Here is a quick look at the inside Pitt football fan’s heads done by our commenter Hobie…

The more I read the Pitt POV, the more I realize that the blog’s articles and fellow POVers’ comments reflect my dual psyche about Pitt football. Reading the POV is like reading my own mind. Maybe it’s like reading yours too. Let me explain.

I really enjoyed Dr. Tom’s article: Preaching to a Tough Congregation.  Revisiting past great players (Ditka, Dorsett, Marino, Fitzgerald and more recent ones too) and victories against long time opponents West Virginia, Penn State and Notre Dame was wonderful. The past three to four decades are not all discomfort and yoi.  I expect Pitt will have more great players and nationally significant victories in the future, maybe even the near future.

When I read GC’s article: Power is Everything, I scratched my head as GC seems to be doing wondering about the excellence of current recruits and the quality of the depth of the supporting players.  I think we play a challenging enough schedule.  Remaining healthy, who knows?  GC concludes by drinking, not to the present, not to the future, but to the past Pitt greats who’ll be enshrined in Canton.  Skoal, GC.

These articles seem to be the two sides of the Pitt football coin.  If I have misinterpreted the intentions of either author, I apologize.  The interpretations are mine, but they show my dual psyche.  I both celebrate Pitt football and am wary of it.  You too?

I see these same conflicting ideas – optimistic (seeing victories worth celebrating and hoping for the future) and pessimistic (seeing celebratory victories as “lucky” aberrations and expecting the mediocrity to continue) – repeated continually throughout the comment chains on the POV, no matter what the article.

I know there are great players and highlight victories to celebrate over the past three to four decades and I realize there are some great players and victories to come.  I also seem to be conditioned by our decades of mediocrity at best to expect the worst.  This out of my frustration and disappointment from hoping for the best.  You too?

Perhaps you too have a dual psyche.  Are we not all in the same boat – optimist and pessimist?  Don’t the pessimists, deep down, hope the optimists are right?  Don’t the optimists, deep down, fear the pessimists are right?  That’s my dual psyche. Yours too?

I believe this dual psyche is called cognitive dissonance.  Cognitive dissonance, as I understand it, states that one can’t hold two contradictory ideas at the same time, for long.  One of the ideas has to change or somehow they must be reconciled.  I can’t both celebrate Pitt football and be wary of it.  I don’t see the reconciliation.  Something must change.

I hope it’s the Pitt football program changing for the best.  But I fear ….  and if I no longer have hope for the future, can I remain a fan?  Yoi and double yoi.  I’m a tortured soul.

You too?


353 thoughts on “Tortured Souls and the Pitt POV

  1. Two thoughts:

    1) many of us here cherish the Pitt FB of 1975-82 and yearn for it to reoccur. However, we also should remember 1967-71 and 1992-96, and realize that Pitt’s history is above average, at best … in both FB and BB.

    2) this leads us to expectations. It is much easier to upgrade the quality of a BB program than FB. Maybe not with the current staff, but IMO we can expect a return to Pitt BB of 2002-11 before we ever come close to see the Pitt of the late 70s. The more realistic aspiration for Pitt FB is 2008-10.

    I believe that it’s these expectations is what drives this dual-psyche. The chronic complainers who pick apart everything here accept nothing less for the Pitt FB of the late 70s and BB of the 2000s. And they seem to think it should happen overnight. They also seem to think that Pitt can spend much more money and can build an OCS in the near future.

    I’m biased but I think the others here are more realistic. They realize the restrictions of being an urban campus in an NFL city, having a smaller alum base of which many relocate, playing in an area that has a small base of quality FB and BB recruits (compared to many other areas), and the grave mistakes of the athletic dept leadership of the recent past. They expect the programs to steadily improve with an occasional hiccup, and hope for long-term stability … coaching and leadership.


  2. Those years, 1967-71 and 1990-96 were a result of football not being given a chance. As long as there isn’t an incompetent leader who pulls the plug then football at Pitt can have teams capable of winning nine games.


  3. Great article again by a POVer.

    I share the same feelings so eloquently expressed. I witnessed Pitt FB greatness, it’s darkest years and a lot of average years. Younger POVerts never experienced that period of excellence when the stars aligned. Those highs will always have of yearning for more. It’s human nature to hold the good memories near and dear and that creates the conflict- what we were, what we could be if only the stars would re- align.


  4. Pitt can still be in the better half of the OK teams. 8 win average with occasional better years.

    PN has to get back to 8 wins this year, no excuses.


    1. With that non-con schedule, that is going to be very tough. Add in all the noobs on the O-line and the lack of a break-a-way..scat back who can make ppl miss. Pitt’s D is going to have to be much much better, as they played the last 2 games of the season.


  5. I wasn’t trying to be optimistic or pessimistic. Just trying to point out that you need real stars to have a great football team. We have been lucky to have a lot during our hey day and a few superstars over the next thirty years. I guess I am pessimistic about current recruiting bringing in enough stars. (Real ones)

    I do agree that Pitt Football makes us schizophrenic.

    From the last blog it does seem like the dark side takes over around here quite often, and I understand that.
    I tend to run and cold, but if I couldn’t see the bright side every once in a while, I would find another hobby.

    But these are the darkest of times for Pitt Basketball and we just had a 5-7 football season so I understand the lament. We seem to have lost the Dark Knight, if we lose Dr Tom and Ike, this will not be a fun place.


  6. Also off topic but relevant to the perception of Pitt basketball was this report of Duquesne’s recent A10 victory over George Mason “Record-setting night by freshmen leads Dukes to 2OT win against Patriots”. Also this “The Dukes held the Patriots to .227 from 3, entering the night ranked fourth in Division I in 3-point defense at .285.” Note, GM is not a good 3P shooting team but the defensive ranking is still impressive.

    On KDKA this morning the anchors discussed a sports feature on Duquesne hoops.

    Duquesne is currently in third place in the A10. RMU is currently in second place in the Northeast.

    Coverage of Pitt basketball now focuses on the winless conference record, double digit drubbings and lack of answers from the coach and team.


    1. no doubt Duquesne made a better coaching hire than Pitt. ButI I actually turned off Pitt to watch some of the Duquesne game, and immediately noticed a large difference between the outside shooting of Duke and George Mason (who missed a lot of open shots)


      1. Yes, like I said George Mason did not enter the game as a good 3P shooting team at ~32%.

        It appears KS may be on the verge of losing local media fanboy Zeise:

        The Duquesne Women’s program has owned Pitt the last four seasons and Burt is widening the gap between the programs. I watched it firsthand 2 seasons ago. The women’s program was also part of the KDKA report that I mentioned seeing this morning. Barnes extended SMS for 5 years after her second season and her lone NCAA Tourney appearance as a coach. She’s won 9 conference games since. Barnes is a giver! Zeise also thought this was good stuff. Zeise should probably return to beat writing.


  7. Thanks Hobie for doing an article. I would like to see articles from wbb, who is like a sports encyclopedia, not one about Tino please, I kid, maybe one called realistic expectations (for Pitt sports), one from Emel, not about Voytik please, and one from UPitt maybe a fantasy about, if he were AD.

    I would also like to hear from someone about what it was like to be a student during the Jackie Sherrill years.


  8. Thanks gc but not sure I have anything more to express than what I have already written. But will consider it.


  9. OK, here is some more fodder for the multitude of POV cynics (as for me, I wonder why one hasn’t been established by now)

    Craig Meyer@CraigMeyerPG
    Pitt has announced the creation of an athletics hall of fame at the school. Heather Lyke had said last year she had hoped to create one.

    Nominations can be submitted online and are being accepted through March 31. The inaugural class will be inducted Sept. 7.


  10. Here is the link for HOF nominees

    Candidates nominated for their achievements as student-athletes must be five years removed from their final year of collegiate competition and not currently be playing professional sports.

    Here is a list of the members of the Pitt Hall of Fame Selection Committee:

    Athletic administration

    Heather Lyke, Director of Athletics; Christian Spears, Deputy Athletic Director/External Affairs; Kelly Brennan, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives and Engagement; E.J. Borghetti, Athletic Media Relations; Matt Plizga, Athletic Media Relations; Alonzo Webb, Men’s and Women’s Track and Field Head Coach

    Distinguished community members

    Former U.S. House of Representatives member Melissa Hart; long-time play-by-by announcer Bill Hillgrove; lawyer, Board of Trustees member and former Pitt News sport editor Martha Munsch and historian and author Sam Sciullo Jr.

    Board of Trustees Robert Lovett; Munsch; Dr. Jack Smith

    Panther Club member Timothy Pecsenye

    Era representatives Alex Kramer (Pre-1960s); Donna Sanft (1961-1975); Joey David (1976-1990); Lousaka Polite (1991-2005); and Elizabeth Kline (2006-Present).

    The above from a Trib article


  11. FWIW, I just nominated Hugh Green and Joe Schmidt. (Note – Schmidt, who is both a college and NFL hall-of-famer, is 86 years old and would like to see him honored before it’s too late)


    1. I can’t believe Joe Schmidt hasn’t been in the Pitt HOF for several decades. Someone up high, must not like Joe.


  12. Since I started my abusive love affair with Pitt Football in 1959, the one common denominator in SOP has been the Board of Trustees. We evidently have now, and had in the past, members who do not have Pitt’s Sports interest at heart. I would like to see it purged of any PSU Grads asap! And then every remaining member asked about their feelings about Pitt sports. Those that are against success in our “front porch”
    should be removed.

    Toward that end Reed…. Could you publish the BOT names, about 10 at a time, along with their history of votes as members and their University of graduation! Bios please.

    We as alums keep dancing around the problem… the BOT. Let’s meet it head on an take away the anomous nature and their ability to hide behind it!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. You will not find this information. You had to dig hard about 12 months ago. Pitt has erased history. They are on to us.


  13. The cognitive dissonance is most likely in every one of us, and in every fan base, except say Alabama. So what does one do?..nothing really. I just go to the games, take it all in, enjoy Fran’s tailgate, enjoy the tradition, enjoy any sun we get, enjoy the beer, the band, etc.


      1. That stuff really gives me a headache at Pitt games. It’s almost they like try to give the worst experience as possible, so you don’t return.


        1. Possibly a BoT plot to kill Pitt football. Before you laugh, consider all the things they have done in the past to try and kill Pitt football since 1938.


  14. Let’s move this analysis away from Pitt sports for just a minute. In business and in life, you strive to do your best at work. Name me a company that has a BoT that doesn’t want to get better at everything each year. When a company has record sales, the BoT wants to break that record next year. Why? They tasted the success and know what it tastes like and wants more….and of course, money! The fans (us), are the BoT, but without voting shares. Our voices can only be heard via blogs, emails, telephone calls and the decision to purchase or not purchase tickets to support the brand. Obviously, not heard. Look at the Pete.

    When I own stock in a company, I purchase their products even if the price for the consumer good is a little more expensive. However, if those same companies make poor decisions, are mismanaged and produce
    poor products, I won’t invest in it. I will go someplace else. It doesn’t mean I won’t try to influence greatness in other ways, I just won’t buy their stock or invest in them. That is why you hear people saying that Pitt is a sleeping giant. Everybody knows it except for the people making the decisions. Every week that goes by without pushing towards excellence is a lost week and Pitt risks losing support every week. People want to be associated with a winner and not mediocrity, let alone a loser.

    People also want to be connected to their university. OCS accomplishes just that. I often wonder how many of the commenters on here graduated from Pitt in the last 15 years and compare that to those that graduated in the late 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. The reason we are old fuddy duddies is because we tied ourselves to Pitt Stadium and an era of winning in both football and basketball. Pitt is risking losing a generation of football fans (if it hasn’t already), due to leadership incompetence. Please don’t blame the weather, the athletes, the coaches, the nfl city. Blame the Pitt Administration, particularly the BoT and AD.

    There is no better saying that describes Pitt than “You snooze, you lose”. Pitt Administration and BoT fell asleep 35 years ago and haven’t woken up.


    1. Concur Huff. I believe Pitt has attendance problems because of losing several generations of fans.
      Even though we have a few alum on here from the 1960’s, I would venture to say Pitt lost a whole lot more of ppl who attended from 1965 to 1972, when they let Pitt football slide to the very bottom of the NCAAF heap. Dave Hart who was HC for 3 of those years, had one team that avg’d 7 ppg in 1967 and followed that up in 1968 with one that avg’d 9 ppg. In total point numbers, in 1967 Pitt scored a TOTAL OF 73 POINTS FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON. The next season it was a whopping 99 points Total.

      Currently we have the Dave Hart of basketball coaching the Pitt bball team.

      If losing that generation of fans, donors, etc….wasn’t bad enough, it was followed up with the generation from 1990 to 1997, when Pitt fielded some teams almost as bad as the 1960’s (sans 1963).

      If you go to a Pitt game, you will note, the alumni base is rather on the far end side of 60 and up.
      There aren’t a gazillion of them, since 1965 to 1972 was a total wipeout. But they and the next in age group, who went from 1974 to 1983, which includes me, represent the vast majority of people who
      attend Pitt games.

      Pitt knows the demographics better than we do, of who donates and who doesn’t. And currently Pitt
      sits last in the ACC in donations.

      Perhaps this is why, them knowing the demographics of the donors, why there is no committment
      from them regarding the football and now the bball programs. When the above 2 groups mentioned
      are no longer viable, is there going to be any interest, other than nominal and the students(they won’t go if the team stinks), in Pitt football.


  15. Charles Smith will be honored to come back to celebrate in front of 1200 fans and another 800 students that will need to google him. He will really want to open his wallet in Pitt’s direction when he sees such support, not!

    You create a hall of fame when people are interested in your program and want to see it prosper. You don’t do it when you are struggling to change a culture. Change the culture first and drive demand to be a part of something special. She is doing this all backwards. Stop looking at high profile institutions and implementing what they do. Puff out your chest and demand excellence in all sports so that our hall of famers want to come back and be a part of it, instead of alienating them with a 2000 fan attendance turnout number that is embarrassing.

    “Please direct your attention to half court where Charles Smith receives his hall of fame ribbon, fanta and a scoobie snack for fido, given to him by one of our 39 season ticket holders”. Pipe in applause, stat!

    This has been a bad week to stop sniffin glue!


    1. Maybe we should move all future games this year back to Fitzgerald. It will look more crowded and Charles will feel more at home.


  16. Our whole focus here is for Pitt FB and MBB to be better. That unfortunately is likely low on the list of the BoT. And they will argue that we are wrong.

    Of course, that doesn’t mean that POVers should not continue to try.


  17. Does anyone know if there is an athletic committee within the BOT and the composition of that committee?


  18. Huff,, agree BoT is “asleep at the Wheel.” We are all taught to be our best in all of our undertakings, at least that”s what my parents, coaches and teachers told me. I don’t get it- de-emphasizing a sport because it over-shadowed academics…total BS. No money will come from donors until the BoT makes a commitment and a plan to strive for excellence. I am not saying 5 million buck coaches, thugs on the field of play. All elements of the university should push to be the best, after all, Pitt is in the business of of making money and sports is part of what you sell. Currently, Pitt is doing a piss poor job of selling this product..

    Pitt PT school is ranked number 1 in the nation- I am a PT and could give a rat’s A$$ where we are ranked as a PT school. HoF, maybe later. The timing is so bad. Heather, you have big problems to deal with. The HoF is a nice idea but it can wait until the fire is put out at the Pete.


  19. I also have another question. When a OCS is mentioned I always hear that one reason it will never happen is that the Oakland business community is against it. What business community might that be? UPMC which controls much of the area? The hotels and restaurants which would be filled on football weekends?The parking concessions which would add a few days filling their lots?The museums which would see additional walkthrough traffic?
    I guess I just wonder about some things which are said and I guess I’m missing something. Now, if you mean the slum landlords who might lose their revenue from extorting rents from students, well, that must be it. Or is it all those developers which have flocked to the Oakland area? Perhaps it’s the citizens of the city who do not need the additional tax revenue?
    Nope, it’s the politicians who want to develop the ?North side. Not content with the Sunday traffic, they want the Saturday flow as well. God forbid they actually do something to make downtown vibrant on its own.
    Let’s review, business leaders against? Civic leaders against? Oh wait, residents against. That’s the real funny one. Year round, permanent Oakland residents. That may be the funniest one of all.


    1. there are no year round residents left. All temp renters. All slum lords.

      Business would love it. Keeps the money in Oakland.

      Pitt’s BoT is a secret society. No bios published. No transparency on the nomination or election process.

      Its comprised of Nitters and academic intelligentsia. And politicians.

      It exists to preserve the status quo. Its elitist. It operates in a vacuum when it comes to sports.

      Again, split into 2 boards each comprising of 9 members. 1 board is focused on academics and elects the Chancellor. 1 board is focused on athletics and elects the AD.

      Any alumnus has voting rights for nomination.

      Election criteria – no political hacks, no Nitters



      1. We, as the abused and angry alumni, need to take away the BOT secrecy. Strip them of that veil and all of a sudden we have actual names to blame. I am very close with one of the UPMC heads whose ass Pitt kisses on a regular basis. I AM ON THIS!


    2. lol…right the Oakland businesses are against having substantially more people who might wander into their business and buy whatever they sell on a Pitt football day.

      Maybe they’re teaching that theory at Katz these upside down days 🙂


    3. It isn’t the Oakland business community…it is the neighbors to the east and the city itself.

      Really no one wants an OCS but a few hundred fans…maybe a thousand or two.


      1. Alright, you must be kidding. Every alumni who doesn’t live in the area wants to come back for a game that is in Oakland…on campus.


  20. You know back when I went to Pitt, young ppl from the suburbs who didn’t even go to Pitt, use to come into Oakland to party at the bars and such. Oakland was a destination place.

    Since those days of the late 1970’s, early 80’s, every other section of Pittsburgh has been built up to attract those suburban kids on Friday and Saturday nite. First you had the SouthSide (East Carson) built up, then you had the North Shore to capture suburbanites from the North Hills and all points North. You had the Waterfront built in Homestead to capture those young ppl on that side of Allegheny county.

    Then they did SouthSide 2 so to speak, as a new area around the Hot Metal bridge was constructed, further
    taking business away from Oakland. And in fact if you visit Oakland now, there are very few restaurants
    and bars at all anymore. Even the East End is now being revitalized along Penn Ave.

    To me it seems like Oakland has been very neglected and it is not a destination place at all, for Pittsburghers and suburbanites to visit, eat or be entertained.

    Oakland is not on anyone’s radar anymore. There is nothing going on there anymore.


    1. You could add Lawrenceville along Butler Street…

      One of my sons bought a house over there and loves it…


    2. No Decade, Zelda’s, CJ Barney’s or The Sanctuary. A-hem, Anthony’s…..for the 25 cent pizza of course. Was a lot more fun in Oakland back in those days.


  21. And I wonder how this all plays into, Pitt being treated like the red-headed Stepchild in Pittsburgh.

    Unless you go to Pitt, there is nothing there on an entertainment/restaurant/nightclub basis, that would bond people with Oakland and Pitt.


  22. There is little that bonds/connects students or alumni to the university. A rec center/multi purpose venue could do that.


  23. Emel, even the Pitt students do not stay in Oakland on the weekends. They are in the Southside or East Liberty/ Shadyside/Lawrenceville. Oakland is dead. You used to have strong politicians from that area, no more. Oakland is like a no fly zone, but really, it’s a no fun zone.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Emel. You are right about Pitt being a destination place for kids from the suburbs. I grew up in Oakmont. We would always go to Oakland to party. It was the place to go in the 80s.


  25. “Sleeping Giant”?

    Sorry but you have to explain that better.

    We know there are limitations in the Pitt football program and we know that there’s limitations because of the type of City Pittsburgh is with the four other it sports whose fans are in WPA.

    And we also know that the Pitt admin is much more academically leaning then it is athletically leaning. But I don’t see any of those things changing anytime soon so you have to explain to me what in the world will have to change for us to become an awakened “sleeping giant “…and it isn’t an on-campus Stadium because that would drain money from both the University and the athletic dept., and we not sure there’ll be more people in attended there than there is in Heinz.

    These comparisons to what Temple is doing is ludicrous because 1) Temple already owns the existing land and 2) that land is 3/4 already playing fields and an old athletic building.

    Dropped Pin
    near Cecil B. Moore, Philadelphia, PA 19121

    Third the ACC would never allow us to build that small a stadium any play in anyway.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Doesnt Pitt own the land for Trees, Fitzgerald, the Cost Center and that wasteful parking lot?

      I also dont see how money will be drained when you can float a low cost bond and fundraise. And of course avoid paying Heinz rent, get 100% of parking, merchandise, concessions, and own 100% of the rights to advertisement, naming rights, suites and boxes.

      And nobody should be saying it will help improve attendance like Steve said. However, It will help better connect students and alumni back to campus. Every feasibility study published has said this. So there has to be some truth. Its one way to help solve Pitt’s donation issue if done properly.

      I guess it will be fun to travel out to Washington County in Year 2033 to watch Pitt play in the Steelers new domed stadium.

      A sleeping Giant (and I dont know who said this other than Nard Dog once) can be awakened by a cultural transformation and support. Thats what our AD should be focusing on. But she wont because her tenure is about 3-4 years until she leaves; moreover, she doesnt want to rock the BoT boat.

      So congrats Temple as Pitt is now one of 2 schools left that play off campus. If Pitt doesnt watch, they could be replacing us in the ACC.

      PS: I also would not build just a football only stadium. Needs to be 365/24/7 used. Needs to justify the ROI. Revenue streams must come from multiple points. I hate the name OCS and a single purpose idea.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Reed,
      Wake Forest’s stadium is 31,000+ and Duke’s football stadium is 40,000. Something in the ’40s would be acceptable and if there’s a large demand for a game, move the game to Heinz Field.


  26. In approximately one month, the MBB season comes to an end for Pitt. Last game is 2/28.

    Do the ACC bottom dwellers go to the ACC conference tournament? If they do, then our season will be a few days longer…

    If I were AD, then Coach Stalling’s employment would end on 2/29.

    One month (and a couple of days) to go to find out.


  27. Geez Oakland is becoming just what it has been envisioned for decades…an urban campus consisting of almost all Pitt entities.

    Look, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, redone East Liberty and other “destination” neighborhoods are such a short distance Oakland doesn’t need as many bars and eateries it once had.

    The Pitt student today doesn’t live on campus but also is different from the commuter students of old.

    The great thing about Pittsburgh is that it does have many neighborhoods that appeal to the 20 to 30 yoa crowds… They aren’t limited to Oakland to live and thrive like they were before.


    1. Don’t know if you’ve been thru Squirrel Hill the last few years, but that is another neighborhood that is a shell of it’s former self. The Waterfront killed much of the better businesses/restaurants on Murray and Forbes. Yea they still have both of each, but it’s not upscale at all.


      1. And by not having Oakland as a place, a destination, ppl other than students want to go to, it’s totally disconnected Oakland from the rest of Pittsburgh. Which therefore makes them less likely to associate themselves with either Pitt or it’s sports teams, mainly football and basketball.


  28. All 15 ACC BB teams will play in the ACC tournament in Brooklyn. In first round we will play the highest seed team on Tuesday, probably team seeded 10th. Lucky for team 10? We would need to win 5 straight games in a row to get an automatic NCAA bid. Take Duke to win it..


  29. Yup, it was never about the Oakland residents. At meetings they just used to trot out someone from the neighborhood and use them for their stooge. It was always the rich from Squirrel Hill or Shadyside that didn’t want their streets crowded with riff raff 6 Times a year. Never were good neighbors, just interested in themselves. And the city always wanted to figure out a way to get people back to downtown. They just never could figure it out. Rooney’s much more concerned about North Shore development.


    1. I don’t really think that is the case. I grew up in Shadyside. A bus would leave Amberson ave and head to Pitt Stadium.


  30. Ya know, Pittsburgh always did have a problem marketing itself. Changed over two old movie theaters, closed a bunch of head shops and skin flick joints and called it the ?Cultural ?District. Wasn’t that what Oakland was years ago?? You know, world class museums, Phipps, Schenley Park, two great universities? Major league parks, and (at least in 1960) the 10th largest stadium in the country. Guess this is progress. Seems we have world class hospitals, which feud among each other so you may or may not be served by them. Bad streets, no mass transit that really works, and a campus that is brick and mortar. No soul. Great job, great vision.
    The old money is fading away. Worried the future donations will look like the athletic department donations. Sigh, ramblings of an old guy.


  31. Oakland will re-invent itself when the City kicks out the slumlords and the University makes an investment in the community.

    Oakland businesses would love attention. Oakland residents are primarily transients, renters. Nothing wrong with that but create an environment that caters to them.

    And that brings in outsiders….


  32. I’ve been thinking for a while now that perhaps when Reed started the POV, his real secret, deep-down motivation was to provide a forum for Pitt sports fans to scorch the BoT. If so, it has worked pretty well. (I remember it being stated on here that people in Pitt’s administration read this blog.)

    Now what does Reed have in mind for the next step? Is it some kind of petition, or perhaps a grand POV/Pitt fan march from Heinz to the Cathedral? Where the POV, with UPitt as our spokesman, confronts the BOT…

    Actually, I’m in the Richman group – I live on a new dose of “Pitt Hope” each season. I enjoy the wins and agonize over the defeats.

    But if there is a march, I’ll be there supporting Reed and the

    Go Pitt.


    1. I’ve personally asked Pitt myself about this secretive society known as the BoT. Cricketts.
      There is no disclosure, no transparency. They want to keep it that way.
      Recently Bios were even erased from sites regarding the members. You now have to dig real hard to find those 4 Nitters…the 4 I know of.
      You will find the names of the 36.
      You will not know how they are nominated nor the criteria for selection
      Meetings are closed to the public
      It will take a lawsuit to disclose the shenanigans and bring accountability
      But let it sink in…36 people you dont know anything about, had no control in voting for (I’m talking to you alumni), are making decisions that impact YOU!


  33. I worked a couple years in Oakland and my office overlooked Fifth Ave across from Montiefore. I was stunned of the constant flow of traffic throughout the workday, Not just rush hour but consistently thru the day. Now Children’s was on DeSoto then but still, I have to believe due to Presby, Montiefore, Falk, Magee and Carlowe and Pitt … there are plenty of customers for Oakland businesses throughout the week … and of course, hospitals are a 7 days a week entity.

    Long story short …. the businesses are not dependent on an event that occurs 6 or 7 times a year


    1. 6-7 football events plus multiple other non-football events. Anytime you get over 300k more people into Oakland annually, its always a good thing for merchants and small business. State College survives solely on football games.

      And in response to MajorMajors, if bloggers and commentators begin asking questions, answers are the next to follow. If there are no answers, you see movements start. Thats what happens when you hold leaders accountable.

      I for one cannot fathom how a modern day university as diverse and sophisticated as Pitt’s can be run by 36 board members whom we:
      – do not understand the nomination process
      – do not understand the selection criteria (for either the nominating committee or the BoT)
      – do not understand the bios of the BoT members (Nitters, political hacks, unqualified nepots)

      All because there is no transparency.

      Why cant the Pitt News provide us with these answers. I know students read this blog and theres probably an editor or two. Arent you curious about how your university is governed? About how decisions are made that impact you? Its your Front Porch to.


  34. Temple University@TempleUniv
    Dear @Eagles,

    We’re so proud to be one of your official sponsors. Congrats on the NFC Championship, we can’t wait to see you soar in #SuperBowlLII.

    Love, Temple


  35. It is amazing that pitt as a public university can be so secretive. Emel for bot.
    As to Temple OCS remember pa tilts to the east. Philly gets what they want financially.


  36. To bad we could not have an all PA Super bowl. Fleagles owe NE one for the last how shall we say stolen sign gate Super bowl game.


  37. I think comparing Pitt and Temple is a very fair comparison. Both are inner city state related universities, being the 2nd & 3rd largest universities in Pennsylvania’s 2 largest cities.

    Pitt owns plenty of land where a new Pitt Stadium could be built and could include other features, making it a year round usage building, with a little creativity any good architecture firm could design.

    We’ve all seen the plan designs for a new Pitt Stadium at the Top of the Campus, where old Trees Hall, older Fitzergerald and the new Cost Center are now. Which even incorporate the Cost Center into the new stadium.

    So the argument that Pitt doesn’t have the land is a bogus one.

    What Pitt doesn’t have is. the leadership in place to recognize like Temple’s leadership does, that
    playing on campus and having your own stadium is the way to go. And the damage done
    to a football program playing in front of many empty seats in a too large a venue is putting
    your football program behind the 8 ball.

    Georgia Tech (another urban campus school) leadership recognized this too, and instead of relocating
    to 71,000 seat Georgia Dome, a few blocks from campus they spent a lot of money ($75 million) to refurbish their ancient (1913) football stadium. For they to knew that a 50,000 crowd in a 71,000 seat Georgia Dome would make Georgia Tech appear to have a 2nd rate program

    Apparently the Pitt BoT doesn’t even care if Pitt looks 2nd rate for they never even bothered to look into making Ketchup Bottle appear smaller, by tarping off sections that even NFL teams do now-a-days.

    The fact they don’t even care about the bush league Pitt at midfield at Heinz is another indicator, they just don’t care.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. The skunk is up on WVU. They probably wont win but TCU is selling out all games. Meanwhile Bissel Bob Stallings is a joke. Next home game will have 800 fans. 300 getting a certificate from Cameratime Heather.


    1. Pitt has 2 upcoming home games, NC State on Weds and then Syracuse. I doubt many show for the Wolfpack. Cuse might draw a little more in only cause it’s on a Saturday.


      1. I believe that there is also a retro t-shirt giveaway on Saturday for the first 5000 fans. I wonder whether they’ll need that many shirts. It will probably depend on how many Cuse fans make the trip.


    2. I didn’t know KS had also sold vacuums.

      So TCU beat WVU? I wonder why there are no posts from Steve H and Austin Panther. They post every time TCU loses.


  39. Pitt should be ashamed of itself that the Temple University Owls, a program with a career record of 309 wins and 406 losses(43% winning percentage) with only 7 Bowl appearances EVER. 5 of which have been in the Bowl Movement era of crap bowls for all NCAAF participants that lose as many games as they win. A school that draws far
    less fans than even Pitt does. A school has never been a national, regional or even state power.

    This program can build and will build an On Campus Stadium, in a god awful ghetto part of North Philly and Pitt with almost a 4 Billion endowment and a very distinguished football program, that the University loves to boast that they’ve won 9 National Championships….can not.

    I find this totally unacceptable.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. O/U 1650 people?

      I say under.

      Although Heather may pull out all the stops.

      Bag of Utz (Any Flavor)
      Fanta (Grape or Red)
      Poncho (w/Dino Cat)
      Connor/Obama (Bobble Head)


  40. I think the BoT isn’t the culprit here alone. I have been writing for some time that the real powers that be is not just the BoT but the Chancellor’s Senior Leadership Team and the University Senate.

    …. And aside from them,the University Senate, which is this:

    What are the main concerns of the Senate?

    Recommendations from Senate bodies are made to the Chancellor or other appropriate University officers on policy matters including (but not limited to): education; tenure; academic freedom; student affairs; physical plant (including expansions); substantive and procedural budgetary matters; health and welfare of the faculty, students, and staff; athletics; admissions; nondiscrimination; creation, termination, or merger of schools or major academic divisions; creation or termination of major administrative units; the University-wide mission and plan; and other matters of University-wide concern.

    It is the responsibility of the administrative officers to consult with and seek the advice of the Senate on major changes that affect the faculty in these policy areas.

    Note the “physical plant (including expansions),”

    When we say”BoT” who we really mean are the three co-existing entities, but the actual BoT really only approves or disapproves (rubber stamps I think) the initiatives started by the Senate and Senior Leadership Teams.

    Regardless, the issue of an OCS is so low on Pitt’s priority list that it is almost a running joke.

    Why else is almost the first thing out of the new Chancellor’s and the last two AD’s mouths is a statement that an on campus isn’t on any priority list.

    “I’m certainly not looking at an on-site [stadium]. I’m sure to the dismay of some.”

    Folks, they say this in public the first chance they get! Yet fans keep bring it up religiously.

    But saying BoT is just easier and conveys just as well.


    1. they say it because they dont need one for another 15 years. But what will Pitt do when Heinz has outlived its life much like Pitt Stadium. But some sort of new rec center, multi purpose venue should be part of their 20 year plan. And it isnt which tells me that Pitt plans to go wherever the Steelers go.

      Liked by 1 person

  41. As far as ” all the Pitt fans who don’t live in the area” want to have an on-campus Stadium how many do you think would actually put any money in if they floated a bond or asked for donations for a new campus Stadium. You can guarantee that no one’s going to put their money up cuz they’re not doing it now.


  42. This is the 100th posting on this thread. I harken back to the 2nd posting above where I wrote the following:

    “I believe that it’s these expectations is what drives this dual-psyche. The chronic complainers who pick apart everything here accept nothing less for the Pitt FB of the late 70s and BB of the 2000s. And they seem to think it should happen overnight. They also seem to think that Pitt can spend much more money and can build an OCS in the near future.”

    What we yearn for is one thing … reality is quite another thing.


  43. Just from my personal discussions, the desire for an OCS is far from unanimous. I wonder if they did a survey what it would say? Maybe Emel and UPitt could start a go fund me site.


  44. It makes zero sense to build a on campus stadium when Heniz can be better utilized with some modest changes. Seating, closing one section to make 55 K look far better. Even at 45K, the stadium looks far better. Plus the lease payment is peanuts as a cost. I think it is 1 million per year. Would I like a stadium for branding and drive demand and sell seat licenses? Yes but for now lets get the program up to speed before investing millions into a 6 game facility.


  45. The two best game day experiences I had in the last ten years were the Cinci game at a packed Heinz Field and the bowl at Navy. Unfortunately they were both losses. But the Fan support was awesome. I think Heinz can become much better if the team becomes much better. Sorry but Pittsburgh Fans do not show up for losers. Pitt has broken the fans hearts so many times that they refuse to show up.

    Also, ACC fans love to come to Heinz and Pittsburgh. Don’t know the stats but my guess is that we lead in visitor attendance in the ACC.


    1. we have many tickets and hotel rooms available. Not necessarily the case for other ACC venues. But the fact that many have to travel long distances to come to Pgh while many other ACC campuses are much nearer, speaks well for Pgh and Heinz.


      1. The visiting fans that I have encountered over the years seem to be families or entourages who make long weekends around the games and visit other attractions around the city.

        I typically ride the T over to Heinz so there is lots of time for conversation with other riders.


  46. Look, the driving force behind an OCS is a sense of Pitt Pride among a faction of Pitt football fans. There is certainly nothing wrong with that. But I think what goes along with that is also a sense that the Pitt football program is all of a sudden going to become a winning program and win championships because we have an on-campus Stadium.

    That ain’t necessarily so.

    Well, we saw what happened when we had the old Pitt stadium that wasn’t true. From the time of the second World War to 2000 when Pitt Stadium was vacated it was mostly losing seasons and we saw what happened to the program in 1990s and it was horrendous.

    There is absolutely no guarantee that an OCS is going to make the Pitt football program any better than it is right now or has been since we have been playing at Heinz Field. Let’s remember that the best football we’ve seen since the 1980s has been played at Heinz Field.

    And we aren’t going to get an Administration anytime soon that I can see who will be willing to put a stadium up on top of that Hill. We’ve seen two Administrations since 2000 that didn’t want a Pitt stadium and it’s going to continue that way folks.

    It may well be that a hire of a Chancellor in the future is going to be partly contingent on not wanting or allowing a Pitt Stadium. Every senior administer I’ve talked to in the last 18 years has said the same thing…no one at Pitt wants it to happen.

    And BTW, if I’m Corky Cost and Pitt tells me we are building into or tearing down the Cost Center you donated I’d say ‘that’s the last penny you see from me…’

    See donors who give money during their lifetimes are great but what you really have to do is keep those donors happy until they die so that the huge donations to Pitt is part of their estate. That’s when you get the big money, not the hundred thousand here or there during their lifetimes.


    1. He also built the Cost Center. His donation was probably a tax writeoff and a money maker for his company.


  47. Setting expectations for next season! I’ve seen posters saying we need to get to 8 wins next season – we play 5 teams (Penn St., UCF, ND, Miami, VT) that are in the pre-season top 25. I’m sorry but 8 wins may not come next season.


    1. I predict that we will win at least one of those … but we have to play at our nemesis UNC, and look out for the game at Wake (look what they did last year at home) … and GT is never a shoo-in.


      1. I think the VT game has the most probability for a win given how competively Pitt played them at Blacksburg in 2017. It’s a home game. It’s a weekend game. It’s late in the season. It’s not after a bye.

        Mark, the annual expectation in PNY4 moving forward should be that Pitt achieves 7-8 wins. UCF is in year 1 with a coach. Fuente is in year 3. Richt is in year 3. PSU is a rivalry game at home with Franklin in year 5. It surely won’t be easy, but it should be achievable if Narduzzi is the coach that it seems most believe that he is.


  48. I realize that I see things differently being a non-Pitt alum … but for the life of me, why do so many here want an OCS? I understand why you would want a 47k capacity stadium but there is no advantage whatsoever in having it located in Oakland.

    — Pitt, which isn’t a large school in terms of enrollment in the first place, has a larger than most commuter population
    — its students make up about 25% of the total game attendance at most
    — a stadium in its present location, or several other sites, is much, much more accessible than Oakland.

    it just makes no sense


    1. Its about connecting students and alumni back to campus. It has nothing to do with generating more attendance or wins.

      The vast majority of schools recognize that playing on campus does help with donations and a students quality of life. Schools tie traditions around their campus venue the day before and day of the game. You provide a better experience, more fun, then those memories are tied to campus.

      Any competent AD will tell you this. You would prefer to play on your own turf than a rental facility associated with somebody else.

      At many schools, the football venue is the centerpiece.

      Look at feasibility studies by other schools and justifications for building on campus rec centers and sports venues. Its all about memories, connecting with campus, association…all which leads to future donations.

      Its one of the reasons why Pitt has a low donation rate. One of the reasons. You also have to build traditions around this venue because a facility alone wont do it.

      Liked by 1 person

        1. correct.

          Cornhole was a fool saying that Heinz would increase attendance, be better for recruiting and help Pitt win more games

          A stadium alone doesnt do it. Winning teams do it. Now granted a venue could be designed that gives the team a true home field advantage. Could be designed with a charm and character that would draw in the casual fan.

          But again, its for the connections. Look at every feasibility study over the past 10 years. They all mention this. Its about future donations and support. It also shows a commitment to sports lets not forget.


  49. It has been almost a generation since Pitt played football in Oakland. They even practice on the South Side.
    Seventeen classes of Pitt students have come and gone. In all that time Narduzzi has two of the signature wins at Heinz. There haven’t been many others. The problem is that Heinz has been associated with losing the big games. Hopefully Narduzzi will stop that trend. He hasn’t done bad so far.


    1. We’ve had the worst losses Pitt has EVER had at Ketchup Bottle and it striped endzone and the other one, doesn’t have anything in it. lol For many seasons at Ketchup Bottle, their wasn’t even a mid-field Pitt logo.

      Man some you are willing to accept anything. Which is also what’s wrong with Pitt’s leadership when it comes to Football and now Basketball.


  50. I’ve spoken with recent grads at game that did not have the Pitt Stadium experience and they did not seem to mind going to Heinz when they were undergrads (btw they were shaking a leg to the recorded music, must be a generational thing). Granted this is a small sample but there is a difference in thoughts on Heinz with recent grads and us oldsters. (Full disclosure, as much as I would like an OCS, I don’t mind Heinz).

    And isn’t the Cathedral of Learning the building that is the centerpiece of the campus? I spent far more time there both in class and the Tuck Shop than I did at Pitt Stadium (and I went to most games).


  51. Put it where the Southside facilities are now if it has to happen. Carve out a huge block of that big hillside between Arlington Avenue on the West and East Carson Street on the East… just build a stadium right into the side of that sucker and you have the practice facilities and the stadium right there.

    We have the Southside which already has restaurants bars and everything you need … might have to do some more digging for a roads and tunnels or whatever but you know what – it ain’t going to be in Oakland so you might as well put it somewhere…

    Expand this map below

    UPMC Rooney Sports Complex
    3200 S Water St, Pittsburgh, PA 15203
    (855) 937-7678


  52. I honestly a believe that if there is a alumni groundswell and subsequent push for a new stadium, it has a substantial better chance of happening if Oakland is not the locale


    1. That is why it will never happen, there is and will never be a big ground swell of fan support.

      There wouldn’t even have been a Heinz Field, PNC Park, or PPG Paints Arena, if those teams didn’t threaten to leave town. Pitt doesn’t have that leverage.


  53. Many fans love Heinz. Many restaurants and Bars for before and after the games, the students miss out on that which is unfortunate. But all the hotels and transportation infrastructure is so much better. An OCS could never match the Club Seats and upscale boxes available at Heinz.


  54. when you oldtimers were at Pitt, did you frequent the Pitt bars before and after the game? I would have to think that many were not old enough to do so.


    1. Wolfarths used to make a killer Bloody Mary and were very liberal on ID checks (it all was the darkest bat I’ve ever been in). Other pre game watering holes, Cozys, the Keg, Luna, Chiefs. If you were a frat guy the houses had pre game tune ups. Most places turned a blind eye to IDs (they must have known the the LCB guys were making the rounds because things would tighten up).


      1. my experience as a college student was that > 90% of my alcohol consumption took place at parties .. and I did not go to bars until I was a senior and old enough. But even then, I could not afford to go to them much.


    2. I was drinking in the bars of Oakland when I was sixteen. Everyone had fake cards and most of the time you didn’t need them. Obviously more difficult to get served over the last thirty years. Most kids turn 21 before they graduate.


    3. Pitt had several bars that would serve you when you were 18….so yes….80% of my fraternity was below age 21 and we all drank at the bars in Oakland.

      Are you kidding me.


  55. I have told this story before, but as a pledge, took a half Keg into the stadium dressed as a person. The brothers loved it. Crawled home at half time.

    My first memory of Pitt Football was going to watch Paul Martha with my Dad. My second was watching empty Whisky bottles being thrown on the track from the student section in disgust. Circa 67


    1. I was a Boy Scout usher in Sect 23 where later I would have season tickets. After WVU and Notre Dame games I could open my own bar with half filled bottles of boos left behind. I have Paul Martha and a few other 63 teamers autograph. I was in awe of them


  56. I drank on Walnut Street in Shadyside then walked down Ellsworth and Bayard to the stadium.

    As above Bloody Marys but at the Encore then we came back after the game and watched the west coast 4 pm game at the Mardi Gras.


  57. My beautiful cousin Fran, a Pitt cheerleader, married Corky Cost, a star football player as a halfback on two Pitt bowl teams in the late 1950’s. He was and probably still is a big Pitt football booster. His family is in the big time construction business. He built a beautiful mansion in Wilkinsburg, on its border, to keep property tax money in Wilkinsburg, where he grew up and played high school football. I am not close to him and his family at all, but this is what I know from when I used to live in PA. I have never benefited from his generosity. The Cost Center was a very big deal when I was a student at Pitt, I don’t know about now, but I graduated from Pitt over 50 years ago, and time marches on.

    Reed, your insights on what went on in the past at Pitt and are still going on, are great. Keep the rest of us clued in. Your suggestion that the South Side be the site of a possible Pitt stadium is ingenious.

    One memory that I still cannot forget from old Pitt Stadium was the sound of mostly empty liquor bottles rolling down the empty concrete bleacher “steps” that often made it all the way to the bottom. I preferred drinking in Shadyside myself. Cicero’s on Forbes in Oakland, had the best burgers. It is long gone now.


    1. Loved Cicero’s good food, reasonable prices. Would serve beer if you were eating without carding you.

      First week at school my team mates took me to QuinQues pronounced chee chees, for Meatballs and Cheese in a bowl with great bread. Chee chee never carded anyone. He moved when they tore down Forbes Field.

      The best burgers I had was at Henry VIII. Closed after freshman year.


  58. Does Pitt ever get to practice at Heinz ??? Wonder if Heinz has a home field feel to it for the players if they only see it 6 times a year.


  59. I love when you guys start on field trips around Oakland in the late 60’s and 70’s. Did nearly all of my under-age drinking at the frat house and occasionally downed a beer or 2 with a fried salami sandwich with Norm at Chief’s. Luckily, I was able to get a job as a bus-boy at the University Club. Got a free lunch or dinner, shared tips and carried mixed drinks when I turned 21- fingered one or 2 on the way to the dining room and learned early I would never develop a taste for Scotch.

    Like the ideal of a Pitt Stadium on the Southside.


  60. Academics and sports are intertwined. They help or hinder each other. Pitt does not seem to think that way based on their perception of sports as simply an ACC check. What would Pitt do if that check became in doubt based on Pitts poor sports performance or if the ACC began to give the money based on sports performance.


  61. Larry V..

    “I’ve spoken with recent grads at game that did not have the Pitt Stadium experience and they did not seem to mind going to Heinz when they were undergrads”..

    Well, my experience is that’s true for those recent grads who actually go to games now but it is also my experience (as a 17-year season ticket holder) that there are FAR more older alumni at games than recent alumni. Now, are there many factors in that discrepancy (disposable income, geography, obligations of having a younger family, etc.)? Certainly. But I also believe Pitt football is viewed with far more “romance” by those of us who attended during the days of Pitt Stadium. And keep this in mind.. I was a student from 1991-1995, the worst era of Pitt football in the last 45 years.

    And my son and his friends, all Pitt freshmen, find it “annoying” to have to ride buses to and from the games. They still go, but EVERY one of them said they wish they could walk to the games.


    1. Agree that a short walk would be the best scenario, like I said this was very small sample. Was just curious to see what the recent grads thought.


  62. Frankie Gustine’s bar and the University Club with my dad. I’d meet my dad after work at the University Club for dinner before the Pirates game at Forbes Field then after he had a few at the game…drinks at Gustine’s.

    Gustine’s was like a NYC sports bar back then.


    1. Gustine’s was awesome. Do you remember the Cum Laude, I believe next door to Gustine’s.

      Never got to drink there but it looked pretty cool.


    2. In the 50’s and 60’s the Pirates would go to Gustine’s after games and drink with the fans. Unheard of today.


  63. The problem with a South Stadium is that students would still not be able to walk to games.

    I see no benefit to a Pitt only stadium if it is not on campus. Just adds to costs.

    Pitt missed the boat when they did not acquire part of the J&L site.

    Could have had a second campus like WVU. Room for a stadium and other buildings.

    Could have built a people mover just like WVU. Property would have been real cheap, compared to Oakland.

    Could have built all sports facilities including a track.

    City fathers would have resisted, want to keep it on the tax roles, but it could have been done.


    1. the two big benefits are that it would be a 45 to 48k seating capacity and it would be much easier to access than Oakland.

      I do agree that the J&L site may have been a key acquisition .. and probably cheap also


  64. Need to look at the totality of the student experience fellas. I get that recent graduates may have indicated that they went to the Steelers stadium for some games. The missing follow-up question was “do you give back to Pitt”? The answer will be most likely, NO. Or, minimally. The reason is that there is not a tie-in to the university. TX has followed through with my thoughts on this for years and gets it.

    Pitt should study the demographics of its incoming students. As I previously explained, the north and northeast will see a sharp decline in students in their high schools in 3-4 years. Students need to come from other regions. That is why the big10 hit up the east coast with their last expansion. It was not all about tv sets. That is what the talking heads told the media and the media and people believed it. Stupid! It was a smoke screen. It was about access to the population base that will help recruit athletes and students.

    Pitt is not capitalizing on this. Pitt, as part of the ACC, competes in a conference where regional population is growing at a phenominal rate. One of the reasons we will not capitalize and miss this window is because our athletic teams are terrible. Kids don’t want to be associated with losing athletic programs. They just don’t. Having a plan for success involves the entirety of the organization, not just a piece. Your organization is only as good as its weakest link. Ever hear that once or a gazzillion times? Our weakest link is athletics and Pitt is trying to play in a space where Sr. Leaders, AD, Chancellor and BoT are incompetent and don’t know how to fix it and are afraid to ask. Mainly because of the high salaries they command. Instead they interview consulting firms that are paid by the university to regurgitate what the sr. leadership plan is. Double Stupid! Hire those that can execute. The problem is the people doing the hiring aren’t smart enough to say they are in over their heads. Paranoid folks!

    Spew whatever you want as an excuse. They are lies and everybody that believes the lies and shakes their head in backing up this messed up messaging, deserves what they get. And we have. It’s called 35 years of crap, served up differently.


  65. So is it just Pitt and Miami left as the only P5 institutions that don’t have an OCS? Are we the smart ones or the dumb ones? I’ll take dumb for $200. If we were smart, we would have better athletic teams for the last 35 years.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. no. we are urban. I’m not familiar with GT’s campus but have been to Chestnut Hill … which is not urban but in a western suburb of Boston.


            1. both are within easy walking distance. Their students dont have to take a bus. A Penn State student on far edge of campus has to walk much further than these 2 schools.


  66. Based on all of the above, there appear to be two truths with regard to an OCS: (1) Tearing down Pitt Stadium was an act of incompetence rooted in a lack of understanding of how that act would affect the perception of the football program and by extension the University; and (2) There will never again be an OCS at Pitt and that fact was fully known by the geniuses that made the decision to tear down Pitt Stadium.


  67. “An Important Update from Athletics

    Thank you for your understanding as we work through implications of the new tax law and the provisions affecting gifts associated with priority seating at collegiate athletic venues. Effective January 1, 2018, these gifts are no longer tax deductible. Panther Club priority seating and parking requirements will apply for the 2018-19 athletics season.

    Specific pricing and membership levels for that season are being finalized now and will be announced soon. We will continue to evaluate our priority seating and parking models for future seasons, and we will keep you informed as we move forward.

    This is not intended to be legal or tax advice. We encourage you to consult with a professional tax advisor.

    If you have questions about the Panther Club and/or priority seating and parking for Pitt Football, Men’s Basketball, or Women’s Basketball, please contact the Panther Club Office by phone at: 412-648-8889 or by e-mail at:”


  68. Look, donations to Pitt itself is not the problem and a very good percentage of alumni do just that. Which is why Pitt has an outstanding endowment of $3.5B which is in the top 25 of ALL colleges in the US.

    So let’s not think alumni aren’t generous, because they are. Just not to the Althetic Department.

    I have always felt Club seat required donations is akin to extortion anyway. Make them a flat rate and let people buy them or not.

    Honestly, Pitt is on my annual donation list but as above, not for athletics. I believe the purpose of a university lies in a lot of other places rather than playing sports. And I’d rather my money goes to educate a needy student via scholarship rather than paying for some athlete, who has other choices for attending other schools on scholarship, to attend Pitt.

    That said every alumni (and non-alumni) can do what they want but we have seen that at Pitt athletic donations don’t fluctuate all that much depending on won-loss records. Either they do contrinbute or don’t. But the bottom line is they would rather contribute to the general fund rather than athletics.


  69. Let me point out a major problem.

    Most of the fans on here who care and are passionate are talking about bars they went to as students.

    I graduates in 2000 and only heard of chiefs and luna.

    My point.

    The real fans and guys who probably care and give are old and getting older.

    There are very few young fans who care and give money because they never felt what many of you felt.

    Pitt Alumni from 2000 and on simply have no attachment to Pitt and no attachment to donating money.

    This should scare Pitt a ton.

    But they do nothing about it.

    The only on sport revenue team is hoops and is scares away fans and fans hate the coach.

    And Heather is spending time on a HOF Thing. Moronic.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. As a 95 graduate I find it astounding that Chiefs and the Luna would still be standing in 2000 but i guess that makes sense because in 1995 those were not well attended by students, mostly shady regulars and frat guys from North Dithridge street (like me) and not really funnels for the Tower kids to begin with. Good times. I am not sure it is fair to say that kids graduating in the last 15 years have no connection, you, like me live nowhere near Pittsburgh anymore and I don’t know any recent alumni. I do know that when I was there I did not care about sports, it only happened after. I think caring and pride in your alma mater is something that does not come until you are 5-10 years removed and start to look back at the times you had. I loved it there and am proud to have attended, but none of my fond memories have anything to do with sports. (other than I guess John Ryan being my orientation roommate)


  70. Guys , Pitt’s national and international reputations have nothing to do with sports. If anything that’s a very minor part of what people think when they think of the University of Pittsburgh. It is known for its academic and it’s research abilities that’s it.

    We football fans like to think that a football team makes all the difference but it doesn’t not to the University of Pittsburgh. Pitt went through it’s strongest periods of growth, physically, financially and in enrollment when the football team basically sucked in the lowly Big East.


    1. Pitts reputation has everything to do with sports.

      Why do kids choose a school. Partially based on sports, experience and fun. There are facts that say applications rise when sports does well. Facts that say sports help connect alumni back to campus. That helps with donations.

      Gallagher admits this with front porch talk. Feasibility studies admit this for rationale for on campus venues like rec centers and homes for sports teams. Traditions get built around these things.

      Don’t tell me an Aggie goes to A&M to get a good degree. They go to be the 12th man.

      Sports isn’t a culture or religion at Pitt. Why do the Nitters give so much. Because football is part of their fabric. It’s their identity for right or wrong.


      1. You are wrong. I have travelled and lived in 20+ places all over the world for 33 years and whenever I mentioned l went to Pitt the reply was always referring to the international studies programs, Salk, UPMC or the CoL and world famous nationality rooms…and about Pittsburgh itself.

        Football was an afterthought and talked about when we were discussing football anyway.

        Pitt is way more well known in the general populace for its academics than for athletics, that is not in doubt.

        And that “Front Porch” quote isn’t Gallagher’s or Scott Barnes’ original thinking…that phrase has been used by many colleges to try to raise more money for athletics since at least 2010.

        Football fans grossly overestimate why students choose the schools they do. Aside from maybe Notre Dame and maybe a few other schools students go to a college because it is an in-state school and they get in-state tuition, or the university is strong in their academic area, or it is a local school.

        Only some morons go to a university because it has a good football program. My lord, what would you say to someone who said they were going to Penn State (or WVU) over Pitt because their football program was better?

        You’d be correct in thinking they were idiots.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. They go for a better experience. All things equal, I’d go to Penn State. Same degree. More fun.

          Kids do think about how to get involved and what to do over the weekends. Sporting traditions get them involved. On Campus events keeps them on campus.

          Plus many kids from a young age learn the Penn State way or the Aggie way. Dont tell me it has nothing to do with sports. Dont tell me these schools dont use sports to create generations of supporters.

          I dont see any signs down here saying love my Aggie degree. Dont hear any Aggies saying how much fun they had in Chem lab and how Commerce 101 helped them bond with the university. I see 12th man stickers.

          Sports get you noticed in the States. I could care less what France thinks.


        2. I could not agree more with this Reed which is why I have mentioned that my expectations for the programs or big changes by the BoT are that nothing will change. The only real way to get much better is recruiting and unless Western PA gets an influx of young talent Pitt is going to have a hard time with that no matter who the coach is. A general student would be silly to pick their school based on football, but a 4 star recruit would be silly not too.


        3. Outside of the region, I am curious what Pitt is known for and how perceived.

          I mention I attended Pitt to people in the South and they always bring up sports…they know Marino and Dorsett. They dont know the Cathedral.

          They have no idea what Pitt programs are ‘good’ and nor do I.

          Many kids in my day picked a school because it was local, relatively inexpensive (in-state), had a good choice of programs (because what 17 year old really knows what they want to major in), and had things to do.

          With Pitt it was attending games on weekends and exploring the City instead of tipping cows. And I would have gone to Penn State had it not been for Joe Pa. I saw through his BS at an early age.

          So I can say that Pitt football made me choose Pitt over Penn State because all other things were equal.


          1. I have said before that people in LA, when Pitt comes up, always mention the big wins the past few years. The casual sport fan here thinks they are a decent program that wins some big games, which you know is what we are. They obviously don’t notice or stress the losses. Also in the past few months the what the heck happened to basketball conversation is coming up. That is about sports but overall when I say I went to Pitt most people are like that must have been cool, and I say yes.


  71. Correction: Pitt’s endowment is now $4B…in FY 2017. $4B folks… Don’t believe the crap that alumni don’t donate, they sure do both young and old.

    Donations have been steady at $54M per year and that is individual giving, not corporate or grant money.

    There are 307,000 living alumni and that works out to $185 per alumni…Which doesn’t sound like a big sum…but multiply it but 307,000 and it’s a big chunk of money.

    Here is another point. Many big donors restrict the donations to certain University missions:


    The University records at fair value unconditional pledges (which are agreements with donors involving non-reciprocal transfers of cash or other assets) as either temporarily restricted or permanently restricted contributions depending on the nature of the donor-imposed restrictions.”

    Which means many say ‘dont use this for athletics.’


    1. For all the idiots we learn about on here in Pitt’s leadership, somebody must have done something right over the years for Pitt to have amassed an endowment of $4B…

      Go Pitt!


      1. Postcard grew the University by great leaps. We bash him for athletics and I think rightly so, but Pitt rangefinder his leadership…especially as he took over very soon after it was so in debt it was forced to become state-owned and no longer a private institution.

        Amazing man in every way. I told him once that Berliner things for the men in my generation because he hit to top of three different professions… Rhoads Scholar, fighter pilot and Air Force General then a Chancellor of a major university… He replied “Keep your hands off my daughter…”


  72. BTW Texas A&M is ranked 69th so its a pretty good academic school. Plus the have the largest Cadet Corps in the country and put more Comissioned Officers in the military save the actual military academies.

    Students sure do go there for reasons other than to be the 12th man…but that is a great tradition.


  73. I want to remind some on here who seem enamored with Ketchup Bottle, with it’s vertical striped endzone and the other one has nothing in it, that Pitt has endured it’s most embarrassing LOSSES EVER…at this crap stadium on the North Side. It’s embarrassing to see the mickey mouse white chalk Pitt written at mid-field.
    And that took 10 years to get, for the first 10 years there, there was nothing a mid-field.

    It almost started immediately, the embarrassing losses from Day 1 at Ketchup Bottle.

    Actually it was GAME 2 at the Bottle in Sept 2001. Against a school who had been D1 for like a year.
    That being South Florida. Pitt lost that day and that started a string of unconscionable losses
    at his woebegone place.

    The near loss to D2 Furman in 2004, 41-38.

    The Opening Season Loss to Bowling Green State in 2008 17-27

    The Opening Season Loss to D2 Youngstown State in 2012 17-31 (wasn’t even a close game)

    The 2014 Loss to the Akron Zips. 10-21 (again not really even a close game)

    And 2 more near losses to D2 Youngstown State in both 2015 and just this past season.

    Pitt NEVER endured such humiliating losses at Pitt Stadium. Worst level program we
    ever lost to at Pitt Stadium was East Carolina.


    1. That comeback win against Furman was actually a heck of an entertaining game. I’m sure I’d feel different had we lost, but the tension and uncertainty of being behind, followed by the win, was quite entertaining to me.

      Go Pitt.


      1. How’d you feel about almost losing to D2 YSU again this year ? I’m sure it was a highly entertaining game as well since it went into OverTime.


        1. Emel – why so angry?

          I thought we were just throwing out thoughts about Pitt Football.

          But just for the record – I do not accept Pitt losing; and I demand that Pitt win. 🙂

          Go Pitt.


  74. Just like building the Pete jettisoned Pitt basketball into rare air, including being ranked #1 for the first time EVER in program history and earning not just one but two NCAA tournament #1 seeds and winning the BigEast conference title several times as well the BigEast conference tournament title, again another Pitt first time EVER accomplishment.

    On the flip side of that:
    Not building another Pitt Stadium will forever doom the football program to mediocrity and Red-Headed step child status in our city.

    Of course that’s partly what’s wrong in America, these days, people only strive to be average, and are
    satisfied with mediocrity. And that’s what you get.


  75. At Pitt Stadium

    UCLA 40-8
    Miami 58-0
    ND 38-0
    PSU 65-9
    ND 49-7
    OK 55-29
    ND 56-7

    So those weren’t humiliating, besides who cares and what does the stadium have to do with anything?

    I think the tortured souls are anyone that live in a fantasy world that we will ever see an OCS.

    By comparison Heinz is a Rolls Royce compared to the bench seats, no bathrooms, no amenities of Pitt Stadium.

    Sorry but the logo or striped end zones don’t bother me.

    Poor football teams bother me a great deal.

    Is the fact that we got beat by inferior teams a new Emel conspiracy, like Voytik was better than Peterman, and the coaches were out to get him. Or how the ACC will dump Pitt for Temple because they may build their own stadium? By the way ACC Fans love coming to Heinz.

    We lost those games at Heinz for the same reason we lost those games in the sixties. We stunk! Or maybe Emel is right, it is the curse of Heinz or maybe Pitt Stadium, I’m not sure. Must be a conspiracy of the BOT.


    1. You obviously didn’t get the drift of my post. Sure those were bad losses….but they were to legit teams and programs. Do you compare losing to UCLA or Notre Dame to losing to the Akron Zips ?


      1. All teams have bad losses these days, Appalachian St beat Michigan. Temple finally beat Penn State, although Temple was actually pretty good that year.

        Pitt’s poor losses have nothing to do with playing at Heinz. Nor did stinking in the late 60’s have anything to do with Pitt Stadium. Poor football is poor football, wherever it is played.


    2. Acc fans love Heinz cause it’s a pro stadium with amenities. They also love the City and skyline. But do you think many visit campus? Pitt has a chance to market the university but they market the City and Ketchup instead.


        1. Are you denying that Pitt investing upwards of $150 million didn’t have something to do with it wiseguy ?


          1. No doubt, you need competitive facilities. But it won’t work if you don’t have competitive coaches.

            The Steelers are pretty competitive in that so called crap hole.

            The Pens didn’t get more competitive when they upgraded facilities.

            You win with personnel and coaching, not with nicer logos or uniforms.


            1. Huh, the Penguins have won 2 Stanley Cups in just 6 or 7 seasons at PPG and have never missed the playoffs since it opened.

              Maybe you never heard the story of what Hayden Frye did at Iowa Hawkeyes when he got there.
              It all goes hand in hand.

              Why do you think Johnny Majors changed the colors and uniforms at Pitt in 1973 ?


              1. In fairness:

                Pitt hoops went 29-6 in their last season at Fitzgerald. That was Howland’s 3rd season.

                The Penguins lost the Stanley Cup Final in 2008 and won it in 2009. 2009 was the last season at The Igloo. The Penguins haven’t missed the playoffs since Crosby’s first season. Fingers crossed on this season. I’ll be at the Paint Can tonight!

                Now this, “sht logos and sht endzones don’t bother you” I am totally behind. I bitch about it every home game. That, and the blaring recorded music. I don’t bitch about the yellow seats, but I am sure improving the fan density closer to the field would help the energy.


      1. So what was Pitt Stadium’s culture? I’d say it was the coaches and administration that created a culture of winning or losing.


        1. duh…it’s culture was it was ON Campus…genius. 9 National Championship teams played there was part of the culture. duh Pop Warner walked the sidelines of Pitt Stadium. Ever hear of him…einstein


          1. Right and so did Carl DePasqua, Dave Hart.

            The Pirates no longer play at Exposition Park, or Forbes Field, but they still have their history.

            Same with the Steelers and Pens. Even the Yankees.


            1. That is true. But Pop Warner is considered an icon in Football history, the other 2 are footnotes that only old Pitt diehards like you and me, even know.

              As far as the Pirates, the STeelers and the Yankees, the difference is, they all play in their own stadiums, that are associated with them, with even the Yanks venue being named after them.


  76. Best idea was Upitt combo stadium upgrade at CM. I think the city would go along with that plan. Not sure we could convince the folks at CM to go along though.


    1. Give them some robots and protractors and send a couple hot strippers into the Robotics lab and they will change mind.

      Beautiful Site… Already a stadium just built it up like TCU vs. out.


  77. Venues do help create and nurture winning cultures. It’s not the only thing but it does help. How does Heinz help Pitt? Besides you old geezers getting to slouch in backed seating, getting to order a cholesterol filled primantis, having an easy way in and out before you slep back to your cozy homes in cranberry.


    1. LMAO… true, College football isn’t supposed to be about creature comforts. I stood the whole game the last Pitt game I attended. A lot of the better programs, their fans stand. the 12th Man !

      You want creature comforts go to Pirates game, plenty of tickets will be available in the Club seats


      1. If you stand at Pitt games you get kicked out. I’m serious.

        Going into the infamous Cincinnati game several years ago, my buddies and I agreed that we were going to stand and scream the entire game…give our best support possible. The people behind us had the ushers come down and tell us to sit down because we were blocking their view. We ignored their orders, and said it is our right as a fan to stand up, yell, and support our team. Minutes later, the cops arrived and told us that we would be forcibly removed if we did not sit down. True story.


  78. “In 1979, Hayden Fry helped to create the Tigerhawk, the logo seen on Iowa’s football helmets. Since both teams shared the colors of black and gold, Fry gained permission from the Pittsburgh Steelers, the dominant NFL program of the 1970s, to overhaul Iowa’s uniforms in the Steelers’ image. Fry’s idea was that if the team were going to act like winners, they first needed to dress like winners. Fry had originally asked Steelers Defensive Tackle “Mean” Joe Greene for a replica helmet and home jersey; Greene was able to send Fry to one of the team owners, and three days later, the owners sent Fry reproduction copies of the home and away uniform of Steeler Quarterback Terry Bradshaw, making Iowa one of only a few schools to use the uniform scheme of an NFL team.”


  79. The OCS is a red herring that distracts us from the real problem with Pitt Football. The lack of commitment, from the Administration, Students, Faculty, Alumni and community at large. There will never be an OCS if the first problem isn’t solved.


    1. Don’t you think, that announcing plans for a new Pitt Stadium….would be the resounding opposite of a lack of commitment from the Administration. That strong commitment from Admin, would then energize the Alumni and the Students.

      So you got it backward, but no problems there is a epidemic of backward thinking these days 🙂


      1. You mean like the Wall?

        If we build it they will come. Maybe Mexico will pay for it.

        I’m probably going to get banned for that, oh well


    2. Granted. A top 10 team will fill Heinz. It did in the past.

      They ought to rename Heinz “Pittsburgh Stadium at Heinz Field”

      You’ve got the Stillers and the Panthers all wrapped up. After all, it is Pittsburgh Stadium.


  80. And it worked, Iowa who hadn’t been to the Rose Bowl since 1958, was in the Rose Bowl in just 2 years(1981) from Fry’s arrival. And another trip to the Rose Bowl in 1985.

    Prior to Fry’s arrival, Iowa hadn’t had a winning season since 1961.

    So he knew what he was doing.


  81. Steve changed us from Pitt to Pittsburgh and introduced the DinoCat. Maybe if we had a better coach and a couple of bowl games we would still be using them.


    1. We had a bunch of bowl games with the Groundhog helmets. Including our only New Years day Bowl since 1983. Most of us still hated them…didn’t you ?


    2. no way the dino cat would have survived regardless of record.
      and we are Pitt and not Pittsburgh and in script with the right colors
      Cornhole was a buffoon.
      All this marketing created a mockery of the Pitt brand and one could argue helped created a mess on the field. You really think Fitz loved that dino cat.
      Kids get motivated and pumped up wearing cool things. This crap from Cornhole just dragged everyone down.


    1. I used to teach children about the difference between needs and wants. More than a few want an OCS, but it will take a lot more to convince the BOT that we need one.


      1. You can’t convince someone ignorant and short sighted.

        If the BoT or the Knights of Gallagher are the problem, you eliminate the problem.


    2. We do…..They don’t.

      One thing is for certain if we can’t all unite behind an OCS, it will never happen.


  82. I like the needs and wants argument. Pitt needs a winner. Well we all want one but we need sports to win because

    Helps increase applications
    Helps create a better quality applicant.
    Helps increase donations
    Helps increase the brand equity
    Helps increase revenues
    Helps make everyone happy and not pissed off

    How how do we make sports win? It’s by changing the culture and mindset.

    Some answers are found in building on campus venues.

    Some are found in appreciating that front porch.

    Sometimes it’s simple things like changing colors or your name.

    But believe me. A university is defined by sports these days to a large extent whether our chancellor or anyone else thinks differently.

    Pitt accepts mediocre sports but wants excellent academics. You need to be excellent on both. Thank you Wisconsin and Stanford for leading the way.

    It sucks to be a Pitt sports fan right now.

    And my degree is more influenced by sports than some arbitrary academic ranking. Perception is everything. Seriously what employer knows your programs ranking and if it’s even true. You hire people and see them perform. Then you create your own qualified ranking.

    The beauty of sports is that it opens the door. It engages people. It’s a conversation piece with strangers. It helps connect people to something physical and emotional.

    Academics can’t really do that.


  83. How about we open the purse just a bit, hire a HC who has already been a successful HC in D1 and pay him a reasonable salary?

    But Pitt hires ex-coordinators as first time HCs so they can pay basically nothing. Well, we got what we paid for with PC and PN. Both of them not great at creating winning teams and programs.

    Everyone thinks I loved PC as our HC and I did because of the external issues, but I don’t think he was that good of a game day coach here. Nor do I feel PN is either.

    Actually I think PN is in over his head here.


    1. Totally agree. Again a cultural issue. No school serious about sports hires a coordinator as their head coach. You hire a proven coach. But Pitt is cheap. Cheap and half arse gets you mediocrity.


    2. the two times recently where they hired an existing college head coach turned out to be the two of the worst hires Pitt ever made…. and one of those times, Pitt actually did open the purse strings that was competitive at that time

      and the recent bb hire was also very experienced coach … and also a disaster


    1. If Coach Stallings goes winless in ACC play this year, and does not get fired, then what is the expectation for next season? 4 to 5 wins in ACC play? 10-11 wins in ACC play? If he gets a mulligan this season, then next season has to be make or break. And, how will the powers that be measure it?


  84. For the most part (and of course there are exceptions), but generally speaking, only 2nd rate programs hire inexperienced Coordinators to be their HC’s.

    Let Vandy or Pitt be the ‘on the job training’ places as in Franklinstein and Chryst/Narduzzi and the Pedo States and the Wisconsins are the benefactors.


  85. I think that student participation in the ZOO benefits the kids and the school (well, maybe not this year). It adds to student life. It added to my life when I was there. I go back to see the teams. I do not go back to see the the Physics or Engineering buildings,


  86. I just don’t get how people say facilities and uniforms don’t matter.. What did Oregon have before Phil Knight brought in the uniforms and COMPLETE overhaul of Outzen Stadium?? Nothing! Sure they had Dan Fouts in the ’60s and the ’94 team that got ROUTED by PeeSU in the Rose Bowl but not much else.

    Those facilities and those uniforms created a buzz.. or in their case a “quack” that filtered all the way down to California– and the recruits came.

    Pure and simple– OREGON CARED ABOUT WINNING, found the resources (Nike).. and they won. Funny how that works. Oklahoma State did the same with Pickens. (I know they’re not “urban” and I know they’re larger schools so please don’t respond with those excuses.)

    And for those of you that don’t think football matters, see PeeSU. Down here in Harrisburg, a “farm school” diploma ALWAYS gets you to the interview round. There is actually the perception down here that it’s a good school. So, kids go there.

    And there is a reason that alumni donate to other things and not athletics.. because Pitt hasn’t created a connection. And all the free fantas and stupid fan experience committees and time out ceremonies won’t create the connection either. Until the University says, “THESE ARE OUR TEAMS AND HOW THEY COMPETE IS A REFLECTION ON OUR COMMITMENT TO ACHEIVEMENT, ACCOMPLISHMENT AND EXCELLENCE” students and alumni will always view them as a diversion. Pitt itself, continuously SHOWS that sports are unimportant. Why wouldn’t students and alumni feel the same?

    And I will politely disagree with you on this, Reed- MOST people don’t discuss Salk or Pitt’s standing as a research institution when the school comes up. Most women unfamiliar with Pitt say, “I love Pittsburgh!” and most men say, “Dan Marino! Mike Ditka! You guys have had some good ones!” Now, maybe you run in a more “sophisticated” crowd than I but I think you are COMPLETELY wrong in that regard.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I lived quite a few places myself. Currently in the 2nd biggest Banking Headquarters in America, was #1 for a while. Use to be downtown all the time mingling with all college educated people.

      Nobody and I mean NOBODY ever talked academics, in the 20 years I frequented downtown. I also
      lived in the DC area which was another highly educated area.

      Nothing much in that area either. Even though I hung in Georgetown area of DC, with those snobs.


      1. What we did talk about were some epic Pitt/Georgetown battles in BIgEast basketball.

        Not Pitt’s Katz School of Business or Georgetown’s Walsh School of Foreign Service.

        I wouldn’t have won that battle anyway 🙂


    2. totally agree

      seriously i dont even know Pitt’s academic ranking. frankly dont care at this point. Texas Tech > Pitt down here and I know Pitt is a better academic school just based on SAT scores if that is 1 criteria

      i do care about sports rankings; something people see every freakin day
      every day on TV
      dont tell me sports dont matter people; if so you are a fool, a tool or just plain ignorant
      perception is formed first by sports

      nobody engages in conversation about the learning at the school
      businesses know what schools to recruit at but the causal person knows very little about what makes a school good or bad
      sports though helps define good or bad very easily for right or wrong

      for instance, i know that Louisville cheats and is unethical
      I know that Penn State allowed little boys to be raped, allows frat pledges to die
      I know Baylor allowed girls to be raped
      all through sports people

      our athletes and sports teams are a reflection of our schools. why are we in the acc then?

      i go back to see sporting events, places i got drunk or laid; not the lecture hall or lab; that was torture.

      the only thing Gallagher cares about is sipping tea with his pinky up.

      Liked by 1 person

  87. Has there ever been a POV survey that asks the question, “Would you like to see Pitt build an on campus stadium/event center in the next ten years”? YES NO


  88. I don’t know about that but when the discussion turns to higher education that’s what is talked about.

    Now if we are talking about football and Pitt is mentioned then that’s what is discussed.

    If Stanford, or say, Boston College is mentioned I don’t say “Hey, Doug Flutie!”

    If Penn State is mentioned we talk about the scandal by and large…that is like the elephant in the room.


    1. if stanford is mentioned i say great academics and athletics. and beautiful campus. thats my perception. thinking techie students…coeds with bigger brains than boobs

      with BC, I dont know what to say; catholic; private; new england; a wanna be Notre Dame; but I sure know doug flutie…loved that midget.


  89. No offense, Reed but how many people “engage in discussions about higher education”?

    Are those people smoking pipes and wearing tweed jackets with leather elbow patches???

    I’m saying..

    You walk into a party, family gathering, hell anywhere, and somebody sees your Pitt shirt or asks where you went to school.. and you say PITT.

    What do they say? Cuz if the scenario is BC YOURE DAMN SURE they say Doug Flutie. And when it comes to Pittsburgh, it’s not the international school, semester at sea or graduate school programs. It’s FOOTBALL. Even the women.. it’s FOOTBALL.

    What are the ratings for NFL versus Masterpiece Theater?

    I can’t quote you Kipplingers college rankings but I can tell you who’s in the top 25. My wife doesn’t even watch sports but she knows who’s GOOD- spoiler, we’re not.

    Let’s not be obtuse here.


    1. Jay – how can i be obtuse when I’m talking about my own experiences?

      I believe a hell of a lot of people discuss way more issues issues other than sports. I know I do. My sports interest lies solely in Pitt football and that is it. i don’t care about professional sports at all, hate the NBA (and I played BB for every day of my life until I was around 22).

      I watch NFL only when I invite a couple of friends over to eat and watch maybe three times a year.

      I really don’t care about Pitt players in the Pros that much either except for some pride that they went to Pitt – but I don’t follow their careers all that much – I’m way more concerned what they do in college – and no, I don’t believe putting kids in the NFL impacts recruiting all that much either.

      I’d say that Pitt football is a part of my life for sure – but I I wasn’t doing this blog I’d watch only Pitt games on TV on gameday and that’s probably it.

      BTW – Masterpiece draws around 6-9 Million – NFL games around 15 million… but Masterpiece is on every evening so it actually outdraws NFL on a weekly basis.

      Sports aren’t the draw they used to be when it was virtually the only entertainment around… which is why we see less and less people in the stands across the sports board and why TV ratings have been declining over the last decade.


  90. you’re right. nobody talks about academics in an informal setting when schools are brought up. they bring up the latest news and normally its about some sport or some bad thing that just happened on campus. they dont bring up how Professor X is published in 35 countries, or how the Engineering program is helping build a Wall, or how research is being conducted to save countless salmon.


  91. I’m going to agree with Reed in that people don’t use sports to determine what school they go to. I can guarantee you I didn’t.

    But, others are correct that sports are brought up when speaking about schools with others, especially if you were in different majors. However I’ve been in plenty of conversations with other engineers about my educational experience at Pitt. Also, when I’ve talked with friends kids about universities sports are never brought up, unless they are planning to play at a school.


    1. sports and outside class activities should be brought up. its part of campus experience and life. every kid down here has strong allegiances to schools based on teams that they grew up rooting for. Seriously the engineering program at A&M and Texas are no different. But if you got brought up in an Aggie family, you sure the Hell arent going to Texas.


  92. I often wonder what others think of us Pitt alumni and fans. Now granted much of that perception is influenced through sports.

    A Nitter: The Pitter was not smart enough to be accepted into Main Campus…not Penn State worthy. The Pitter doesnt appreciate conservative rural values. The Pitter is our little brother.

    A Hoopie: The City Slicker is elitist and liberal. The City Slicker is not one of us. The City Slicker is lost in spirit and soul outside the City…we’re those Atlanta businessmen in Deliverance.

    Now we Pitt alum and fans also have pre-conceived notions about those schools as well.
    WE call Penn State fans and alumni Nitters and Pedos. We consider them arrogant pricks. We cant stand how they can so blindly support an institution that failed to protect innocent kids. Their identity in life is everything about WE R Penn St

    I know I’m stereotyping and not everyone is this way.

    Just like not every Hoopie (but most) rapes sheep, needs a good flossing, has incestoral relations with their cousins, has a degree worth less than toilet paper.

    But many of these perceptions again are formed through and maintained via sporting competitions. Thats what makes college fun. The chance to talk trash, demean your neighbors, and win bets.

    Pitt is doing a good job making the college experience boring and really embarrassing as an adult.

    So PLEASE dont tell me that Sports dont matter.


  93. Talk turns to academics as they sure cannot get a pleasant football or bb conversation going about Pitt, or Reed changes the conversation to academics quickly to avoid the embarrassment that has become Pitt sports.🤣
    With emel on 1940s endzone and bird dropping at midfield and urban yute musak. It is the image we present to tv audience – cheap and 2nd class. Look at Steelers field on Sunday.


  94. I have friends that went to both WVU and Penn St. We would joke about certain aspects of the opposing school, but it was just that, joking. Do I want us to beat both of them, of course, but I don’t let it effect my life if we don’t.

    I love Pitt sports, they are the only sporting events that I plan my schedule around. However I know that they do not define the university.


    1. it doesnt totally define Pitt or alumni but it does help define you
      more people know about Pitt sports than Pitt academics. Thats a fact
      Sports is in the news every day
      But Pitt doesnt take sports seriously and this lack of commitment to excellence is hurting the brand
      If a school doesnt care about sports which generates millions and costs millions to support, how can it really care about academics?


      1. I agree that having a good sports program is a nice thing for discussion with those from other schools. And I truly wish are programs were better.

        I am an optimist on the football side and pessimist on the basketball side right now. And we are losing a ton of money with the Pete empty every night. But for to believe that if you don’t have top notch athletics then you can’t have good academics is illogical and proven by the best academic institutions out there.


        1. Saying that, we are not at the level of some of the best academic universities either.

          I was just saying sports is not the end all be all. We all wish Pitt was great in football. And when I say all, I mean all that post on and read the POV. We are the Pitt sport nuts and we are definitely in the minority of the alumni.


        2. I’m saying you can have both. Pitt doesnt believe so.

          An acceptance of mediocrity is sports is troubling when sports helps define a university’s reputation, generates millions and costs millions to support.

          The ACC exists for sports…not academics. Pitt was accepted based on sports and a nice academic resume.

          If Pitt cant support athletics, what makes you think it can support academics. We have already seen the academic slide slip. We know that with good sports comes more applicants, better quality applicants, more donations, better brand equity.

          To me Pitt is incompetent and negligent.

          The best academic institutions out there are military schools and the Iveys. They are a different breed…no athletic scholies.

          But Stanford, Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame are also very good. Far better than Pitt. Yet they also have great sports programs from top to bottom. They obviously feel sports is very important for some reason. And their students do as well.

          Sports and athletics feed each other.

          Pitt is not balanced. This has and will continue to erode the academic side.


          1. But I’m jousting at windmills. I dont expect the Chancellor or most alumni to ever see my perspective.

            I am glad that Pitt isnt solely defined by sports. I am saddened that Pitt misses the connections.

            I’m glad we can have discussions on here. Anyone posting definitely loves Pitt in some way. If only Pitt could harness it.


  95. it doesnt totally define Pitt or alumni but it does help define you
    more people know about Pitt sports than Pitt academics. Thats a fact
    Sports is in the news every day
    But Pitt doesnt take sports seriously and this lack of commitment to excellence is hurting the brand
    If a school doesnt care about sports which generates millions and costs millions to support, how can it really care about academics?


    1. Like, I think it was you, who posted earlier….what are we doing in the ACC, a Power 5 Conference, if they aren’t interested in sports. The ACC is after all…….A SPORTS CONFERENCE !


  96. I was accepted to EVERY school to which I applied.. including PSU. And I went to Pitt, in LARGE part because I was a Pitt fan and wanted to see my teams play in person. I was in the top 10% of my high school class and could have gone to Michigan, George Washington, Purdue, among many others. Don’t tell me sports don’t matter.

    My daughter is a freshman in high school and has always wanted to be part of the Oakland Zoo. Don’t tell her sports don’t matter.

    Only our BOT and erudites don’t think sports matter.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Jay – i think your experience as a sports fan who has an college level athlete daughter is somewhat unique among families. At least I think so – every conversation I have had about what schools kids are going to attend has always been about academics and financial considerations – except for a friend of mine whose kid plays lacrosse (big here) and he wanted Johns Hopkins since he was a kid.


  97. The ACC is not just in business for sports there is literally 10’s of billions of dollars out there for research that now the likes of Pitt Duke and others now do not have to share with others when they partner as a conference instead of against each other tim


  98. Ahhh pitt in da ville, that is not an accurate statement. It is a proven fact that applications increase at institutions where sports programs are successful. The following is borrowed from like 7 different articles outlining how a successful college football team can transform an entire university. When in doubt, blame the facts.

    Nick Saban was hired in 2006-07.

    Enrollment at The University of Alabama reached a record high in 2006-07 of 23,878. In 2016-17, enrollment is 38,563, up more than 2 percent from last year’s record class of 37,665.

    In 2006-07, Alabama received 15,761 applications. In 2016-17, it received 42,802 applications. Coincidence?

    It took former university president Dr. Robert Witt and Moore to make football a priority again, and nearly every athletic facility was upgraded, including Bryant-Denny Stadium with the north-end zone expansion for $45 million. “This has been a university commitment,” ESPN college football analyst Tom Luginbill said. “Not an athletics commitment, not a football commitment. That university has committed to athletics as a whole and as a result everything on the campus, from enrollment to things that have nothing to do with athletics have benefitted.”

    “Young people want to be a part of something exciting,” men’s golf coach Jay Seawell said. “When they’re choosing schools, what Coach has done and what he brought to the university is a great attraction to 18-year-old kids. That’s why I believe kids from all over the country are interested in Alabama.

    It’s only fitting that the admissions tour for the University of Alabama starts in Bryant-Denny Stadium. On game days, the campus’s iconic quad — a painterly expanse of lawn, majestic trees and bell tower — becomes a crimson and white tent city of numbered tailgating plots, some with electricity.

    For the admissions office, more applications mean more selectivity. Six years ago, 64% of students applying to the University of Alabama were accepted. By 2012, the acceptance rate had dropped to 53%. About one in four students from the 2012 freshman class carried a 4.0 high school GPA. The class also includes 241 National Merit Scholars, more than any other public university in the U.S.

    Clemson – please see above Alabama story and of course, this:

    “The success we have in athletics — and, specifically, in football — it helps us in fundraising,” Clemson president Jim Clements told The State. “The number of applications is going through the roof. The national visibility is increasing significantly. … It even helps me raise money for engineering and education and business because I can bring in CEOs and partners that want to watch a football game to help our business school or our college of engineering succeed.”

    Dilly dilly. I stopped at Alabama and Clemson. Ohio State is the same. Pitt will never get it under this leadership.


    1. Oh I’m sure the naysayers will deny all these facts. And maybe even call them a….wait….for it…..a


      1. Wow – talk about taking a slice of something and presenting it as across the board fact Emel !!

        You point to a few SEC schools and other schools that already have big football programs. How about all the colleges and universities that are not Power Five schools, nor FBS or Div II or Div III?

        That doesn’t hold true for them one bit.

        After all – when did Pitt’s enrollment have its biggest jump.That was in the 1990s when we sucked hind tit in football.

        I 100% agree athletics are very important for the college experience – but you all are making it sound like it is the be-all end-all factor in higher education and that just isn’t true.

        I loved going to Pitt and going to the ball games when i was a student. But my pride in the university doesn’t not revolve around the football program and i’d bet that holds true for most of us even on a blog that is dedicated to Pitt football.


  99. Huff – good to see some stats on what having strong athletics can do for the WHOLE university. Couldn’t agree more.

    I have to laugh. I love it when people say that something will ‘never happen’. That means that you can almost certainly count on it happening.

    It’s sad to see so many excuses being made for why Pitt can’t do this or can’t do that. Losers mentality – accept mediocrity and make excuses.


    1. “Loser’s Mentality”? That’s pretty insulting.

      Gee – want to stack up our personal and professional accomplishments on the table now? Is that before or after we whip out our dicks?

      What would you call 40+ years of wishing and hoping a University’s outlook and interest in a strong football program – with the dedicated resources to sustain it that way – would come to fruition… and then see the SOP attitude from the Administration over and over again?

      You tell me what has dramatically changed at Pitt since the mid-80s to make the football program stronger and better? Please list them for me because I – and apparently every single other Pitt fan on here – haven’t seen any real positive and constant changes being made to effect long term success.

      Have you?

      BTW – the creation of this blog and the continued writing of articles, our reader’s comments, etc. have way more impact on how Pitt understands what Pitt fans want, what they like, are angry about, etc… then anything you have done lately I’ll bet.

      May I ask how many hard copy letters have you written to the administration outlining your views and what you feel could and should be done? How often do you get back and forth email correspondence on your views of Pitt football from people at Pitt itself?

      How many phone calls do you make and receive talking about Pitt football issues and what Pitt fans feel about the football program and the administration with anyone in the athletic dept or elsewhere who could help effect change?

      I’d guess zero. But I do that stuff all the time in addition to having this blog.

      That’s why I keep telling you guys if you truly want your voices and opinions heard you have to put the effort into actually making sure Pitt can hear you. It isn’t enough to bitch on the internet and then hope something changes.

      Show up at LOI Day and other Pitt events – bend an elbow with the administrators there and grab them for a minute to talk about these issues – go to the spring game and other festivities and learn about the behind the scenes things that go on with the football program.

      Buy hey, I kinda doubt you make the real effort to do this stuff but calling others names…


      1. Reed
        I am traveling and am just now checking back in and obviously want to add clarification. I was surprised to say the least!

        First – I don’t call anyone a loser, and would not do so. Not who I am – in real life, or on a message board. I was referring to the general overall ‘whoa is me’ ‘SOP’ feel sorry for ourselves attitude that can creep in to us all (myself included) when we focus on what we can’t do rather than what we can do. Everything that you have mentioned is a great example of what all of us can do, and I applaud your efforts in that regard. I’m fairly certain that none of us individually has the $ to make anyone take notice but we do have a collective voice and a consistent message that hopefully can not be ignored so easily in large numbers.

        Please don’t take a misconstrued comment as a reflection of my opinion of anyone on this board, and certainly not you. I will be providing my email with this reply so feel free to reach out if you want to for further clarification.

        Thanks for your continued efforts, and also the other posters on this board that truly care and are proud alumni of Pitt. No one here is a loser in my book – never will be. Penn State fans and alumni on the other hand……I joke.


  100. Change of Pace—-Looks like Matt Canada will be announced as OC at Maryland. Nice work if you can get it. Many of us chose the wrong professions. Canada made $1.5 million at LSU plus obtained a $1.4 million buy out clause from LSU early this year. Now add to that whatever Maryland is going to pay him this season. By the way it been reported that the Maryland previous OC made a grand total of 500K last season. Yet I keep reading on the POV how cheap Pitt is in paying its coaches. Big 10 Maryland with all the Big 10 money paid just 500K for their OC. I’d bet Canada got a better deal than that on his contract.


  101. Sports matter … but they matter much more to us, the sports fans than they do to the academicians. An extreme example … I highly doubt that Jonas Salk spent his Saturday afternoons at Pitt Stadium.

    And to most of of the admin and BoT, all they mostly care about is the ROI of the athletic dept.


  102. On a sad note …. former Pitt All-American and NFL HOFer Chris Doleman is scheduled to undergo surgery to remove a brain tumor. FWIW, Doleman will most likely be an inductee in the Pitt HOF


  103. I see that ESPN Draft Analyst Todd McShay also thinks Brian O’Neill will be a First Rounder. These projections, coupled with the fact the he already received his degree, would make his early exit a no-brainer.


    1. We have seen this before about Pitt players and they have dropped to later rounds. Certainly hope it is true and he can join the wall of first rounders.


  104. For all of you Kevin Stallings apologists please read Craig Meyers article in today’s PG. It really paints an ugly picture with stats to back it all up. Beyond sad.


    1. Stats don’t tell the entire story without elaborate context or are cherry picked solely to prove a point.

      That being said a link to the cited article:

      It is rather damning. I have really liked Meyer’s work the past two seasons. It has to have been difficult to write about Pitt hoops during that time.

      I heard Stallings on The Fan this morning reiterating how coachable the players are this season and how much he enjoys coaching them. He said that they don’t always execute the way that the staff wants but that they are highly coachable. Something seems amiss. If the players are that coachable, wouldn’t they consistently deliver the desired behavior? Is it possible that they are being coached to do the wrong things?


  105. I am all for sports, love to see the University up its commitment. I would even love to see an OCS.

    But unlike some I think Pitt could be great at Heinz. Sports does enhance the college experience and should be given a higher priority.

    Maybe the timing is bad but Heather creating an HOF is a step to giving athletes a higher priority.

    I suggested before, start a Go Fund Me site for an OCS. See how many people are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Talk is cheap. If in 10 years, the ball still ain’t rolling, donate the money to the athletic fund for new uniforms and a bigger logo.


    1. Let’s say we raised $1 million dollars, which would be pretty good or very good on Go Fund Me.

      So where or who comes up with the other $140 million.

      Writing is cheap too !


    1. this is not good …. IMO the biggest area of concern for the upcoming season is the OL (by far)

      But this doesn’t surprise me … there will be a lot coaching changes nationally in the next few weeks as th rich will get richer. Hope this is the only one for Pitt


    1. Isn’t that a unique POV? I’ve been saying the same thing for three years. But – with him gone and a new crop of OL recruits onboard maybe we can find a OL coach like Joe Huber who was great at teaching these kids how to play OL.


  106. When I was at Pitt, we had a Golf team, Men’s Gymnastics, and a pretty good track team. Now we don’t even have a track. What track athlete would come to Pitt? I know Title 9 is responsible for some of this and that it has been good for women’s sports and I am all for that.

    Pitt’s decision to tear down the Stadium was a financial one. There is no Pickens, Nike, or Underarmor guy helping to pay the bills. The more successful schools have much bigger budgets because their fans support them. We can blame the BOT, but the blame is also on the Alumni. Businesses respond to demand. A better product can increase demand, but within limits. Michigan and Alabama can pay their coaches a fortune because their fans support it.


    1. Yes let’s blame the alumni for the futility of Pitt’s administration’s blunders concerning the football program over the last 55 years. Cause the alumni have so much input with the Admin and the BoT. There isn’t even ONE board member elected by Pitt alumni. Penn State has 9 Board Members that are directly related by their alumni.

      Yes let’s blame the alumni.


        1. There are maybe six or eight elected by the alumni committee or board. It’s board after board nominating and electing people. Most troubling is that 12 are appointed by the governor, senate and house leaders. A third are elected by politicians. None of which have ties to Pitt.


    2. I don’t see how fans or alumni are to blame. Yes we can support. But only fools support mediocrity and incompetent leaders. Fans haven’t let Pitt down. The administration has. Pitt fans are most loyal in world despite the crap they’ve gone through. The core of 35k supporters is better than the aggies core of 200k.


  107. Pitt already has an OL coach in residence in quality control coach Patton. I’d be willing to bet Narduzzi gives him the job.


  108. c’mon you guys … Peterson obviously did a great job with O’Neill .. and the OL of 2016 may well have been the best here since the early 80s


    1. obviously not

      and speaking of the 2016 team …. did you know the AFC has 5 Steelers starting for the AFC in the Pro Bowl this Sunday


    1. The drop off from one year to the next was the most disappointing thing about the Panthers last year.
      Obvious concern again for this year.


  109. @ Reed – I read your comment about loser mentality directed at PG. I think you are both saying the same thing. Not getting into the fray but I think he was saying the mentality is directed at Pitt leadership and BoT and they make excuses for not being competitive. The written word is difficult to understand instead of the spoken one.

    I know upitt wouldn’t miss this opportunity, so i will state the most hysterically funny thing to come out of matt cnada’s firing at LSU. Pitt couldn’t get Canada, Why? Because Pitt made a joke of an offer to him last year of $1M to stay when they knew he was leaving. Canada now tells AD/Narduzzi that if you want me to come back, I will take the million now. Narduzzi and AD get caught by the short hairs. They made a disingenuous offer to keep him and now that he can come back, Pitt turtles (kind of a maryland joke right there). Pitt got caught in their silly game charades.

    Whoever used the $500k Maryland analogy to say that maybe Pitt wasn’t so cheap because their OC earned $500k last year was funny. Have you seen Maryland’s record over the last 35 years? Very similar to Pitt, if not worse, i suppose. Pitt and Maryland pay the same because they are the same. We could probably hire the miami dolphins OL coach……that is a joke fellas! We should go for a home run OL coach recruiter and take the 10th coach money and pay him more. Where are you Joe Moore (RIP).


    1. do you know what he’s being paid at Maryland? Note that (1) he received a handsome buyout from LSU which will decrease if he takes another job, and (2) Maryland gets a heckuva lot more money from the B10 than Pitt does from the ACC


    2. Agree PG not commenting on @Reed with “accept mediocrity and make excuses.”

      Obviously ^^^that is not Reed. He may identify mediocrity and worse, and explains his reasoning, but never saw him make excuses.

      Not exactly sure why you took it as directed at you Reed.


  110. Does anyone know if the other schools in the ACC think better of Pitt football than we POVers seem to think of it? Clemson, Miami, for example? Pitt happens. – Hobie


    1. My guess is that we are thought as an above average team (at best) and middling team (at worst) … but doubt that we are considered as bad (even by the Hoopies although they won’t admit it)


    1. Narduzzi doesn’t know Sweeney and has long time ties with Patton. My guess is Patton will be named as soon as peterson packs his bags and leaves town.


  111. MD fans I know hate B10

    No familiarity as with ACC

    Like WVU in B12

    We lucky to be in ACC

    As long as they like but we cannot be a hanger on with bad sports forever


  112. Peterson great? Seriously? Has anyone forgotten his ‘rotating’ line for 2/3 of last year? Ugh. If Pickett and nooch were not so mobile the Ol would have given up 5 more sacks a game. Until Hall busted a couple big ones the running game was 2 yards and a cloud of dist. Good riddance. Next to go WR coach Sherman. What an underperforming group. Only ra ra showed an ability to find open space as our qbs fled for their lives. Am giving pass to Harley as lbs improved as season progressed. Are there no more Joe Moores? Sigh.


  113. My cousin from Philly has 2 fifty-yard line tickets for the 2018 Super Bowl priced @ $2500. But he didn’t realize that it was the same day as his wedding. If interested, he is looking for someone to take his place.

    It’s at St Joseph’s Church in Philadelphia at 3 pm. Her name is Tina and a good cook. She’ll be in the white dress

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Had to look that up. Didn’t sound to good 🙂

        Scrapple, also known by the Pennsylvania Dutch name Pannhaas or “pan rabbit”, is traditionally a mush of pork scraps and trimmings combined with cornmeal and wheat flour, often buckwheat flour, and spices. The mush is formed into a semi-solid congealed loaf, and slices of the scrapple are then pan-fried before serving.


  114. From what I read above Twerps fans miss the ACC. Therefore Pitt and MD should exchange places.

    We might have a better chance of winning a bball game in the BIgJoke.


  115. Speaking of bball. Pressure is building on Otis to win a game, so we might see some sort of
    monumental effort and other assorted oddities in tonight’s scheduled bball beatdown @ 9pm


    1. these discussions are being held off campus. You tell me that Heather couldnt lobby to hold them in Oakland? Oakland continues to be shat on by this administration.


  116. i say 6k tops for tonights game. Thats 50% of capacity. Thats roughly $300k in lost revenue. Our coach is making $70k per game. So Pitt is out close to half a million with just 1 home game.


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