recruit who later DE-committed and went to Stanford I believe? Narduzzi was roundly criticized for picking up a two star player at the time.
Listen folks, I’m not defending Narduzzi with this comment and most of my others. I point out the hysteria and bias against the coach though an will continue to do so.
Just like everyone thinks I have been in love with AD Heather Lyke day one. Not true at all. I’ve said many times that I was against her hire. My point all along has been to give her a chance. I did the same thing with Stallings. One was a complete fail and Lyke’s work is incomplete and I still hold off my verdict and her job review.
Problem here is that there is some slow dimwits that want to harass me and make false assumptions about what I stand for. The jury is still out on Narduzzi in my mind but I’m not seeing the panic just yet. You know, because I don’t have a final opinion until after this and next season, like some do. Some say (me) I like Narduzzi and some say I like Narduzzi but………..
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And when 2* Symonds flipped to Stanford, he suddenly became a 3*.
Magically…
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I agree with you, ike. But wwb is right that the sanctions really helped Pitt to get some local kids, and Pedo is now going to get most of the top local recruits due to the caliber of program right now. Pitt must adopt a strategy of recruiting the South, Ohio, NJ, MD and even NY to get its talent. Any Western PA players it can get should be considered a bonus. After all, even Pedo can only recruit 23-25 kids per year. BTW, I think that most of us also agree with ike that Heather was questionable at first, but we should be giving her a chance. So far, so good.
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Three Kickoff Times Announced for 2018 Pitt Football Season
Start Times Released for Albany, Georgia Tech and Virginia
LINK: Pitt Football Kick Times
PITTSBURGH—The Atlantic Coast Conference and ESPN announced kickoff times for three Pitt football games today.
The Panthers’ 2018 season opener against Albany at Heinz Field on Sept. 1 will kick off at 3:30 p.m., and be shown on ACC Network Extra (ACCNE).
Pitt will open ACC play at home against Georgia Tech on Sept. 15. The game will have a 12:30 p.m. kickoff and be televised by AT&T SportsNet Pittsburgh.
Additionally, the Panthers’ Nov. 2 game at Virginia will be a Friday night ESPN2 telecast that will start at 7:30 p.m.
Previously announced kick times include the home Sept. 8 Penn State game (8 p.m. on ABC) and Oct. 13 contest at Notre Dame (2:30 p.m. on NBC).
Season tickets for the 2018 Pitt football season are now on sale. Call the Pitt Ticket Office at (800) 643-PITT (7488) or log on to PittsburghPanthers.com.
Announced kickoff times and television arrangements to date:
Sept. 1: Albany (ACCNE), 3:30 p.m.
Sept. 8: Penn State (ABC), 8 p.m.
Sept. 15: Georgia Tech* (RSN), 12:30 p.m.
Sept. 22: at North Carolina*, TBA
Sept. 29: at UCF, TBA
Oct. 6: Syracuse* (Homecoming), TBA
Oct. 13: at Notre Dame (NBC), 2:30 p.m.
Oct. 27: Duke*, TBA
Nov. 2 (Fri.): at Virginia* (ESPN2), 7:30 p.m.
Nov. 10: Virginia Tech*, TBA
Nov. 17: at Wake Forest*, TBA
Nov. 24: at Miami*, TBA
*ACC game
Due to television, TBA kickoff times will be announced at a later date.
#H2P | Facebook |Twitter | Instagram
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Looking at that schedule –
Pitt will face a couple of good QBs within the first three games. The PSU QB is an experienced gamer. He does it all. The Georgia Tech QB shined as freshman in that unique offense. The GT kid will likely be better than when we played them last year.
The Pitt D will be tested early.
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The 3:30 kickoff time for the Albany game is a move in the right direction but I’m not sure who to give credit to. Maybe the ACC network I suppose?
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Until we have our own acc tv channel, are the games that are broadcast on atnt also cast on the espn3.com site?
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living up in Cleveland, I was always able to watch the Pitt game, either on an ACC network affiliate or on computer …. ESPN3. wwb
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No doubt in my twisted head that the demise of HCPN’s tenure at Pitt will be due to his recruiting, or lack thereof.
Winning the odd ‘big game’ is great, but no bowl wins and a terrible year last year are merely harbingers of what is to come.
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Hey Reed, you pal Dokish is in agreement with you … go figure
Chris Dokish@ChrisDokish4 hours ago
I’m very patient in a coach’s first three years. In year four it’s time to win. I don’t care about the schedule. You should be good enough to win in year four.
Chris Dokish@ChrisDokish7 hours ago
It’s hard to convince kids to play in front of 30k when they can play in front of 100k. The only way Pitt football will recruit great is if they either cheat or start winning big. They aren’t going to cheat so they better start winning big.
but he also says this …
Btw, I should also add that Pitt is recruiting well enough to be a top 25 team
wwb
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I have to disagree that Pitt is recruiting well enough to be a top 25 team
A 3 star average places you between 30 and 50.
I dont see how Narduzzi wins more than 8 games this year
Vegas has the line at 5.5
I’m thinking 6-6 and a crappy bowl in Detroit where Pitt loses to a MAC team
And there will be an average of 28k yellow seats at Heinz this year in a venue that is way too large for Pitt
How is Pitt supposed to start winning ‘BIG’ without a proven QB and 4 star recruits???
Coach doesnt know how to recruit great
And if Pitt tried to cheat, it would backfire in some way creating losses and then on top of it, they would get caught and punished with the death penalty because this is Pitt
How about Pitt gets a Coach that knows how to recruit great first
Then they will recruit great, Pitt will begin winning (unless the coaching is horrid), and there will be less yellow seats
But Pitt doesnt think this way
I’m all for coaching stability and liked the extension, but Pitt needs to find a way to get 4-6 four star recruits each year if Narduzzi cant
Otherwise, Pitt needs to start fresh once again
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For me it is all about his lack of recruiting players who really produce and shine as stars right off the bat or in their first two years. We haven’t seen that yet with any player who actually committed to him to play for Pitt.
I just don’t think Pitt has the ability to be one of those “3* recruiting schools” so many like to point to because we never have been.
Every bigger winning season we have had, 8+ wins, has been on the shoulders of superstar players as I wrote a couple of weeks ago. I do not see any of those kids in his recruiting classes so far and wonder what this class will be like.
And I may be off base and someone from 2017 will jump out, but he’s relying on so many transfers who are waltzing directly into starting jobs that it turns new recruits off. Who wants to commit to play at Pitt, pay your dues for 2-3 years, then get sidelined by a transfer?
These recruits and their families aren’t stupid – a kid gets only one real shot at a D1 P5 scholarship and the last thing they want to do is transfer mid-career. I believe that is having a huge impact on his recruiting.
He’s promising kids they will get a chance to play football at Pitt and get a shot, however slim, at the NFL – then gets JUCO and CC players or grad transfers to take the recruit’s place.
I think it will be a long time before we see any sort of a blue chip QB or OL player come here just for those reasons.
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We got a blue chip QB right now. That’s as opposed to getting a blue chip like Browne directly out of HS. And like it was previously posted by another Michigan must be recruiting poorly at the QB position since they had to bring in a graduate transfer to help upgrade that position.
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Do we? I think he do well but I’m waiting until he’s got a few games under his belt before calling him a star player.
Who cares what UM does? They recruit way better than us and have gotten 4* QBs in ’15, ’16, ’17…
https://michigan.rivals.com/commitments/football/2015
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They also bring > $106M per year as well as >100k per game
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Let’s see how 3* Pickett and Shockey do this season. DE Weaver who was a 2* looked very impressive last year as a FR. Same with the 2 FR DB’s.
This team is building depth and will surprise a lot of yinz in 2018.
Football is a team sport and individuals usually don’t win FB games. I say usually cause our D in the past has been burned by individuals cause the D was so bad. Not this year.
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👍👍.
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If if if, seems to me that PITT has already had a bad season in year four of Narduzzi head coaching. Let’s get him!!
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REED posted “Ike , that was a pretty mild and funny observation by Barvo. Let’s be honest, your handsome head may just expode should Lyke can PN after this season.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If Heather fires Narduzzi after this coming season everyone’s head will implode. He will have had to pull a Gottfried, Haymaker and a Graham all in one season. Never mind that though. Go back and read Barvo’s last 20 comments. He secretly loves me or blatantly hates me…. Either way I’m uncomfortable with him getting all up in my junk. I would like to think I can take a joke but sir barvo is giving me the business..
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Meanwhile, how about all these great articles that have been submitted? I find them all to be so intriguing. Another great one by wwb today. Thanks… ike
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wwb- we need another 30K fans like you!
Appreciate your article.
Go Pitt.
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On another note this escaped me when it was published… Go Aundre!
“At a time when lines are being drawn and people are taking sides between Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter, when pro athletes are speaking out about both accusations of police brutality and retaliation against police, (Aundre) Wright is a young, African-American man who is a former Pitt football player and a current Pittsburgh Police officer.
“When people try to pick a side, they see me as a unicorn,” Wright, 27, said. “If you say one thing, you’re offending one area. And vice versa. I’m directly in the middle. I have contact with both sides. I just try to express to people where we’re coming from. People see a young, black male and a police officer — and he used to play football for Pitt — and it’s like their mind is blown.”
http://triblive.com/sports/kevingorman/10830532-74/wright-police-black
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Baseball loses another. Heather you home? Make the playoffs at 11-19 is embarassing.
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I was all Duzz all the time. But deep down I’m a realist and starting to have some serious reservations. Something isn’t right in Oakland and if this year goes the way I fear, Heather may get the chance to make her biggest move yet…
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@Barvo – respectfully disagree on your thought about scheduling. If you don’t think it is all about the scheduling read this for 2018 schedules in the ACC. The teams that have been bottom feeders for years KNOW that the answer to getting better recruits is by weakening your ooc schedule to get more wins.
I will say this once. I know the BC AD. He is doing there what he did at OSU which is schedule for wins and the recruits and fans will follow. This is AD 101. As examples, this year:
Virginia – Richmond, Indiana, Ohio and Liberty
BC – UMass, Holy Cross, Purdue and Temple
VTech- Notre Dame at home, William & Mary, East Carolina and Old Dominion
Wake Forest – Notre Dame at home, Tulane, Towson and Rice.
Syracuse – Notre Dame at home, Western Michigan, Wagner and UConn.
Miami – LSU, Savannah, FIU and Toledo
GTech – Alcorn, Bowling Green, South Florida and Georgia
NCSt – James Madison, Georgia State, West Virginia and Marshall
Duke – Army, NCCent, Northwestern and Baylor
Lewisville – Bama, WKy, Indiana St and Ky
Don’t let the facts get in the way. The OOC games are terrible, but they are part of a strategic plan. ACC AD’s know how to play the schedule. Ours have shown they can’t. Our AD’s heard a rumor that strength of schedule was a pillar for getting into the playoff and ran out and scheduled difficult. They forgot to actually understand that you had to have a good enough team to win 10 games before strength of schedule was even contemplated. We are a scheduling laughing stock and that includes our AD. She is late to the scheduling game. Even most of the crappy teams that we compete with for recruits, will go 3-1 with their schedules. Noone uses strength of schedule in negative recruiting. They use W’s and L’s…and coaching instability, and game day atmosphere.
The easy schedule ooc will allow teams to work on their games, gain confidence, let younger players play and show recruits W’s.
If you haven’t heard, millennials want to be a part of something good. Winning is that something good. Pitt’s AD’s don’t get it.
BigB, I would love to get on a P5 Board some day. I just won’t pay for the privilege. I don’t have Upitt money to do that!
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Very compelling argument. You need those guaranteed wins to up the total. Almost everyone does it that way. One tough game vs a traditional rival is enough.
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Couple thoughts..
“Hey Barvo, back the faak off me I’m telling you for the last time.”
Ike, he was simply saying you love Lyke and you love Narduzzi and a firing would leave you conflicted. In the words of Sgt. Hulka, “lighten up, Francis.”
-gc, I agree with a lot you post on here but this?…”(wwb) You are one of the most knowledgeable sports fans on here..” Umm…
-Agree to disagree on a lot, and make all the comments you want about game day decisions but if you don’t realize that Wannstedt is not only the best Pitt recruiter since Gottfried but FAR better than Narduzzi you are straight up mentally retarded. I don’t say that lightly, as I have a mentally disabled brother in law. But there’s no way to sugar coat it. Wannstedt got a ridiculous number of star players and was poised to get many more. If you don’t recognize that you have diminished mental capacity.
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Since when is mid-30’s a crappy recruiting class? Average class? Sure. Crappy? Come on. A little dramatic?
Let this season play out. These next two seasons will seal Duzz’s fate. He’s not going anywhere until after next season unless Pitt football goes full Stallings this season.
In college football you have a lot of unknowns because kids rotate out so often but Pitt found a playmaker QB and has 4 star players in the rotation at RB, WR, TE and 4 star players in the rotation at DL, LB and DB.
Pitt also has more depth across position groups than any coach in recent memory. To be a top 15 team, Duzz will have to recruit better. To be a top 25 team, he’s recruited well enough.
Relax. The program Pitt is being modeled after is Michigan State. This is how Duzz stacks up so far with his mentor.
Dantonio after 2 years: 16-10
Narduzzi after 2 years: 16-10
Dantonio Year Three: 6-7
Narduzzi Year Three: 5-7
Dantonio next 6 years: 65-16
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Agree heartily Tossing! Can everyone lighten up a tad and let’s see how the season plays out..
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Dantonios success also correlated with the downturn at Michigan. Michigan is back, so is PSU, Wisky too.
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I highly doubt Narduzzi will be generating 10-11 win seasons like Dantonio.
The more I see of the Dog, the more I think his ceiling is 9 wins and thats with a bowl win
I’d go SOP on him and cut him lose in 2020 assuming Pitt isnt stuck with some $10 Million dollar buyout
No recruits so far this year. Only 1 of 3 schools to pull that off
Only 1 4 star last year at the last minute
He has a freakin charter jet to recruit. Maybe he needs a helicopter like Franklin?
Like Dokish said, come year 4 you need to show what you got
I see 6 wins and Vegas sees even less than that
Pitt will defeat the Pedos and Domers and make us all happy yet will lose to teams like Syracuse, Wake and NC…again.
I’d close practice on him one day and see how he likes it.
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I will guarantee you that if Narduzzi consistantly produces 8 to 9 win seasons that he’ll be here as long as he desires.
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and thats a shame since it should be pretty easy with any competent coach to achieve consistent 8 win seasons. 3-1 in OOC and 5-3 in Division
I guess it comes down to the goal of Division titles and Championships. At least I hope thats the goal.
I figure a trip to the ACC championship once every 4 years
An ACC title once every 8
Consistent top 20 rankings
Winning good bowl games
I just cant see Narduzzi lasting without adding some trophies to the case…division titles and bowls
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I PRAY we beat PSU.. those arrogant SOB’s are already celebrating the win.. I just don’t see it.
I also hope Narduzzi turns into D’antonio 2.0 but I don’t see that either.
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I hope for the same as many in my family are Psu alum. Yes, they are already counting this as a win as they believe that they will be better than last year.
While its difficult to see how an inexperienced but talented QB like Pickett with an inexperienced OL can beat PSU, I believe there’s a chance if our defense can keep us in the game.
Dantonio and MSU beat PSU last year. Coaches should watch the film from that game.
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I’ve got numerous psux friends and they can be arrogant and smug at times. Many think they will roll over Pitt Lyke a speed bump this year.
One though thinks that Morehead saved Franklin’s job and that Ricke as OC spells trouble.
Just sayin…
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Sorry Jay, Barvo has been riding my ass for weeks now. I know you can’t read every post but I (sadly) do. … and I don’t love Lyke… say that three times fast… and that’s also my point.. How many times do I have to say that?
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Let me say, I DO like Lyke. I don’t LOVE Lyke, but she’s on point thus far.. Now, just dump Jordano and get us an on campus stadium and I’m thinking a statue could be in order.
I am looking forward to meeting you June 9.
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Hey, Erie!
I’m in for golf. UPitt and I have been talking and I’d like to ride with him– since Dan 72 is a “no go.”
How about a list of committed golfers/attendees? I’m really excited to see who’s coming out.
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The list grew by four last night – I hope to finalize it later tonight – I’ll try to post it tomorrow.
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Looks like we might have more celebrities at the POV golf outing than are attending the Royal Wedding today…as it should be. If you are on the fence consider attending. Last year was a blast and Erie is busting his a** making this a great event.
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@Jay91… totally agree with your earlier post. If we beat PSU and Nard Dog succeeds I will be very very happy. OCS would be icing. Looking forward to seeing you again and finally meeting Upitt.
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Concerning 2017 and the schedule. Sure the non-con was 2 sure losses, but it was 2 sure wins too!
If you lose to Syracuse and a 1 win Tarhole team, you have no right to complain that we didn’t get to 6 wins.
Frankly I wish that all these Bowel (movements) that take 6-6 teams just go away. A total abomination and perversion of what a successful season means.
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Leave it to ESPN/ABC/ Disney to totally corrupt the whole Bowel Season. And is in keeping with the rest…….
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Just heard on TV that I am watching the 2nd most elegant wedding in the past 10 months … only to be outdone by a service that occurred last September in Atlanta. Who knew?
wbb
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I was doing a couple online crosswords as well making coffee and breakfast but I’m pretty sure that we just went > 2 hrs now without a commercial; yet score a TD and 4 minutes of ads and then kickoff in the endzone and another 3-4 minutes
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Maybe we need this billboard in Pittsburgh given the depth of desire for Pitt among WPIAL footballers. – Hobie
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Perhaps the most disturbing thing is not that they have 0 commitments to this point, but rather their top targets keep choosing other schools, and not necessarily top tier programs. Something definitely smells.
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Folks – I just published Chapter 1 of my Ricky Town article. Because it will be in 3 (or maybe 4) chapters I have closed all comments to the article as i want it read and discussed as a whole story.
While I can’t stop you from commenting about it on other articles comments sections I really would prefer we’d read it all first then really discuss it in-depth. It has taken me a long time to write it… I’m at around 9,000 words now and have been busting my ass to make it readable and interesting for ALL OUR readers – not just the POVers who comment on here.
So I’ll serialize it with links back to previous published chapters and we’ll see how it goes.
Enjoy Chapter 1!
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I am still rooting for Narduzzi, because a coaching change would be a disaster, four more years of excuses.
I have expressed my concerns over recruiting as long as anyone, and it seems to be getting worse.
Offering all the 4 and 5 stars is not a strategy. Pitt needs to focus their resources on the guys they really want. Guys that want an urban campus. Perhaps kids whose grandparents and parents were originally from Pittsburgh and are still Steeler fans. In any case a new strategy is required and Heather could help by making Narduzzi acquire a proven recruiting coordinator from the ACC footprint. Maybe she needs to make Narduzzi take a Dale Carnegie course.
Young people are staying and moving back to Pittsburgh. Pitt needs to capitalize on this.
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Thanks Reed.. looking forward to the Ricky T series. He must have an interesting tale if there is that much to write about… only the Life of Iek would require more ink and paper!
POV GOLPHERS… have a great day and give me an update… who is your celeb?
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Mike Caprara – great Pitt guy. He was intelligent, good head on his shoulders and very informative on the current team.
Just a few classes away from finishing his Masters degree.
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https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2018/05/19/ohio-4-star-receiver-mershawn-rice-selects-purdue/
It was back-to-back recruiting surprises for the Pitt football program on Friday and neither of them were good news for a team still looking for it’s first commitment.
Yesterday, Lackawanna College safety JaQuan Brisker made an early commitment to Penn State and late last night another target selected a Big Ten program.
2019 4-star receiver Mershawn Rice (Reynoldsburg, Ohio) made a verbal commitment to Purdue.
Pitt was one of the first programs to offer Rice and he had consistently referred to Pitt as a second home.
PSN had listed Rice as a Pitt lean in our Panther Paw predictions last week but things seemed to change a few days ago. When PSN contacted Rice to see if he would be visiting Pitt soon, unlike in the past, he was very non-committal.
The Pitt staff had been recruiting Rice for over a year and officially offered him a scholarship last June when he attended a team camp.
Purdue my friends…
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Good grief…..
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Analogists who listen to the half empty glass of recruiting concerns should suggest the same solution that OCS proponents have.
Get a smaller glass.
2019’s recruiting success has zero impact on 2018’s win -loss record.
Get back to me a week prior to the early signing day to wring my hands over Narduzzi’s mediocre recruiting results. In the meantime I’ll be on vacation from the POV again over the summer. Just too much negativity for me.
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I think the realism is stark. Nothing in Narduzzi’s past leads me to believe that he will get the 4-6 four star recruits he needs. Nothing can convince me at this point that he knows how to coach three stars up. Maybe Year 4 is the year things come together but I have my doubts. I think the real concern over glasses is that many including myself dont even see the glass with much water to begin with. I see just melting ice cubes left in that glass.
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Bye
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Reporting truthfully on the negativity doesn’t produce the negativity. Misplaced aggression IMO. Direct it instead to Narduzzi & Co.
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I agree with Emel that Pitt should have expanded it’s campus, but it should have been Hazelwood. Close enough to SouthSide, but with a people mover more attached to Oakland. Too late now.
What Pitt should do now is quietly pick up property on both sides of Center Avenue behind Trees Hall and the Cost facilities. A lot of open and relatively cheap land. A high speed ski lift/gondola from Fifth Avenue to Center Avenue would be a unique feature. Get the Port Authority to run the T out Center Ave and build a new stadium and second campus in that area. Combine it with other high tech office park for health care, robotics and other for profit ventures to keep the city fathers happy. Even without a new stadium, the Gondola and T would be a great way to get kids to Heinz.
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I agree and said the same thing regarding Hazelwood to some friends back in the late 80’s.
The Hill/Trees area is one of the only good options now.
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make it part of the Victory Heights plan
But can Pitt raise $250 Million via donations for a $500-$600 Million dollar project
I’m thinking this is what it will cost if you do it right
Theres room up there. will need to demo fitzgerald (create a parking garage there), demo trees, demo cost
It would be very compact but they could also build vertical or below ground to make the best use of the space
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Or buy up the Upper Hill District. It worked for the Civic Arena when they bought up the Lower Hill area.
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Wwb,, thanks for another great “Behind the Curtain” bio! Will their be Ike and UPITT’s in the near future?
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Peak has an article out explaining some of this recruiting.
Our 5 wins didnt help last year
35k yellow seats didnt help
Need to start winning and the recruits will come
But how can Pitt do that with a tough schedule, mediocre coaching and the lack of previous recruiting success? Its like catch 22.
You need to win to get recruits but you need recruits to win
But Capel doesnt seem to be struggling. He can sell kids on the future and the Pete has no yellow seats
What is Narduzzi selling?
My opinion is that until Pitt starts winning 10 games and tarps off the upper decks to hide about 25k yellow seats, Pitt wont see many early signees and will struggle getting 4 stars
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Catch 22
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Dr. Tom,
You really crack me up.
When I first started this blog and I was the only Pitt fan on here that was even in the least negative about Pat Narduzzi and the Pitt football program you were a hundred percent positive about everything…totally optimistic… nothing could go wrong with Pat Narduzzi – nothing.
Now that reality has reared its ugly head a bit and you’ve seen what can happen when your coach might not be everything you think he is in the first place, and his recruiting isn’t as good as you would hope it would be in the first place and how good you thought it was over the last two years.
Now all of a sudden you don’t want to talk about it because other commenters are starting to understand the reality of the Pitt football situation and discuss it the way they see it. And that hurts your feelings apparently.
We’ll be fine in your extended absence. Make it last until Pitt wins a bowl game under Narduzzi. That should be quite a long rest for you.
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It’s SOPophobia he’s suffering from…. 😉
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Hate to see Dr Tom leave for a while but I understand.
Hard to fight the trend lines.
Will Narduzzi reverse the trend in recruiting and get 5 or 6 4 stars this year.
Are there any true freshman that will have an impact this year?
Will we get to, and actually win a bowl game, and end a season on a positive note?
Of course last year we ended with an upset of Miami, positive, but only a bandage on a 5 win season.
The play of Pickett in that game is what really salvaged any hope for this year.
Hoping that he is the guy to turn things around is a lot of pressure on what will be his first full year as a starter. Especially with a suspect O-line, average running backs, receivers and tight ends.
Another year of hoping that some young guys step up, and in the case of guys like Herndon and Dintino, they finally live up to their freshman promise.
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Dintino and Herndon are why I’m so down on the OL and DL.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/connor-dintino-19902
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/mike-herndon-32017
Both guys 3* with truly crap offers (except for one decent in-store school for each kid.)
How soon PC haters forget eh? These are literally the types of recruits they were ridiculing Chryst for getting…and now these players have done absolutely nothing in their careers and are going to be starters as rsSRs under Narduzzi…in his 4th year here.
We may even see both Dintino AND Herndon starting on the OL.
Sorry, but if a HC can’t recruit over players like these two and Shane Roy he has big problems.
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Peak from Rivals:
Why haven’t Pitt’s big win over Miami, promising defense and potential star QB translated into recruiting success?
Let’s ask history.
https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/news/the-recruiting-question
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Tex, that article is misleading.
Wannstedt had the #21st ranked class for 2006 and the #26th ranked class for 2007…For his first recruiting class (of 2005) he had the 38th ranked class.
So he went from classes ranked # 38 to 21 to 26 to 2008’s 28… DW was recruiting just fine before 13-9.
Plus those 21 and 26 ranked classes were coming off losing seasons…
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How is that article misleading? Peak explains that the 13-9 win gave the recruiting an immediate jolt to the recruiting. But he also says that even with the 9 win season in 08, it didn’t carry over to 2009 when Wanny had his worst class at #47. It also stated that PSU had 11 recruits before Wanny got his first in 09 ….. sound familiar?
This is not the 70s or 80s anymore … people. Since the late 80s, Harris had a couple good years as did Wanny … and Narduzzi had a couple (yes0 with help from PC’s recruits, but that’s about it …. really!!
The 90s stunk, the 00s were better but still only one 10 win year, and currently there were only two 8-wn years and everything else was mediocre.
wwb
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stars do matter particularly 5 star recruits
interesting article below
https://247sports.com/Article/Why-college-football-recruiting-rankings-matter-114611388
Pitt is following the Wisconsin and Michigan State model. Get a bunch of 3 stars and coach them up. Thats assuming you do a very good job at evaluating 3 stars with high ceilings. And of course being able to coach on the field (run the right schemes, develop players, place the right kids in the right place at right time for maximum impact), and play a soft schedule.
You have to hit on all three for this strategy to work. I dont think Pitt is good at finding those diamonds in the rough. I dont think Pitt is good at developing players and knowing how best to use them. I dont think Pitt plays a soft schedule.
So what does that tell me? More 5-7 win seasons in the future.
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Interesting article about Home & Home series that “must” happen…
https://247sports.com/Article/From-Texas-vs-AM-to-Alabama-vs-Clemson-College-football-home-and-home-series-that-need-to-happen-118327689
…an they list PSU vs USC !
GEEZ!!
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From an article about college ball…
“Points of emphasis this offseason at Pittsburgh? Improving pass defense (gave up 254.2 passing yards per game last season; 105th best in FBS) and red zone offense (scored on 77.1 percent of red zone trips; 103rd best in FBS).”
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/dp-spt-college-football-one-hundred-things-051718-story.html
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Once in a while Pitt enters a season with a solid group of experienced players. When this happens, we have an 8 win type of season. My gut tells me that Pitt may have such a group of experienced players in 2019. Kind of like NC State had in 2017. IMO, 2018 will be an exciting season with a number of twists, turns and surprises (both good and bad). While i don’t see us winning a lot of games in 2018 (I see 6 or 7 wins), I do think this will be one of the more interesting seasons in a while. And it may set us up for a nice 2019 season.
The D has a new coordinator. The new guy seems to have a backbone and the communication skills to convince Nard to alter the scheme a little if necessary (and it IS necessary). Just my read. I think the 2018 D will be better than 2017, but will take some lumps early in the season against good competition.
The O is a big unknown, but with a young gamer at QB, a tough talented FB, and some potentially exciting receivers we should improve as the season goes on. We will take our lumps early in 2018 IMO.
lumps and all, I’m looking forward to it.
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Yup
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I also think that this will be the first season in a while that we have a couple of guys that are hitters. I’m thinking Reynolds and Wirginis… I know that others have said this as well – we just haven”t had guys that are hard hitters recently.
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We definitely need hitters. All too few in recent years.
I do think that fifth year seniors are a must for good lines.
Hopefully you also have younger stars to go with them.
I give Herndon and Dintino a lot of credit for sticking around and hopefully making the most of their turn.
Especially with the turmoil and turnover, guys leaving early and guys transferring in and out, I consider these guys loyal Pitt Men and wish them the best. But by now these guys should be on a line with other younger solid guys and Narduzzi is bringing in transfers because other recruits have not made the grade.
It is sad that our great O-line lasted one year. It shows why you have to fill the pipeline with good line recruits every year, so that they mature when you need them. You can miss a year or two with the skill positions, but the great teams have great lines every year.
That is the midwests strength, when you look at Iowa, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Wisconsin, tOSU and the Michigans, they always seem to have big strong corn fed linemen.
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Txpanther – Michigan State had, I think, the 15th ranked class in 2018 (or thereabouts). Recruiting improves with wins. Most schools can’t go from where Pitt was to a top 15 program unless they are blue bloods or are in a non-P5 conference. Everyone is worried about UCF next fall but their recruiting rankings the last 4 years are about 40 spots behind Pitt’s. They also lost their entire all star coaching staff … yet most on this board consider them a serious threat.
Pitt can win 8-10 games with a lot of luck. ND, Miami and PSU have clear talent advantages but Pitt has beaten 2 out of those 3 the last two years. And ND’s had pretty significant flaws the last couple of seasons. Pitt recruits about on par or better than everyone else on the schedule. VT recruits a little better but not significantly … VT also loses most head to recruiting battles with PSU by the way.
Pitt does not have the money or resources of Penn State nor did they have the competency required from the athletic department that Penn State had (football not life) nor the required support of the school president or BoT. That is why Penn State has resurrected so quickly.
Name a winning program at any level of sport, professional or college, that does not have a great front office yet wins in spite of it?
The problems at Pitt start at the top. Based on the last few months, I have more hope than I’ve had in a long time that there may be a shift in support. Until that’s 100% rectified, the on the field performance is irrelevant. Changing coaches won’t work unless the we have a competent athletic department to whether another change and rebound quickly. Pitt has shown progress with Lykke but it’s hardly stable enough to recover quickly from a change in football coaches.
Again, let the next two season play out how they will. Unless Pitt goes like 2-10 this season, Duzz will be back next season. Almost all the “positive” posters are in agreement with everyone else that the seat warmer turns on in late August.
Duzz is on his own at this point. This is his team built in his image. Let’s see what it looks like first. I think we’ll see a drastically different offense. Last season’s offense was built around a non-mobile drop back passer. This season the offense will be built around a fiery, mobile QB with a stable of 4 star running backs. Concerns at OL are legit but in college football you can hide the OL … if you’re not married to a particular offense. Which, I think Pitt fans are conditioned to believe we are. I think we’ll see some surprises.
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I agree
But how does Pitt win without support from the top (BoT)
Without A fundamental change in its culture
Without the money resources
Without an on campus stadium
Without very good coaching
Without 4 star recruits
To consistently be a 10 game winner, most if not all of these things need to happen
I just dont see it at Pitt
Pitt’s idea of a front porch will seldom if ever give them ACC championships
I do feel sorry for Pitt’s coaches particularly the competent ones since they are generally set up to fail at a place like Pitt.
I’m not advocating a coaching coach since Pitt needs stability. But if this year goes as planned (6 wins) and if next year isnt much better, Pitt does need to start thinking about change…again.
But yes – I’d love to see the BoT and culture change because without those changes, coaches are set up to eventually fail in this mediocre system.
To me Pitt’s BoT is like Nutting. They dont care about wins or the fan experience. They expect loyalty but show none. All they care about is making a profit on their programs or in Pitt’s case just breaking even.
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Couple questions: I need help here.
How many games has PIT lost this 2018 season and what is their record at the moment? I really get the feeling they are win-less at the moment?
The idea of recruiting Lackawanna players, a good idea or bad? Because I’m confused as hell.
Is it my medication and I’m seeing something that is not there or is the PITT administration presenting itself to be just a little bit of a tad more invested. You know, just a scooch more? A gnats eyelash if you will?
I read a piece presented here on the POV mentioning the serious amount of attrition within the PITT football ranks this past off season. You know “over-recruiting” the outgoing players. I also read where PITT and Narduzzi hasn’t been able to “over recruit” lugs like the three seniors. Is this dam if you do and dam if you don’t? Is it time for my medication already? Come out come out wherever you are b-man. Let’s have a look at you..
I don’t know but I’m guessing since I started this comment, Narduzzi still doesn’t have one dam 4* recruit yet and in fact, I’m betting PITT still doesn’t have a verbal yet? HEATHER!!
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C’mon Ike…when you have two 5th year SR linemen who haven’t played hardly at all, and when the did get is for a series or two made no impact…you damned well sure should have overnrecruited them.
What the OL staff wants is 3rd to 5th year players who have multiple starts to them. Not 1 start between both of those guys in 24 games possible last season.
Dintino – 1 start in 3 years.
Herndon n 1 start in 3 years.
2 starts on the OL in72 possible games.
Should they have been either recruited over or asked not to return for the 5th year? Absolutely!
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The OL argument is overrated in college unless you have a pocket passer … which they had last the last two seasons … the pocket passer is a dying breed, however and Pitt isn’t really recruiting that type any longer … and I don’t think we’ll see the same offense we’ve seen the last two seasons. If they do roll out the same offense, shame on them.
Time to move into the 21st century. Read option, roll outs, quick passes and a quicker pace. That’s how you hide an inexperienced offensive line … and I think we’ll see exactly that. It will be pro-style/spread hybrid.
McVittie, Pickett, Patty and everyone in the recruiting news for Pitt don’t fit that pocket passer mold. Most are read option kids.
I’d wait to see what offensive scheme we roll out first, before judgement.
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Baseball loses 8 of 9 but hey we are going to the ACC Tourney for the first time ever. 12 of 14 teams make it. Like going home with the fat girl with a wooden leg because you were the last choice. Heather??? You fire everyone else so keep it up.
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Tx – If Duzz only wins 6 games this season and next then, yes, I agree it’s time to move on. But it’s not even worth worrying about at this point. This team has so many new faces that we have no idea what to expect.
I’d be willing to bet a large contingent of Michigan St. fans were getting restless with Dantonio too, after going 6-7 with a bottom 5 pass defense in the country, after his 3rd year. He won 11 the next season. Now, I doubt Pitt wins 11 with that schedule but I would seriously not be shocked if Pitt won 9 or 10 games. I also wouldn’t be shocked if Pitt won 5 or 6 games either.
Why? Because there are too many unknowns with this team to even speculate on.
Either way, what some like to call excuses … they’re drying up.
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Narduzzi is no D’antonio
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I didn’t say he was. I only said that we should wait to see what happens first.
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hey upitt, watch what you’re saying about my wife. then again I do do most of the cooking.
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Hahaha
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Between my wife and I we have four legs but hardly a good one. I’m the one that’s fat as well. I weighed 85 lbs as a junior in high school. Life has been cruel to me.
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Reed, I get it. You think these 5th year seniors should have been over-recruited and or told to hit the bricks. Let me ask….. How many practices were you at this past spring? … and no, I’m not being a smart ass, just saying the coaches may have a little more insight about these players than you and I do? .
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That’s an old saw Ike. If you believe that…that coaches shouldn’t be 2nd guessed, then why are you on here?
Really, why?
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Not saying coaches shouldn’t be second guessed on a blog or message board I’m saying that’s what we do. What you don’t realize is that you are first guessing. You can tell me now until doomsday but you will never convince me that Narduzzi will play a kid on favoritism over skill. OR and unless for other reasons unbeknownst to the rest of us all.
Underneath it all I am agreeing with you. Obviously Narduzzi hasn’t found the players to replace some of the older players. You know, the 4* players we all want. 4 and 5* players are more of the type to receive earlier playing time. When a program like PITT which are on a 3* budget in mind and actuality. 3* players are more bound to take more time to grow, mature and blossom into productive starters. I’ll wait and see how the young men play this year. I have some doubts but I don’t have the trepidation as some others do.
BTW, listening to the great podcast Reed and thank you, you know how I enjoy them so.
Hamlin is a kid Narduzzi recruited to PITT that had big time offers elsewhere.
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Hard to celebrate a 12th place finish. But it does beat 13 and 14th.
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My oh my, we’re losing recruits from Ohio to Purdue now.
I’m afraid Nard Dog has a case of the dixon’s. He can’t close, he’s not really a wordsmith, which is what all good salesmen have to be. Listen to Capel and then listen to Nard Dog.
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Purdue hasn’t won 10 games since 1979. The last 10 years they generally have been a BigJoke Doormat.
How do they outsell us ?
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Purdue has like no receivers
Good chance this kid starts as a frosh
He’d be riding the pine at Pitt and red shirted.
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If he was really good(or just good)(or even avg) he could get on the field at Pitt. We’ve started many freshmen WR’s. Tyler Boyd comes to mind immediately. Even guys like Aaron Matthews, Frenchy, Little Q, Ronald Jones, Adonis Jennings, and even somebody as obscure as Chris Wuestner got on the field.
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When comparing what went down at Michigan State to what might go down at Pitt.
One thing needs to be taken into consideration (actually there are more than one) but for now we’ll say one thing.
Dantonio arrived at MSU with Head Coaching and vast recruiting experience, as he was at Cincy as HC.
Nard Dog arrived at Pitt, with neither. As I have no clue how involved he was in recruiting at MSU, as he tagged along with Dantonio from Cincy to East Lansing.
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thats important. Experience as head coach and proven success.
Dantonio started improving dramatically after season 4.
I think some of it was due to Michigan’s downfall during this period
And of course much is probably due to him being a better talent evaluator and coach than who Pitt has
I’d be bum tickled pink if Narduzzi could turn things around and achieve consistent 9-11 win seasons
I just dont think it will happen
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If we get 7 wins this year it will be an achievement, considering the makeup of the O-line, TE’s, RB’s and WR’s. Defense is gonna have to be miami-game-like….not tarhole-game-like.
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Narduzzi is entering year 4. He has experience now. Let’s wait to see what the offense looks like before we start judging this team. Watson is known for adapting his system to his players and has a history of running a hybrid pro/spread offense. He’s now freed from the chains of a drop back passer. He has a mobile QB and can run read option to help counteract an inexperienced offensive line. If they run the same offense as last season, they are in trouble. I really don’t think they will, however. Pro-style and drop back QB’s are a dying breed. I think we’ll see a modern looking offense this season.
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Watson is washed up and has been fired all over the map. He is the equivalent of a 68 year old selling shoes at Hess’s or Bon Ton.
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The Texas, Colorado and Nebraska fans that i work with out here all have said that Watson’s O wasn’t all that great when he coached at their respective schools.. Time will tell if he has success at Pitt, but like UPItt, I’m not all that hopeful.
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The reason 4* Ruben Flowers left Pitt was that he was recruited over.
He saw no way that he was getting on the field.
Got that from a credible inside Pitt source. 3‘s lyke Shockey, Street and Butler were ahead of 4 Flowers.
Interesting…
Maybe there is talent and depth at receiver after all – RaRa Lopes, A.Mathews, Tre Tipton and Ffrench with good experience.
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How many wins do we need to get this year to consider it a successful season?
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8/9
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A bowl win
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Depending on many things but 6-7 or 8 regular season wins.
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Watson was considered pretty good when he had Teddy Bridgewater as his QB at Louisville. Canada with a not too great background as an OC parlayed a one year Peterman led team into a quite substantial contract at LSU. It’s amazing isn’t it just how much better an OC is looked at when he has a much above average QB running his offense.
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Since we had so few WR’s suit up for our Spring game this year it’s hard to evaluate just how productive or unproductive this group might be for the coming season. But many felt I believe that Tasir Mack might have been the best WR of all that played in the Spring. Will Narduzzi & coaches get any credit for getting Mack to transfer to Pitt from Indiana?
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I guess the credit will depend on how Mack fares in the regular season .
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Mack is probably not going to get on reception. He has to sit out a transfer year and while Pitt is petitioning for immediate eligibility, I doubt it happens. You saw last year how much cachet Pitt has with the NCAA when a self-acknowledged cheater was able to get a favorable ruling over Pitt
wwb
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Are you referring to the Cam Johnson bball ruling ? The Tarholes are obviously on ‘favored son’ status.
We are the red-headed step child (apologies to all the red heads that read the PoV)
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Much like Chryst let the defensive recruiting slide and built up the offense (especially o line), sans the qb position, Nard has recruited the defense and rode Chryst’s road graders the first few years. The offense appears above average, at least on paper, at the qb, rb, wr positions. It’s time for Coach Borb’s to bring in some o line talent and get that unit up to snuff.
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Ming has to become a Merciless recruiter, cause it appears we don’t have one.
Unless Watson spreads the field, this offense could struggle mightily. Then the defense must play like they did against Miami not UNC. Now was the Miami game indicative of their weak QB or Pitt’s D. Cause Thug U’s QB was sort of exposed in the last 3 games for them.
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It is still going to come down to how well the O-line performs this year, and next year
Pickett will also need to perform well on the run and his receivers need to come back to the ball.
How many are old enough to remember Fran Tarkenton?
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Fran the man, one of the most entertaining NFL QB’s ever. Was the Viking’s QB in the Steelers first SB. Albeit he was in the twilight of his career by then, but still managed to get the Vikes to the SB.
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This is a good read on Watson and not biased. A good look at each stop and why he had success and failure.
https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2014/8/11/5979165/the-misunderstood-shawn-watson-part-i-an-excerpt-from-the-2014
In college football, the quarterback is the key not the o-line. Especially with the pro-style offense becoming a dinosaur. Way too much is being made of the o-line. You can hide that deficiency in college football.
gc – Per above, I disagree about the o-line 100%. It’s dependent on the scheme of offense that Pitt runs. The o-line is important for drop back QB’s, which we had last season. Pitt has finally cut that cord, however. Ricky Towns is the only pro-style QB on the roster and even he operates mostly out of the shotgun and is mobile. Pitt is currently not recruiting any drop back passers either. All are read option guys in high school.
Read-Option and the incorporation of spread principals counteract the need for an o-line. It’s the 21st century, I wish the pro-style offense would just die already in college football.
I really believe we’ll see a different offense this season.
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I hope you are right, but scheme can only do so much. Guys still have to be able to beat their opponent.
Running lanes still have to opened. QB’s still need enough time to throw.
Receivers need time to get open
Read Option and Spread can only hide so much, plus can our big slow linemen adapt to it?
Football still comes down to blocking and tackling. The team that does it better usually wins.
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No wonder why good QB’s are so rare in the NFL…
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gc – Our offensive line is an unknown. Not sure what you mean by big slow lineman? I just looked at our projected depth chart vs. an uptempo spread attack that Clemson has and they are literally all about the same weight across the board. A mobile QB with a read option freezes the DL and LB’s.
That’s such an old school and cliche response and the definition of the NFL not college football. Winning in this era requires scoring quickly and often and getting turnovers on defense.
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We scored quickly and often two years ago. We had linemen that could move. Bisno, DJ and O’Neil.
In a spread offense fast linemen can go around rather than through slow guys.
I just don’t share your optimism.
First, we don’t even know what the offensive scheme will be.
We do have a bunch of new starters on the line and a new coach.
We are recruiting transfers to fill in holes
We have a first year QB.
While I agree with your statement that “Winning requires scoring quickly and often and getting turnovers” to me I am afraid that sounds more like our opponents than us.
You are saying that we can expect a bunch of new guys, learning a whole new offense to be able to execute effectively, against strong competition, I don’t buy it.
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Concur GC, lots of if’s. Too many if’s. We’ll know quickly, if we struggle against Albany ala YSU last year.
Of course we know what the excuse will be already….’we didn’t want to show Pedo State everything in
our offense.’ Cause they used that one, last year.
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Said this before, but with the way Pitt recruits it bares saying again.
Our offense should be modeled after another school that rarely gets many highly rated recruits. But each year, like clockwork they score lots of points. Their team avg. rivals recruit rating over the last 10 years is only 2.82. Pitt’s is 2.96
Offensive PPG in the last 10 years.
2017 – 34.3 ppg 23rd of 130 schools
2016 – 43.7 ppg 5th of 130
2015 – 45.1 ppg 2nd
2014 – 30.5 ppg 54th
2013 – 35.8 ppg 23rd
2012 – 37.5 ppg 20th
2011 – 33.8 ppg 22nd
2010 – 33.1 ppg 24th
2009 – 37.0 ppg 7th
2008 – 43.8 ppg 3rd
Who is the school ???
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Texas Tech
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That’s a good guess EE…..can’t get much by you 🙂
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Kind of Lyke Marc Fleury of Vegas hockey team. He’s going to the Stanley Cup finals.
Just got back from a long weekend of golf. Trying to catch up with my reading – looks Lyke griz answered the same at 3:24pm – I did not see that or I would have restrained from answering.
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No you were allowed to answer for several hours after the question was posed, my good sir 🙂
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Could be WVU or Northwestern. What’s their won lost records?
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Texas tech?
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You are correct sir, you win today’s prize.
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We’ll let some more peeps take a shot at who is this school, that recruits worse than Pitt, but scores lots of points.
Answer to be revealed at 6:30 pm or so.
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Btw the highest scoring Pitt team ever was in 2016 – 40.9 ppg (10th of 130)
Probably the most entertaining Pitt team offensively and just as comical on defense.
Record held – Highest Scoring Game in NCAAF history: Pitt 76 Syracuse 61 137 combined points.
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Emel. is you could, please include that team’s defensive stats as well if handy. Why I ask that, I believe PITT’s great offense in 2016 actually hurt the defense at the same time. Just a theory of mine. If not that’s fine. ike
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I’ll guess TCU or Boise state
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No high octane for me. Tech has a gimmick offense but no defense. And teams have learned to defend the air raid. I’m for a balanced approach. Get a QB that is mobile. Read quick and make a decision. Blend of west coast and deep ball. Thunder and lightening backs.
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Apparently they can’t defend the air raid. Look at the scoring avg’s per year.
And if you had someone, like supposed Defensive guru like Nard Dog, then it should be a winning combination.
If if if that defense works against a legit passing offense. We saw Baylor absolutely torch it, in Dog’s
last year at Spartyland in that Bowl game.
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I won’t even mention Dog’s Pitt sieve defense the last couple years. Because pretty much everyone torched it unless they had a dreadful QB.
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General La Pickett is a mobile dual threat QB, so a checkmark for that requirement Mr Anon.
We shall see how or if Doc Watson uses his skill set.
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I liken this spread or air raid schemes to what Ga Tech and Navy do. It takes preparation by the D for these different looks and tactics. But ultimately, if you have a stronger and faster D that is disciplined, you will win.
Good defenses will clean their clocks. I’m not talking Pitt.
Now if this Spread offense has althletes, a good D could surrender points. Navy has what they have because they don’t have the athletes. When they do, wow. Ga Tech because it’s a gimmick that teams don’t see often and they don’t have the athletes as well. Gives you an advantage.
But again well trained and athletic defenses stop these gimmicks. Talent wins out in the end.
These spreads only work with the right QB. And I don’t think Pitt has burners for receivers. But I think Pitt has three QBs now in Kenny, nick patti and transfer dude. So funner times ahead.
Tex Techs line though is huge. Bigger than many big ten teams. These kids eat Texan steer. More protein in them cows.
I just wonder how you work in the running game. Your defense will get gased with high octane. Think fraud and Iowa game. Need to control the clock sometimes.
But again these offenses are fun to watch.
Tex
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Oh that’s my buddy Tex. Everyone’s a Anon anymore 🙂 All we need is Q. wait we have a Big Q still.
I think everyone has huge O-line’s anymore. It’s just the state of things. The hugeness has to come
with quick feet or you can just skate around them.
The game has changed though, you gotta keep scoring. You can’t play conservative, you usually end up losing.
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Been busy, what’s the answer Emel?
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Pitt’s lady softball team….
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