220 thoughts on “Pitt vs Clemson BB Game Thread”

  1. I was looking at some stats and found some that fairly starkly illustrate the current state:

    Defensive Efficiency 233
    Opponent Points Per Game 132
    Opponent FG Attempts Per Game 277
    Opponent FG Made Per Game 194
    Opponent Offensive Rebounds Per Game 338
    Opponent Defensive Rebounds Per Game 186
    Opponent Assists Per Game 277

    Pitt Points Per Game 330
    Average Scoring Margin 293
    Offensive Efficiency 319
    FG Percentage 294
    3P Percentage 280
    True Shooting Percentage 234
    3P Attempts Per Game 76
    3P Made Per Game 143
    3P Rate 15
    Offensive Rebounds Per Game 315
    Defensive Rebounds Per Game 224
    Offensive Rebound Percentage 310

    I think for some this confirms what they already suspected. For others it is astonishing. It’s both for me. For example I knew they were poor in offensive rebounding, but near the bottom of D1? Then look at their opponent numbers. Teams feast on second chances and thereby have far more attempts.

    The shooting and scoring numbers are also disturbing.

    Pitt moving to zone 5-6 games ago no doubt helped their defensive numbers. I am thinking of the Cuse, NC State and Miami string of games in particular. Otherwise I would bet that those rankings would be pushing toward 300 or worse.

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  2. Pitt Points Per Game Rank 330

    Hey wait a minute, this can’t be….Coach Alphabets and Buzz and every other coach says Otis is an Offensive Savant.

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    1. Why has that poor son of a gun been assigned to every Pitt game? I’m sure he would like to call a meaningful game at some point this season.

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  6. This is not an improving offense. Why can’t they learn first too pass and make the extra pass. Pitiful!

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  8. With 5 minutes left in the half, the announcer points out that Pitt has more turnovers than baskets made.

    Go figure.

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  13. Tracking at 44 points for the game. We should wear these uni’s all the time, nobody can see
    our school name 🙂

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  16. The worst scoring distribution I can recall >> 3 players with a whopping 3 points each and 1 with 13. No points from the bench. The crazy part of this fiasco is that Clemson is almost playing down to our level.

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  17. Anonymous
    What exactly do you mean when you state ” don’t understand Upitts backing of ks?????

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  21. How has KS not taught these kids to reverse the ball. Stewart had an open 3 if Carr goes to him. They can’t score cause they only use half the court or charge down the lane out of control

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    1. It’s true. Announcers, probably Gminski, have remarked about the lack of ball reversal in other games. I think I may have heard Groat talk about it too. I can still remember my HS coach yelling at us about it.

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  23. at 50-28 the announcer says that Clemson is beginning to run away with it. and he was right … 2 3-pointers later, it’s 56-28

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  25. Noticed before the game that the ESPN power rating gave Clemson only a 98% probability of a win. So the optimist in me says Pitt still has a chance tonight.

    Nope.

    These kids could improve 100% be next year and still lose by double digits.

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  26. What a display of offensive weaponry this coach puts on the floor.

    After 7 minutes gone in the second half, clemscum has made more threes than Pitt has attempted shots.

    Wow!

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  27. A drive 3 passes Stewart hits an open 3, nice. So what’s next Carr dribbles for 28 seconds and throws up an air ball. Just terrible

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  31. we’re lucky that Clemson Center kid has been on the bench most of the game or our
    Center wouldn’t be having a career game.

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  32. Curling is more exciting
    Heather should be impeached if she doesn’t correct this mess immediately
    $10 million in lost revenues per year
    Incaluable damage to the brand

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    1. I actually took a curling class a few years ago, loved it but the nearest curling center is too far a drive to make it a hobby.

      Fun HS sports fact: I also was a damn good fencer …took summer classes in that at CMU two years.

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    1. It’s been a lingering question. I have no idea what Stallings sees in him. His defense is all that good and he doesn’t really offer much in the way of points, shooting, rebounding or blocks.

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  36. lmao….’kevin runs a lot of good actions’

    omg you gotta be kidding me. This non-sense never stops among the coaching fraternity

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  38. Zero improvement in any phase of the game for these kids since they first stepped foot on campus. That’s the most telling fact for this coaching staff.

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      1. Even Dixon got some real stiffs to improve a little. You can teach away mental mistakes like lazy turnovers.

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  40. Believe it or not, I saw Kevin Stallings play for the USA team at the Dapper Dan Roundball Classic @ the Civic Arena in 70’s! He was the starting point guard for USA and had accepted a scholie to play at Purdue when they were a power house.
    Who would of thunk it!!

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  44. Endured Paul-I-can’t-Hackett, Floundering Foge, and Bottoms-up Majors 2, but I can’t/won’t stomach this.
    Yinz guys are sturdier than I am, watching Pitt hoops.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. KS could cost Pitt over $20 million in revenue and branding next year. Buyout is $10 million. Give him $5 otherwise make his life miserable. The man is stealing $2 million each year. I don’t blame him for taking the job. I blame him for stealing.

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  47. Same mistakes over and over. No improvement at all. That’s coaching. I really don’t expect them to win games like tonight, but by now I expected a more competitive game. They don’t play much defense. They never follow a shot and therefore an offensive rebound is an accident. Speaking of accidents, this is now a bonafide train wreck. I do feel for the players, but does anyone really see 10-15 wins next year? Even with Luther, the St. John’s transfer and the 4 star incoming Frosh, we’re lucky to win 3 or 4 ACC games. Attendance will get worse (is that actually possible). The pressure on Heather at that point will be immense. So let’s cut bait now and move on.

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  49. Evidence of Basketball apathy is fact that my 10:18 post was second last of the evening. The napping POVerts you all are!!!

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  50. Reed should show all 4 comments during the game to Pitt Administrators. The fact that there is nearly zero interest during a game shows how much the program has fallen. It can get worse and probably will.

    Allegheny Community College south Campus AD is trying to get Pitt on its schedule for next year. Make the change NOW AD.

    Clemson was missing one of their best players too, right? Embarrassing. There are absolutely ZERO signs that this team as constructed by the offensive savant will be in any better position next year. I will coach for free to help balance the finances. Team will hustle, play defense and rebound.

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  51. ……..where’s the late great Tiger Paul when you need him??????
    Tiger could of coached this team as well and at least fans would fill the Pete to watch him cheer. RIP Tiger.

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  52. For those POVites who are too young to know who Tiger Paul is, go to yahoo and type in “Tiger Paul Auslander”
    Enjoy the read!

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  53. The FAN morning crew calling for a change of coaching for Pitt hoops. All 3 agreed. Jim Colony used the word “disaster”

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Great find wwb. I don’t think many of the games back then were on tv. Pre-cable, you only had the 3 major networks and UHF Channel 53. If any were on they were on Channel 4 WTAE, but I only remember watching Pitt beat St. Joe’s and then Furman and then having to play eventual national champion, NC State on their Home Court in an Elite 8 game, where David Thompson was carried off the court.

      I think we won 22 straight games that year before losing to another Carolina team, on the road, at South Carolina when they had future ABA/NBA star Alex English and i believe Mike Dunleavy.

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      1. Emel, I was courtside at Old Rec Hall when the 22 game streak was broken on a buzzer beater. Funny, that the streak was sandwiched in between a WVU and PSU loss. Yea, I remember only seeing a handful of games, and the Thompson injury … but done in by the midget Towe and the giant Burleson. .. (Or whatever the proper terms are.) As I remember NC State played their entire NCAA Tourney in the satte of North Carolina including the title game

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  55. Am I a bad fan or have I had a moment of clarity? This season, I had watched every minute of every game except for this one. I watched the first five minutes and then quit. My wife asked me why I wasn’t watching. My answer was simple: this isn’t fun anymore. Sports is supposed to be fun…if I had to watch the Clemson game, that would be the same as going to work…not fun.

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  56. Funny, if Pitt took its last search more serious it wouldn’t be in this situation. Now the school and fans are pissed that a group of first-year players are struggling? Comical. Now there are rumors MSU is going to come after Lyke for its A.D. position. No wonder Pitt sucks in athletics, it has been a Mickey Mouse operation for decades now.

    All will cheer when Stallings is fired after this season, then all will be pissed when the new coach is hired because they won’t know his name. What a joke fanbase that continues to think Pitt is a hoops school. It is not.

    It could have continued building toward one, but Nordy and Gallagher made sure it didn’t;t happen.

    Thanks, geeks.

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  57. Tiger Paul’s cheerleading career ended, as the Pitt cheerleading coach had him banned from the Field House. You see he got the crowd much more involved in the game then the cheerleaders did. And she
    couldn’t handle that.

    So Tiger Paul was given the boot. At least that’s the way I remember it.

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    1. wasn’t there a controversy about that? The cheerleaders who always resented him and finally got him banned, which teed off some of the FB players who would then walk on the floor and do their own cheers to the delight of the fans

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  58. Huff, I sure will if you do a a bit of groundwork for me.

    Go back over a bunch of games in chronological order and count the number of in-game comments we have on here. Show how interest has waned.

    Get that info, post it or send me it though email and Ill do a formal letter to the AD and Chancellor.

    Before I send it I’ll ask for readers BB input to include.

    You do leg work and I’ll be the voice…

    Fair?

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  59. I think Pitt admin would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not know what the fans think at this point.

    But action is better than apathy, and a strong voice should matter. I have heard they are very aware of what this has done to them financially. They have bean counters of course.

    The big question is can they attract a quality coach that can recruit and coach quality players in a rapid fashion. Hope they have their feelers out.

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    1. GC. I think Pitt Admin was and has been deaf dumb and blind starting w the 3 day media anger fest before KS was hired. They did not care then but I’ll bet they do now!!

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  60. KS is simply dead man walking but he is an expensive DMW. Next year Pitt can be as good as OK with the ST Johns transfer and Luther back. Also the could be improvement in some of the freshman year over year here. So I go with him save 6 million in sunk cost plus no one hired will bring immediate full houses anyway. It will take time to bring the program back to relevance but two years form now, a really good coach with now many players who have gained experience maturity and so that would be my plan.

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  61. I have no faith Pitt will fix the KS debacle. You know what will follow the KS firing? Pitt announces they have replaced KS with some no name career assistant….probably from Ohio State.

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  63. Info on the “Forever GI Bill”

    https://explore.va.gov/events?utm_source=govdelivery&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=february-education-event_2.8&utm_term=header-image-page&utm_content=events-application-all-null

    Some highlights:

    Some new provisions that go into effect immediately include:

    The 15-year time limitation to use Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits is eliminated for Veterans who left active duty on or after January 1, 2013, children who became eligible for the Fry Scholarship on or after January 1, 2013, and all Fry scholarship eligible spouses.

    We are now authorized to restore benefits and provide relief to Veterans affected by school closures or disapprovals. Learn more and apply here.

    Reservists who had eligibility under the Reserve Educational Assistance Program (REAP) and lost it due to the program sunset provision will have that service credited toward the Post-9/11 GI Bill program. We are in the process of identifying the approximately 2,800 Reservists affected by this and will send them letters with instructions.

    Certain work-study is permanently authorized; previously it had to be re-approved by Congress every few years.

    Anyone eligible for GI Bill can use their benefits at an accredited independent study program at an area career and technical school, or a postsecondary vocational school providing postsecondary level education. There is no action for you to take here, as these programs will go through the normal course of approval by the appropriate State Approving Agency. Any new programs will be added to our GI Bill Comparison Tool.

    The VetSuccess on Campus program will be available to students across the country

    VA will help Veterans to more clearly identify schools that offer them priority enrollment

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  64. Pitt is like the Pirates … as the Pirates’ GM has spending restrictions so does the Pitt AD.

    Meanwhile, Michigan can send their team to Rome for spring practice… this year it’s Paris after spring practice

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  65. Paraphrasing from PSR writer Mitchell Northam…Pitt hoops lacks talent on the court, on the bench and on the coaching staff…ouch. Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?

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  66. Yep, it’s time after this season is over. The only way PITT could get away with keeping KS is to announce the plans for a new on campus stadium and then even then?

    Liked by 1 person

  68. Iek…if you hear 2 goofballs chanting “OCS…OCS” at the hoops game Sunday it’s me and Scooter.

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  69. I do not have a PG account but here is a lead-in to a current story. Take it for what it’s worth .. but t does touch a subject that has been touched upon here ….

    Pitt and Penn State signed strong recruiting classes without elite WPIAL talent

    Instead, both the Panthers and Nittany Lions found ways to expand the map to talent-rich states outside their traditional pipelines.

    Now I know many here will scoff at calling Pitt’s class strong … but the point is that Pitt is much more reliant on the WPIAL while PSU often has their pick of the rest of the state

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    1. wwb – if you want to read something on the PG, just open up a new incognito window. You’ll be able to read 3-4 articles and then it will shut down. Then, just close that window, open a new incognito window, and you can read 3-4 more. repeat as often as necessary

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      1. thanks, I had to google ‘incognito window’ to find out what it was and how to get to it … but now I understand both

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        1. I just read that article using your method but noticed that in the URL area it listed “Not Secure”

          Is that something to worry about?

          Meanwhile, here is an excerpt from that article … “It’s no coincidence that both programs have trended toward mediocrity since their glory days of the 1970s and 1980s. Western Pennsylvania has hemorrhaged population since that time, and the football talent has suffered as a result. Some years have been better than others, but there’s little question the pool is shallower than it used to be.”

          Obviously, Pitt is more affected here .. while PSU hasn’t been as mediocre as Pitt has since the glory days

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          1. Just means that the sight is HTTP instead of HTTPS…no worries as long as you’re not buying, signing up for anything, or entering any personal info. As long as your going to a known and reputable site (PG, tribe, POV, Blather, etc.), no worries on the “not secure”

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  70. Let’s face it, KS will be back next year. If they cut him loose earlier, it would reinforce the common belief that Pitt won’t stand behind its coaches. Who exactly would they get to replace him? Would he come cheap? If we are looking to hire a first year coach from some mediocre lower level program then so be it. But the ACC is a tough venue to break into, and we will be back here in another two years saying that the new coach is in over his head. There is no other solution but to ride this out for two more years to give KS a chance to develop this team.

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    1. Sorry Voice….that is not reasonable at all. There’s nobody on the current roster that if they leave will matter much. So you cut your losses now and say bye bye to Otis and wish him well (sort of) in retirement.

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  71. Please…When has the P-G ever written anything even remotely negative…or even realistic… about Pitt football in the last five years?

    Saying this class is strong isn’t easy when their lips are firmly attached to Narduzzi’s ass.

    Look, we can make every excuse for Narduzzi’s recruiting we want but it just doesn’t change the fact that Pitt had the best positives going for it in a long time to haul in really good recruiting classes…

    Two eight win seasons, lots of players in NFL camps, the hype and energy surrounding Narduzzi, etc. and still the last two classes have severely underachieved.

    Honestly, doesn’t it make fans nervous that the more Narduzzi recruits we have starting and on the two deep the worse we have played…and that was with decent kids in the ’15 and ’16 classes.

    He has to do very much better than he has in recruiting if we ever want to sniff double digit wins or ACC championships.

    If not and he keeps doing this level of recruiting and we’ll have SOP for sure…or worse as we did in ’17.

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    1. OK Reed, I get it. Only your stats, references, explanations, reasoning, etc is valid here. It’s our site so I guess you rule.

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  72. With all due respect to the above comment and Reed. In my opinion, you are wrong. The recruiting is fine, Narduzzi just needs to be a better game day coach and what he’s done with the coaching changes leads me to believe that’s his plan. The best leaders not only know their foes weaknesses but there own. << Sometimes this concept takes awhile for a new head coach to grasp, I think it has in the case of HCPN. .

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    1. Well you are one for “trusting the process” even though any other HC would have fired Conklin way earlier.

      What has he shown you to have you put so much trust into what he’s doing?

      He’s on a downward trend on the playing field and in recruiting… I hope he turns it around but I have to see it happening.

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      1. Reed, you reference the NFL classes above as a reason for Narduzzi’s success … but explain why only one of them (Price) was defense .. and he wasn’t a PC recruit.

        It is hypocritical to credit the offense success to PC but blame the defensive shortcomings on Conklin … nut you refuse to acknowledge it

        And for this past year, again where were the productive 4th and 5th year Pitt players in which players like Pitt, Wisconsin, etc are always dependent on?

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        1. The first two years was all PC recruits. Our D sucked thanks to PC and Conklin. If our offense wasn’t great, PN would have only won 4 games and not 8. PN inherited a great offense and blew it with defense which is his forte. Talk about stupid.

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      2. A downward trend in recruiting?!? He just brought in the #36 ranked recruiting class in the country (using the site you require) after a 5-win season(!), a half empty stadium (at best), and a recruiting budget, payroll and salary that is likely outside the top 100 in comparison. That is not a downward trend…it is incredibly positive considering all the circumstances. And it may go up if they can bring in Kiy Hester (although not sure if grad-transfers affect that in any way)

        You guys that think were going to bring in a half-dozen 4-stars, and a couple 5-stars every year are not living in reality. We will never recruit at the level of the Pedos, Michigan, OSUcks, Alabama, etc…

        Would I like to get a few more 4-stars in there? Sure. But that won’t happen until we start winning and hopefully filling Heinz Field to at least 3/4 capacity, and investing more in the staff and their resources.

        Considering all of the circumstances working against him, HCPN is overachieving by a large margin when it comes to recruiting.

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        1. Vandy and Cindy got four 4 stars each. Wanny routinely got plenty and achieved ten wins. You won’t sniff ten without four stars. Elites have at least half of recruits at four star and above. Pitt needs to get to 30 percent. This year was 5 percent. We suck.

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    2. Recruiting is not fine. One last minute four star. Vandy and Cincy has 4 times as many Four stars. Pitts recruiting sucks. Pitt needs game changers. 4 and 5 star recruits are game changers. Let’s target at least three on each side of the ball each year. Remember PN was 0 for 100 something in 4 star offers. That’s horrible. No glossing lipstick on that pig.

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  75. I don’t believe in this one year is a trend thought. Just like Narduzzi has lost everyone of his two bowl games. For me, that just doesn’t add up. Now not having won a bowl game in 3 years starts to make more sense as a trend but just a little. I’m telling you friend, this coming year, I will have more of a scrutinized eye towards the football program.

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    3. Stunning that mr. pretzel logic himself is dumping on somebody else.

      Particularly somebody who hadn’t even posted anything with regard to the current debate.

      What happened? Did Reed or Upitt post something you found offensive about St Pat that got your panties in a bunch?

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      1. what a hypocrite … what did you contribute to the current debate, or for that matter, to yesterday’s FB discussion? Instead, it was dumping on me.

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  77. 36 ranked class is decent. PN needs to get into the Top 25. A couple 4 stars each class is realistic to me.

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    1. That sounds about right. We play in a half empty stadium. Time to build a smaller one of our own. Otherwise tarp the upper decks for the next ten years. It’s heathers job to get fannies in those seats. She isn’t doing a good job. And she’s not good at fundraising. Why is she our AD again. Because she’s cheap and is a yes woman. Thank you BOT.

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    1. But whisky is a more stable program and they have the money to pay for coaches. They can succeed with three stars. Pitt cannot.

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      2. I like it, I have always proposed that they give them the seats surrounding the 50 yd line behind the players bench kind of like the Zoo, best seats in the house. This is a decent alternative, which won’t cost as much money. Put them where they can make the most noise. At least they are making an effort.

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    2. Copied from the internets….

      As a 2017 Pitt Football Season Ticket Holder in the 100 level of the North End Zone we wanted to make you aware of specific seating configuration changes that will be made for the 2018 season. As a result of many diligent and positive discussions with our Fan Committee, our student leaders of the Panther Pitt, and Pitt Athletic representatives, we will augment the Panther Pitt student section to run the width of the Lower North End Zone. This change will strengthen our game day presentation and experience for all fans, students, and student-athletes while attending Pitt football games at Heinz Field. By clicking the link below, you will find our new seating configuration for the 2018 season.

      Please click here:

      http://pittsburghpanthers.com/…/2018_Football_Map_and…

      WE WILL CALL YOU
      This process will take place prior to the start of our Season Ticket Holder renewal campaign, which allows you access to relocate your season tickets into any available seating locations that were not sold during the 2017 season. In order to have the best seating locations available to you, we strongly recommend speaking with a Panthers Ticket Office representative by February 21st.

      *Phone calls from the Panthers Ticket Office will begin today, February 9th. If you receive a voicemail from the Panthers Ticket Office, please return the call as soon as possible as we will continue to call other fans. Expect a call from (412) 624-4444.

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  82. Tex, with all respect, your comment is all over the place.

    First you say PITT needs to target at least three 4* on each side of the ball and then you say Narduzzi was 0-100 in recruiting 4* players. Sounds like he’s targeting the players all right.

    …. I really don’t care what Cincy and Vandy are doing much. Plus the word fine doesn’t mean all that great. Actually the word fine is commonly misused all the time. << Which I did. ike

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  83. We all would like to see Pitt recruit like Alabama, Clemson, PSU and tOSU, but realistically Narduzzi is recruiting about as well as can be expected. Considering our budget, our record, our fanbase expecting a whole lot more is unreasonable.We have to hope that he is a good enough coach to get the most out of what he has. The recent upsets have been encouraging and he has won most of the games you would expect him to win. We will again be an underdog in the majority of games this year. An eight win season would show he is heading in the right direction.

    It really sucks that other than PSU the home schedule is really weak , so we need some big road wins. Heather has her work cut out for her filling those yellow seats.

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  84. Unless Pitt recruits four stars, it will continue to be mediocre because the coaching isn’t great. It needs a 30 percent ratio. We are at 5 percent. Elites are at 50 plus. Penn state at 80 percent. We need to recruit better. Much better. A three star average won’t cut it. I don’t care if these three stars were just a decimal away from a four. Every school has those. You are still a three. We suck at recruiting. Find a solution. Don’t deny the problem.

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    1. You know, we can argue about the value of this class for the next 6 months (and probably will) … but no matter what any of us say, we really won’t know how good this class is until at least the 2020 season.

      But here is some food for thought … while we get on average 21.25 commits per year (with an average rating of slightly more than 3 … we bring in 5 walk-ons per year (I believe that is the limit). On our starting line-up at the beginning of the year was the following walkons:

      Jimmy Morrisey — beat out 3-star Dintino

      Sean Idowu — leading tackler the last two years

      George Ashton — the legend

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      1. TX, I can’t find where Cincy signed 4 4* players? << I’m sure it’s out there somewhere. BTW, whose recruiting service are they ranked 4*?

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        1. Rivals
          Could have been a good year in the Cincy area
          But it’s been a bad past two in wpial and next year as well.
          Need to expand recruiting footprint. Branding is everything. And knowing how to recruit. Something is broken at Pitt. You offer 100 plus four stars and only get a 1 percent hit rate?

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          1. Hey Tx, would it make you feel better if Narduzzi only offered 2 4* players and got 1? That’s a 50% hit rate.

            I checked Cincy commit list as best I could and only found 1 4*. Of their 19 recruits 13 or 14 were from Ohio and 3 from Illinois and 2 from Florida.

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            1. Penn state has 80 percent of recruits four star or above. I’m saying let’s get Pitt to 30 percent from 5 percent.

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      2. Ohio has more D1 recruits and maybe the Cinci area had a strong year. You can always point out schools that are having good years. Like I said before we would all want to see more four star guys.

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  86. If you look at the teams that average 30K to 40K per game….well, Pitt is pretty much the same as those schools. It is what it is until they unleash $$$$.

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  87. PSU in 23 recruits had 7 from PA. Declining Pa football is real. The less they have the better their ranking. Now as to Pitt recruiting. Pitt is 36 by Rivals. Now do some math. How many programs can Pitt outrank every year? SEC has 10 that will being in better classes. ACC maybe 4 each year. Big Pretend maybe 5. Big 12 probably 6. Pac 12 probably 5. So add up the advantage s of conference, location, money, name and you have probably 30 that will recruit better than Pitt. Narduzzi winning improve some odds here, Can Pitt sneak into a top 25 yes. But the simple facts are those suggesting Pitt can be a top 20 is wishful thinking. getting 30 to 35 ranked classes every year and Pitt with really good coaching and development can win 9 to 10 games and win the coastal. In fact I predict Pitt will win the coastal in 2019 with Pickett.

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    1. I hope that Pitt indeed wins the Coastal in ’19.

      But, Miami added another top ten class this year to go with last years. Miami will have the horses to dominate the Coastal for the next couple of years. Though they may not have the coaching…

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  88. It looks like Pitt is now poised to move into Texas more and is already actively involved in Florida. The new coaching staff seems to be better at expanding recruiting into these areas, including Washington DC, Maryland and NJ. If they can just pick off a couple of homeboy 4 stars each year from PA and then get the rest from these other hotbeds then the recruiting should get better over the next few years. PN is learning on the job coaching wise, and has avoided the ugly losses that hit Wanny and others. The program is on the upswing and will just take some time..

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  89. Idowu is the leading tackler simply because everyone else is lousy.
    And please don’t tell me about Whitehead, who is a shadow of his freshman-self.
    Who on the defense would start for a top 10 (or 20) team?
    Throw in HCPN’s obstinance to stop the run, despite playing a pass-happy team (see OK St), and we were doomed.
    Oh wait, it was the lack of QB play.
    Or the lack of a quality OL.
    Again, the buck stops at the top.

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  90. Well, Narduzzi had five 4* recruits just two years ago under the same constraints (now apparently excuses) so why in hell shouldn’t he be able to grab six blue chip kids?

    https://pittsburgh.rivals.com/commitments/football/2016

    Has the support changed in two years? No. If anything the recruiting resources are better hence him flying around in private jets the last two weeks.

    Has PA football changed in two years? No.

    Has the fan support changed? No.

    What has changed is that we went from landing five 4* kids to three 4s to one 4 … and from 8 wins and 8 wins to 5 wins.

    And we went from a good bowl game (loss) to an average bowl game (loss) to no bowl game.

    Now, if anyone as a fan cannot see those are all downward trends they are lying to themselves.

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    1. Is it a downward trend or just a down year. We only won five games and no bowl, not exactly a year that would make kids want to sign on the dotted line. Does one bad year on the field mean a trend? Especially with that schedule and no QB. A very weak WPIAL class. There are issues but let’s see how this class does before we condemn it.

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  91. Pa is dead. Need to expand recruiting. That’s one thing I like about the Dog. Virginia, Maryland, Carolinas and Florida are key. Even Ohio and jersey. Need better inroads for EPA as well…Nitter country. Need elites or else Pitt can’t compete. I’m not sold on the coaching staff developing players and coaching them up.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hit the link.

      I know what you are getting at. 3* players get in trouble, injured, etc, also.

      Are you saying you don’t want blue chip kids Ike, even though we know without a doubt that most great performers and star players for Pitt have been 4* & 5* kids?

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  93. Chet, that 2006 class was the nucleus for 9 wins in ’08, 10 wins in ’09and 8 wins in ’10… The best football we have seen since the early ’80s.

    And four of those 4* recruits; Berry, Otah, Byham, Dickerson were either All-American or All- BE. All four went into the NFL.

    Aaron Smith was severely injured early on andCollier transferred out.

    Not sure what your point is there. Four great performers out of six 4* kids is excellent.

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    1. Wanny and his BE schedule. He never played a team like OK ST, never played the niits. Never played a team like Clemson. His record was not nearly as good as the math. Who did he beat? Lost to many games to inferior talent. Never recruited a QB worth spit. He got Shady, a couple nice RB’s and that’s about it. Pitt had talent, but to suggest he is the goal here is not good thinking. Narduzzi will have better teams going forward. Hell Walt had better teams to me. Remind me what was Wanny;s signature win? A upset of the err’s when Pat white got hurt. One f’n win Reed. Pitt has 11 out of 20 5.7 ratings or better. that is very good. Wanny also got a lot of low 3 stars as well

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  94. Pitt needs to develop more recruiting ties within the ACC’s Southern Footprint. Specifically Georgia, which is fast becoming and has been a very fertile area. Along with another area, that isn’t on the level of Georgia, yet but it’s trending upwards with North Carolina’s population explosion. And Florida of course, goes without saying.

    The ACC’s Footprint is much more fertile than the BigJoke’s Footprint, so this is where Pitt needs
    to concentrate it’s efforts.

    States of Interest in the Rivals Top 250 HS prospects

    2017

    Pa – 7 in Top 250
    Ohio – 10
    Carolinas – 10
    Virginia – 7
    Georgia – 23
    Florida – 37

    2018

    Pa – 6
    Ohio – 9
    Carolinas – 15
    Virginia – 4
    Georgia – 28
    Florida – 46

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  95. NO Reed, I’m definitely on record as saying I would prefer them. I am happy you got my drift on those 5 4* recruits though as they are not the beginning or end of the story …..

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  96. Bottom line. Pitt sucks at recruiting. If you Yinzers want 6-8 win seasons, three stars are fine. If you want 10-12 win seasons, you’d better get 4 stars. The math is real simple. I’m now a Texan so math is easy for me. 🙂

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    1. lol Tex….#36 really isn’t that bad for a team that finished 5-7, no bowl movement, not many Top 25 finishes in the last 35 years and no Campus Stadium and not much support from the Board of UnTrustables

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      1. It isn’t bad. But what recruits are going to be game changers. Most four and five stars can take over a game and dominate. That’s what Pitt needs. Just two to three each year on each side of the ball. They don’t need 16 four stars like the pedos. 6-8 will do just fine. 30 percent ratio.

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        1. I predicted Q-Tip was going to be a star before he ever put on a Pitt uni.

          From this class I predict, Shocky Jacques-Lewis will be a game changer. And probably Houdini as well.

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  97. As ike said previously, and I agree, it was a good class, not great. It was the kind of class that won’t hurt you if you get lucky and the kids develop in the positions of need. However, Reed is right that Pitt cannot build a consistent winning program on 3 star recruits. Even in Texas they can do the math! Next year will be the critical one- all excuses are over. There must be progress made or it will be 6 wins for the foreseeable future…

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  98. We can get a 50 percent ratio with an on campus multi purpose rec center, a BOT without Nitters and bureaucrats and a real AD. 20 years in Texas has also taught me to dream.

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  99. Pitt had 10 players rated a 5.7 by Rivals. 5.8 is a 4 star.

    Let’s not get carried away here gang by 1/10th of a point. A lot of this rating stuff is purely sports politics.

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    1. These are at least high three stars. But many other schools can claim the same thing. Jury still out on pitt developing these players and using them in the right way. Until pitt wins the coastal, we are just SOP. Legit four stars make the difference.

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  100. Last year was tougher because there were so many quality WPIAL players and we barely got our share, including Ford.

    This year there weren’t many and we missed on the big two.

    But Narduzzi seems to be making some headway nationally, which is tougher because of poor profile.

    Lot of headwinds when you play in a half empty stadium and win only 5 games with a huge upset vs Miami.

    Really difficult road schedule this year, so things don’t get any easier.

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  104. Emel is right about the South. We need more coaches with southern accents, like Johnny and Jackie.

    I think I counted Clemson with 5 fives and 5 fours.

    Maybe there are more players in Italy like Baldonado

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  105. Pitt needs a southern strategy. Many recruits down south have parents from the northeast. Pitt can be an attractive destination.

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  107. I don’t know if there is any scientific evidence but I would think a young player from Texas would be more difficult to sign to come to Pittsburgh than it would be for a kid from Florida? Not just PITT but I really don’t see a lot of kids from the southwest playing in the northeast. I do see many kids from Florida playing football all over the northeast though. or maybe i put a little too much thought into it?

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    1. You are correct. No kid from Texas is going to Pitt. Pitt gets 1 every five years and then they leave after a year or two. Just like trying to recruit in Cali. Its a lost cause.
      A kid from Florida maybe because Pitt plays Miami and Fl State.
      Easier for states within the same conference
      Tons of talent in Texas but it aint going East
      Pitt needs to focus within 300 miles first
      Then expand out in the ACC footprint

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  108. Players are more developed down south due to constant playing year round and much better coaching. A frosh coming from the south has a better chance to play right away than any recruit from the North given similar stars. And yes, a 3 star in Florida or Texas is more like a 4 star in the WPIAL. The WPIAL is vastly over-rated. And dont give me this Donald or Revis crap. They are anomalies. You want consistent elite recruits, you wont find them in PA year after year. PA has produced crap over the past 2 years and 2019 is no better. PA is dead. The South has risen and Pitt better go there to find recruits or Pitt will be dead.

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  109. 25% of Pitts recruits this year were from WPA. Thats it. It wont get any better going forward. Its a global economy for recruits these days. Christ we’re pulling players from Italy now.

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  110. You would think teams in areas where there are Bojangles and Mellow Mushrooms would appeal to players to the ACC. No wonder Pitt can’t get any local 4-star

    But on the other hand, there are Primanti’s in the midwest, Eastern PA, Maryland, WV and Florida

    But seriously … the point I have been trying to make is not only are there less 4-stars, but overall, there are just less and less D1 local prospects …. and also in Pennsylvania, there has been a big change where the prospects are found from the west to the central and east. Not only did that affect the current staff’s recruiting, it affected the previous few staffs. (It just happened that there were only 2 locals this year)

    And sadder yet … this is an ongoing trend that is not likely to change. The decision to focus more out-of-state is a very valid one … but it is even harder to sway top prospects away from the heart of SEC and ACC country

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    1. Much harder to sway kids from the south to come up north even if they are in the ACC and parents can view them on TV and travel distance isnt too far. But its not impossible.

      WPA had only 20 D-1 recruits. A single high school in Texas can get 20…I jest a bit but its not too far from the truth. Pitt needs to expand its reach in recruiting. It has over the past few years so they arent ignorant. But WPA will never be like the old days.

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  111. Pitt’s recruiting has changed significantly over the passed 6 years but I can’t recall any wailing and gnashing of teeth over the recruiting class in the past like this year.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. NC and VA will be climbing that list real fast given growth rates. PA will be out of the top ten within 5 years.

      But PA does produce some very good quality. Just not enough quantity particularly in WPA.

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  114. Reed.

    Let’s have some fun..

    You create a contest, any contest, just make it “Pitt-related.”

    And then.. the winner gets to BAN one poster for eternity.

    I already know who goes when I win! (Not you Ike. You’re safe, buddy!)

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  115. Thanks Jay, if I win I’ll give amnesty to everyone on the POV. but I get to save my go straight to jail card just in case…. 🙂

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  116. Why worry, in 20 years football as a sport will be mostly dead. Might be 25 teams still playing. Then the South will have to find something else. It will go the way of NASCAR, Burtal and unsafe sport, maybe we will say”Rich-mans sport, poor mans players”.

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  118. We started studying demographics 5 years ago. The number of graduating high school seniors in 5 years takes a huge drop. This is why the big10 took Rutgers and Maryland. It wasn’t about television sets. It was about opening doors to students in the coastal states. Pitt has the same access to data. Study it!

    Understand where in Florida the population is going to boom and start planting recruiting seeds. Understand Georgia the same way. The DATA is available. You just need to outwork your competitors. We have been lazy in this area.

    Having one 4 star doesn’t hurt Pitt next year. It hurts 2-3 years from now. Just like the 4 stars that didn’t see any time last year. Let’s not misinterpret the data. The result of minimum 4 stars plays out in two to three years from now, not last years results. We are now in year 3 of Narduzzi. His first class of 4 stars should be playing this coming year.

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    1. Agree BigB – those that know him say Devin Danielson is a workout freak. With Aaron Donald’s close ties with Pitt and the fact that he (AD) works out at the Southside Facilities, means at least two workout freaks could meet up and pursue greatness together.

      Football games are won by teams not individual 4* players.

      The list of failed 4* Pitt recruits over the past ten years is mind numbing. Failed meaning, not living up to expectations when initially recruited. Whether that be health related (George Hill), injury (Hamlin) or performance (Whitehead – on and off the field).

      I see this current team having the most depth in the past ten years of any Pitt team. It’s up to Duzz and his staff to turn this team into champions. I’m rooting for them to do their jobs. Turning boys into men, on and off the field.

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      1. Funny that you mention Donald and Danielson. Now I’m not at all saying Danielson will not be the next Donald, but watch his highlight films. What pops out to me ASAP is how quick he is off the ball …. almost like he knew the snap count. This is the very first thing that I noticed from Donald when I saw him on TV playing at Penn Hills.

        Again, it’s unfair to say he will be the next Donald … but to me they share that same trait

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      2. Well, take a Look at the failed 3* kids also. Attrition happens. But the majority of star players who really carried teams on their shoulders at Pitt have been 4* and 5* players.

        I’m drafting an article about that for posting today.

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  122. On a positive note tailgate recruiting went well last year. We received commitments from fans in Kentucky, Ohio, West Va. Maryland, Massachusetts,and with coach Bernie’s hard work, North Carolina. Most of our 3 star recruits continue to come from Western Pa but I promise you we are going to focus on acquiring much needs speed from Florida and Texas. RICHMAN has reached out to Heather and we expect an announcement for increased funding any day now. I’m confident we can return to having our tailgate classes in the top 25 nationally. Sure, it’s a tough road with many barriers…crappy parking lots, limited access to electric outlets, limited access to parking passes…but damn it we have access to a mass transit rail system that drops you off RIGHT NEXT TO THE POV TAILGATE…focus on the positives. Like my man Iek. H2P.

    Liked by 1 person

  123. Aren’t we glad we stick with Rivals.com – ESPN has Salahuddin as a 3* recruit…

    http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/221/class/2018

    This is why I ask that we use a single site as a standard on here. I posted yesterday the swings between sites as to our class ranking – one had us at 56th.

    It is just so much easier to be on the same page with these discussions… and i think Rivals is the best of the bunch – and truth be told they seem to be the most generous toward Pitt’s recruits (although that isn’t why I use them). They are the most consistent also.

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    1. Hey, even if a player is a high 3 just round it up and call it good! However that is not applicable for other programs.

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  124. Thanks Reed…I enjoy all the recruitment banter. I used to be a recruiter for a treatment of psychosis study. Had to recruit people suffering with schizophrenia for the study. Ridiculously hard but very rewarding.

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  127. Narduzzi has upgraded the DB’s, DT, Still nice TE group. RB’s are good. QB is light years better with Pickett and Patti. WR not sure. OL is an issue for sure but at least there are bodies unlike the prior regimes. DE is getting better with numbers and options. so all in all, lots of holes that Narduzzi came into is getting much better. He brought in Pederman. did Brown work no, but he was proactive. Same with OL at least he adds. turn around for the D was last year. Turn around for the O this year It is coming together.

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    1. The upgrade made at defensive end with guys who stand 6-foot-5 excites me under Narduzzi. The days of converting a transfer fullback to defensive end are over. The defensive tackle rotation a year older should be much better in 2018, plus three good prospects in this class who can redshirt.

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    1. Buckeyes gave him $24 million to come coach. Rumor was Gallagher wouldn’t meet the USC coach’s demand of $3 million per. Hopefully the BoT learned if you go cheap you get a disaster like Stallings. I won’t hold my breath that Pitt opens the wallet for a hoops coach since it hates athletics but loves the conference checks that are cut.

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  129. ItN, I heard that same story from someone that has knowledge of some of the goings on in the college coaching fraternity. He said that Enfield “really wanted” the Pitt job, but Pitt was not willing to pay fair market value for his services.

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    2. I believe it. He is from PA and maybe wanted to coach in the ACC. Good for Andy for not caving to a likely “prove it” contract from Gallagher and Barnes.

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  130. I concur …. especially SOP. Funny, I did not hear the part in Stallings’ hiring press conference that a total program rebuild was to take place

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  131. Time to go after Enfield again, Pitt. Nah, let’s hire an assistant and give him the old “Prove It” contract.

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