We Pitt fans are mostly caught up in the moment and at this moment, or period of time more accurately, we are bemoaning the lack of support for the Pitt football program. At least we complain because it isn’t up to the level we feel it should be for Pitt to field competitive and, possibly, championship teams year in and year out. There are many reasons for this but the following article points directly to the main one. This is a fleshed out anonymously submitted email to me but echoes exactly my own knowledge of the modern history of the University and its relationships with it’s athletic department.
Pitt did not have a long tradition of big funding or emphasis on football or basketball between the greatly successful and national championship years of the 1930’s and the the less successful period before 2000.
Unlike the large land-grant universities or it being the sole major university in a given state, Pitt is surrounded by schools with far more alumni and fan contributions and external participation in supporting athletics. Pitt is not isolated Penn State with more than 40,000 graduates a year. Nor is Pitt like West Virginia as the dominant higher education edifice in the state. Pitt instead finds itself and its “regional territory” constantly raided by strong competitors Notre Dame, PSU, WVU, Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan State, Michigan, as well as fellow ACC members. Reality must hit sometime and it did 50 years ago.
Pitt had an Academic versus Athletic war going on in the 70’s and 80’s. Previously, this had happened in the Jock Sutherland days, but since that very early time Pitt had gotten along with middling success without a genuine fight between the two pillars of the university. But once Johnny Majors (45-45-1 at Pitt) and Jackie Sherrill (50-9-1) began their period of great success they pressured the university to relax some of the requirements to enable more athletically gifted but less academically strong athletes to be recruited. Also and based on their successes they asked for more money going to their programs.
That riled the academic side and caused large resentments as Pitt had recently changed from a purely private university to a state-related university because of financial problems. This threat of more money for athletics meant less for academic uses. We know which side won out; the academic side which Pitt did not want to diminish at the expense of a stronger athletic department.
The Pitt administration felt that they had a good enough athletic program without resorting to what the “football schools” had done. Pitt kept its academic side proudly but then allow for contented mediocrity and cost-saving efforts in sports. It was during this time that the Golden Panthers organization started cracking and big institutional financial backing for sports declined.
Pitt hired Mike Gottfried (27-16-2) from Kansas and there was no real hoopla associated with the hire. He did enlist a great recruiting director who flooded Pitt with some NFL worthy talent though. Also Pitt began to show better performances on the field. But and alas between rumors, crossed-emotions, and with Chancellor Posvar wanting to assert academics, Pitt and Gottfried parted ways leaving a new head coach Paul Hackett (13-20-1) to have to pledge total alliance with the academic side and thus began a destructive downfall of Pitt football.
This situation left Pitt in a deep ditch by the mid-90’s when no one wanted to coach here and we had to resort to practically begging Johnny Majors to come back for a second run. That was a abject failure until Walt Harris (52-44) restored enough success on the field to prevent Pitt from dropping football altogether.
So, with Vice Chancellor Jerry Cochran now holding tight purse strings on Pitt’s nonacademic side Pitt was out of the big financial support ballgame enjoyed by other universities. Pitt didn’t go to the Big 10 with Penn State when they did. Instead Pitt went into the basketball’s Big East conference which had just made concessions to allow programs into the Big East which had Division 1 football programs also. The payouts from the Big East in football were a fraction of what other non-BE schools were receiving in the other more football-centric conferences. Forget about huge payouts for basketball alone back then as that just wasn’t the case.
Pitt was falling further and further behind other conferences’ competitor’s football programs. It was not until Pitt removed the burden of maintaining or having to modernize Pitt Stadium and instead signed with the Stadium authority to play at Heinz Field that Pitt’s football program received a much needed monetary infusion for improvement. The stadium decision was hated by most Pitt football fans and students but without having done it there was real serious doubt that Pitt would have been able to continue playing D1 football.
So, where we stand today is with a new university administration that wants all sports programs to be successful and is trying to keep up financially, inside a strict budget, at the same time. The move to the Atlantic Coast Conference undoubtedly saved Pitt football (and possibly) basketball as the much larger payouts are benefiting the improvement of Pitt sports across the board. But what fans do not realize is where Pitt has been and what resources have been and are now needed to sustain success.
There is a reason that Pitt is not raiding other programs to sign $5 million a year coaches. Pitt can’t offer coaches astronomical salaries. Pitt neither has the history or the current resources to make those moves. Many schools will use endowment monies to supplement their athletic departments if needed – Pitt hasn’t and will never do that.
Pitt is certainly striving to maintain and to improve its athletic programs. When will the alumni and “fans” begin to really help? It would be interesting to see a cross section chart of contributions to various universities for academics as well as athletics listed separately. You know Pitt will be at the bottom somewhere for athletics.
(Hint: Someone out there has an interesting article to write…)
pittpov.com 
Reed, do you have an idea how much per year on average Pitt saved by moving to Heinz? Sounds more substantial than I first realized.
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Fran, not sure of the exact number but l was told between $35M – $40M. Remember that is in 1999’s dollars…put it this way that $35M would be $52M in today’s dollars.
Here is an excerpt from a 1999 Q&A about the decision to move to Heinz:
http://www.news.pitt.edu/news/frequently-asked-questions-about-university-pittsburghs-stadium-and-upper-campus-proposal
“But couldn’t Pitt Stadium be renovated?
Of course, but only at a cost running well into the tens of millions of dollars. Furthermore, this debt would have to be financed, which would mean a substantial debt service for the University. Most significantly, the result would still be a less competitive facility hampered by parking, traffic and access problems and less attractive to potential student-athletes, spectators and fans.
Why would it be so expensive to renovate Pitt Stadium?
Although much loved by generations of alumni and students, Pitt Stadium, at 75 years of age, has never been in greater need of repair. Among the necessary renovations would be replacing the playing surface, replacing and expanding the press boxes, building luxury boxes, expanding the concession stands, expanding and renovating the restrooms, and installing seats with backs. Because of the age of the stadium, seemingly simple renovations are extremely expensive. For example, replacing bleachers with seats sounds simple, but the poured concrete rows are not deep enough to accommodate the change. As a result, the entire inside of the stadium would need to be reconfigured.”
That last part is what most fans didn’t realize, the stadium was a physical wreck and would have had to be almost rebuilt. I strongly believe we’ll never see a stadium on the Oakland campus again.
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the only way that could be possible IMO is if several existing structures are razed, and I don’t see that happening
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Am I understanding you correctly that it cost $35M per year to operate Pitt Stadium?
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No – total rebuild coast would have been around that cost.
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That’s cheap, surely had the BoT been behind the effort, the State of Pa would have come up with the lion’s share of that. C
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But remember the decision to destroy Pitt Stadium was not made by the fan base. A discussion open to fans about what to do, how much it would cost, and how funds could be raised – this never occurred. The BOTS – Nordenburg, Pederson, and the pansies on the board of trustees – never reached out to alumni. I don’t think the trustees even had a clue about the ramifications of tearing down a home stadium. And the conjecture that fans stayed away because of the bench seating, poor parking, cardiac hill, is all ridiculous. It was the play of Pitt’s team that kept fans away.
I wish Pitt fans would stop with the revisionist history. Heinz is fine as a pro stadium. There’s nothing collegiate about it. Funny how Navy fans who park all over the Annapolis and Iowa fans, whose stadium is literally in the middle of Iowa City with fans hopping on buses to reach it, don’t avoid games because they’re not getting NFL pro treatment at the stadium.
If Pitt could field a couple top ten teams, Heinz would rock with 50,000 – 60,000 fans every game.
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I’m sorry but I find a major flaw with article in the paragraph beginning with …. So, with Vice Chancellor, Jerry Cochran now holding tight purse strings ….
This paragraph implied that Pitt had a choice to go to the B10 when PSU did but chose the BE. We all know that Pitt was in the BE more than a decade before PSU was invited to the B10, and if original BE Commissioner Dave Gavitt is to be believed, PSU also filed an application for the BE around the same time Pitt did. To my knowledge, Pitt never had a choice to join the B10 (unless it was decades earlier)
Otherwise, the article seemed to be accurate and made some very good observations
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I’m tired of the money excuse. Pitt could find donors if they had the right leadership.
Look at what Robert Morris and Temple raised for their projects in a very short period of time. If Pitt was truly serious about sports, had a dynamic AD, had some other high profile Pitt figures on a fund raising team, I believe Pitt would have the money needed towards achieving an excellent front porch.
But Pitt alienates us. Pitt has proven to be incompetent. Fans will help when they start seeing results and not Fanta gimmicks.
And Pitt needs to create new fans. You cant do that without reaching out into the communities. You cant do that without making student lives more fun on campus and improving their experience. If sports was a bigger part of Pitt’s culture, you would see increased donations. But this historic problem will take a good decade to fix. A good start would be a feasibility study for an OCS.
On campus venues help connecting people back to campus. They help with campus traditions.
And yes Pitt stadium was a dump. But there was no serious discussion to renovate it. My estimate is that renovations would have cost $150M. So Pitt took the easy way out.
Did the move to Heinz increase attendance? Slightly, but the venue is much larger and football is more popular today. So no.
Did it help Pitt’s brand like Pederson said it would? We would be recognized more regionally. Thats highly questionable.
Did it help us with recruiting? And winning more games. Pederson said it would. It obviously has not.
And then the administration said they would build dorms and have green space for the area. Instead they built the Pete. They built an arena for basketball but kicked football off campus.
On the matter of economics with Heinz, does Pitt lease to play? Does Pitt collect all the revenue from parking and merchandise and concessions sold? There is a dollar cost to playing at Heinz.
And what will the Steelers do when Heinz becomes a dump like old Pitt stadium and it becomes too costly to maintain. Its got another 10-15 years left. I can see the Steelers moving out of the City.
The bottom line is if Pitt continues to act this way towards sports, it doesnt deserve to be a member in the ACC. If Pitt is fine with mediocrity, wants to run tight athletic budgets, wants a clean program, then Pitt should apply for membership in the MAC. Pitt is not ACC caliber. UConn would have been the better choice.
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You articulate many of the arguments I believe are relevant. Pitt is it own worst enemy. For all the emphasis on academics, we fail to make the Top 10 and schools with much better athletics are ranked higher in the academic side – like Stanford, Michigan, Penn State, to name a few.
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Do we think there are any major benefits for paying $5 million for a head coach over $2 million or $1 million for that matter? As I previously posted “it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to coach college football”, thus I see no need to overpay its coaching staff. Did LSU really get $1.5 million in additional value over the probable $1/2 million Pitt paid Canada the previous season?
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almost all teams that pay $5M for a HC also has the resources t go with. Big booster donations, big stadium, big crowds, etc and all of these on consistent basis. Don’t worry about paying $5M, the issue is that Pitt isn’t even competitive with many of the coaches in the ACC Coastal. Narduzzi is the lowest paid of the division (2017 data) $1.83M (recently raised to $2.2M) …. Fedora UNC $2.3, Cutliffe Duke $2.6 and the others well over $3M.
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Pitt never paid anywhere near $1M for Canada in 2016 – more like around $400-500K
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Had Pitt not decided to assert academics in 1990 and not fired Gottfried, the perception of the program would be different. The program would have been respectable since 1973 to present. Instead, you hav a decade of futility where you lost alums interest, cost your program wins, NFL draft picks, donations, etc.
It was an extremely bad move. The talent returning in 1990 was pretty strong but the schedule was brutal. If Pitt was smart it would have realized that averaging eight wins a season is a positive. Then Wannstedt could have taken over in 1999 after being fired by the Bears.
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Gottfried was a better recruiter than game day coach. But he was bringing in talent.
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I think it is very telling that Pitt can raise 4 billion in endowments but very little for athletics. Says a lot about the mindset of alumni, corporations and foundations. I have been saying for some time it would take a cultural shift in values to increase the importance of Pitt Athletics. Also interesting that in a city that values athletics as much as anything, its University does not.
I think another major issue is that the poor job opportunities in the Pittsburgh region over the last 50 years have forced Pitt Grads to relocate. To many it has been out of sight out of mind and since many never had that RAH RAH Sis Boom BAH spirit to begin with they could care less.
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The bottom line for me and Pitt FB is this – a great leader evaluates the situation he is in, makes a plan for success and implements that plan. Is HCPN a great leader? Not sure because the results aren’t there for all to see, yet. Do we know HCPN’s plan for success? No, and his secretive ways intrigue me.
Did the Japanese know the USA’s plan for success after Pearl Harbor? Apparently not.
The 2016 team had a tremendous offense, but you would have never known that after watching the season opener. The D was it’s achilles heel.
The 2017 was young, the veterans who were to be leaders, failed their teammates and coaches. But those young players that remained, developed as the season played out and gained valuable experience, both on and off the field.
The 2018 team supposedly faces one of the toughest schedules among the P5 schools and is the toughest by far in the ACC.
I believe HCPN knows the hand he has been dealt and has built his plan for success around the fact that the BoT has de-emphasized sports at Pitt and the Chancellor along with the AD have no athletic fund raising capabilities. He is building a “TEAM” on a shoe string budget that will work hard, overachieve, believe in themselves, play in front of 40,000 fans on a regular basis and most of all, win football games.
Yes, the schedule appears to be tough, but so is this Pitt FB team. The top 3 OOC teams on Pitt’s schedule will be weaker in 2018 than 2017. Yes, the polls say otherwise, but name recognition & reputation rules the pre-season polls.
As for the ACC, every game is winnable in my mind.
NOTE: For clarity purposes, I am not calling HCPN a great leader, yet – I am only speculating what could be going on with Pitt FB. As a leader myself in the private sector of business and of my own household, this approach above is how I’ve succeeded on a limited budget in both business and my home.
H2P!
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Oh and I almost forgot to mention the most recent drain on the Pitt FB budget – the Kevin Stallings lead Pitt BB team who is losing money now as apposed to making money when HCPN first arrived in Pittsburgh.
But, Duzz is an overcomer and an excellent motivator of young men.
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I disagree. The greatness of Coach Narduzzi is still in question – two bowl losses, no top 10 ranking, and inconsistent performance on the field. He’s not getting paid like a great coach, nor is he earning the distinction. I mean we beat Miami but lose to North Carolina?
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Great article! Fleshes out the financial issues Pitt had prior to the move to Heinz. However, w that burden lifted, and with the big bucks rolling in from the ACC now, what excuse can there be for not allocating the funds necessary for athletic success. Regarding donor money, I’m sure their wasn’t much money coming in prior to the hey day in 1970s. If the school does it’s due diligence, I think the fans/alumni will follow. One more thing. Would the ACC have a financial floor in terms on monies spent among it’s colleges on athletics to help ensure a competitive balance among it’s member schools?
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Good question on what the ACC may look at. I think the ACC wants schools that will enhance the reputation of their league and bring in revenues.
So they look to filled football stadiums, getting to bowl games, being relevant in sports programs.
Well, Pitt averages 45k which is average to slightly above for ACC schools.
Pitt generally gets to bowl games even if lower level…still means money flows to the league.
Pitt is using the money to improve sports…look at volleyball and soccer. Soccer of all programs is now helping enhance the ACC brand…took a good hire and investment/belief.
But Pitt has a long ways to go. It’s at the bottom of the league in overall sports rankings (used to be called Directors Cup). Pitt gets beat by most MAC schools.
Pitt just doesnt have the money to invest in scholarship programs. Good luck ever seeing a lacrosse or hockey program funded with these leaders. And yes, they are poor at fundraising because they are living on ACC money, a tight budget, a small amount of programs to fund, and willing to accept just being average with the occasional good season. Thats the Pitt culture.
And it directly impacts donations.
Compared to other ACC schools, Pitt doesnt have the same degree of sports culture. Its really one of the misfits like Wake, BC and GA Tech to some extent. I’m sure the ACC is fine with schools like Pitt that are decent at academics, dont rock the boat or challenge status quo, and allow the conference elites to beat up and pad their records.
Conferences actually like imbalance. It benefits the elite programs…easier path to BCS, higher rankings.
I just dont see why Pitt cant become more balanced. Its embarrassing to be at the bottom of overall sports standings and donations each year.
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I believe an 0-18 basketball team in ACC play will raise concerns. Part of Pitt’s appeal was a strong hoops program. Gee, look at us now.
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If this is the attitude, and I have no doubt that it is, why field athletic teams at all? Wouldn’t we save big bucks? And then the powers that be would find more important things to squabble about.
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Everybody can’t be a winner, in fact many more losers than winners. Pitt is content to just field a team. It has been that way for most of Pitt’s existence. We have just reverted once again to the norm.
Football could go either way, but basketball is doomed for the near future. One of the worst basketball teams in Power 5 history. Complete and utter incompetence by the administration.
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Actually you could consider it criminal. The hiring process of Otis that is.
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Didn’t Georgia Tech reconfigure their stadium? What was the cost for that. Didn’t seem that high, and they kept their on campus stadium even though the Georgia Dome was within walking distance.
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Everyone with an old stadium, has them refurbished, everyone but Pitt that is.
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GT knew what would happen to their program if they drew 50K or less into the cavernous 71,000 seat Georgia Dome. And how that would look in so many aspects, including recruiting.
Pitt had no foresight at all. or didn’t care !
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I will again point to the nepotism of the BOT. If basketball is so screwed up, as we all agree, then how does a BOT member having two children on the men’s and women’s basketball staff fit in?? This ,if nothing else is a very bad look.
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Great article it represents the constant push pull going on at Pitt between athletics and academics. I think it’s great that pitt values academics, but isn’t it possible to be good at both.
Pitt has the ability to do both and the means to do both. We are only a couple years into a new chancellor as much as I hate to say it we as fans need to wait and see!!!
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We have been waiting to see for 30 years.
A leader has a plan and makes positive moves towards the plan. Gallagher is a joke.
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Agree, appears to be nothing more than a bureaucrat put in charge of a government like run organization more concerned with maintaining itself.
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Tx Panther – spot on
Voluntarily giving money to an organization requires trust that they will do something beneficial with it and in alignment with your own beliefs. The past 30 years has completely eroded all trust with fans. For those of us that have donated, has that trust been rewarded? Fans are comprised of both alumni and local non-alumni. I’m taking about the former when it comes to donations. The latter have no real tie to the university so they will come and go based on pure entertainment value and likely not ‘donate’ (beyond ticket price).
The foundation for supporting athletics is rotten at its core. Any trust at this point with long time fans and alumni is completley gone. Pitt fans at this point are akin to being in a marriage of convenience – going through the motions because it’s the easiest thing to do, and hoping that someday things will magically get better.
Only a real demonstration of commitment (not success mind you – just real commitment) will start to regain the trust of the fans. I don’t see that happening without the BoT loosening the purse strings and completely rebuilding the makeup of the athletic dept.
Definition of trust – firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.
“relations have to be built on trust”
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If the article speaks the truth, and I have no doubt that it does, aren’t we all being foolish to hope for football championships. Going forward it appears SOP is what we can expect, sadly.
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Who honestly on here thinks an ACC Championship is possible with the coaches, support staff and AD on the payroll. I don’t. All I have to do is look at Narduzzi’s recruiting and Lyke’s Puppetry.
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I do and I’m expecting it from Narduzzi. Read my 9:19am post for clarification if you want more on this subject.
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Erie Good Luck with that. 30 years tells me all I need to know.
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You are younger than I am – try 35 years. I was in school with Danny Marino. Pitt FB went down hill fast when Jackie Sherrill left town.
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Pitt had a real chance to win the Coastal in 2015 but lost to UNC by 7 after spotting them a 20-3 halftime lead. Pitt finished second to UNC that season.
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Guys like EE & ike get it, while others mostly see problems and focus on the negatives. Just human nature I guess.
That is so easy to do with Pitt, considering it’s last 30 year track record.
Myself, I was appalled that the Peterson Event Center was not developed as a domed multiuse stadium that would serve as the home for both our BB & football programs. That was the worst of all moves that the University’s BOT made regarding athletics during that time period.
So here we sit today, a week before LOI signing day with a football coach that has a three year winning record of 21-17 with signature wins over our rival and eventual B1G Champ, penn state, the ultimate NCs in 2016, Clemson, & with our most recent “big win” game giving us a glimpse of our young QB’s potential as well as watching a breakout game from our up & coming defense shutting down another unbeaten top 5 team in Miami.
So,,,,,,typical of the veteran Pitt fan, we prefer to focus on the negatives of our overly difficult (top five) 2018 OOC schedule, a recruiting class devoid of 4Star blue chippers (so far) as well as rehashing the old reliable scapegoat of no OCS.
To my point, Narduzzi deserves better than us. When he does end up leaving Pitt for a better job, you’ll need look no further for the main reason for his departure than to peer into the closest mirror available.
And in your defense, please don’t blow the “go to” dog whistles that the pessimistic naysayers like to use that I’m nothing more than a brain dead “cheerleader” of a deeply flawed program, or worse yet, an unrealistic Koolaid drinking optimist that refuses to see the many warts of our football team that disappear when seen through my Blue&Gold colored glasses. Untrue. Here is what is relevent for this season.
In 2018, I’m holding Narduzzi’s feet to the fire. No Narduzzi apologist here, no 5-7 season due to this or that. Nope, time for Coach to produce in his fourth year, it’s his team now. However,,,,,,,,I’m also behind our coach 100%, giving support & credit to him for putting a team together that is going to be able to compete for the ACC Coastal Division Crown THIS year.
8-5 is what I demand from this coach, this season. Why? Because I’m certain that Coach Duzz himself demands at least that from his team too.
How soon we forget the amorphous lack of goal setting established for the Panthers from HCPC. Not with this guy. Narduzzi’s goal has always been, from day one, to win ACC Championships. This season, an 8-5 regular season record gets us there, if the wins are against our ACC foes.
There is not an ACC team these Panthers can’t beat, PERIOD. So even if we lose all three of our tuff OOC games to penn state, UCF & ND we can still win the Coastal.
The tuff OOC doesn’t matter, an average recruiting class for this year doesn’t matter, playing at Heinz Field doesn’t matter, even having a $hitty fan base that fails to solidly support their team financially and by showing up on game day, doesn’t matter.
What counts is the final score at the end of eight ACC contests this year. This coach with this team can & will be good enough to win those games.
That’s Narduzzi’s expectations, so I’ll hold him accountable for those expectations as well, cheering this team on all the while. And that support won’t change whether he’s successful in these aspirations or not. That’s how dedicated fans respond with support of their team.
So if you want to change things at Pitt, start with you, by contributing to the Pitt Athletic Fund. By showing up for games and by looking for the good in the program as well as admitting to the problems that need attention. It begins with YOU.
8-5 or die. Hail go Pitt!
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All flowers and spice. How sweet.
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Erie Express.
Leader in your “household?” Your married so if you’re anything like me, it’s doubtful. LOL
Don’t worry, if I ever meet your wife I won’t tell her you said that..
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Jay – Up on the mountain today you at Camp?
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Jay91 – she wants me to lead. Now, don’t get me wrong, I Lyke her to take control once in a while.
Enough said without getting into politics, religion or very personal & private stuff.
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I agree. What has Pitt done to earn our trust.
We fans are in an abusive relationship. We stop donating. We stop attending. Yet Pitt still calls and harasses us for donations. Criticizes us for not attending. Calls us poor fans.
All the blame is on us.
The BoT can p-off.
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You are the problem, but so are others in a position to change things too.
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Great academics and great sports.. excel on all undertakings. Why can’t we have both???
BoT needs kicked in the ass.
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Name another school similar to Pitt (smaller urban school) that consistently reaches what all here seems to aspire to. Notre Dame, and that’s it. Miami has had its times and TCU is currently at the level. But both are currently located in a hotbed of high school FB talent. Heck, this year the WPIAL produced all of two 4-stars … and that is it.
The norm for Pitt is 7 wins per year and that may be a bit optimistic. Pitt’s glorious past (from long ago) has tainted all of your expectations. Yes, the program can occasionally have a double-digit win season if the stars align, but it won’t be consistent. And I have serious doubts that even an infusion of money can make a significant change
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The answer is Michigan St. In the shadow of Michigan just like we’re in the shadow of Penn State. Historically, look at their football program and it’s eerily similar to Pitt. MSU has 11K more undergrads so it is larger and has a larger alumni footprint.
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I wouldn’t call East Lansing a large city either
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I wouldn’t call South Bend a large city either, nor would I call it urban.
I think you should include the successful pro sports aspect to your argument. Pitt has a challenge in the Burgh.
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Looks like Pitt is at a crossroads again in sports. Do we want to be like WF? Do we like to be 6 -6 in FB and at the bottom in BB? The answers are – that is exactly where we are now.
We can get worse of course. Then it would be time to either quit the ACC (no because of $$$) or spend more $$$ (I doubt it). So where does that leave Pitt.
I call it no mans land.
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I think the Pat Signal is up.
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Let me guess some 3 star.
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Yes, the DE from NJ whose brother was also a 3* and recruited by Duzz to MSU.
His brother was drafted by the Raiders in the 3rd round of the 2016 NFL draft.
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His brother would have come to Pitt had Wanny not been fired. Aaron Donald deserved a stud like Shalique Calhoun flanking him.
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Let me guess, who ever it is you’ll disapprove.
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PITT had some good recruits visiting this weekend.
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That’s not good. They’ll be half the crowd in attendance for the Syracuse basketball game. It should make negative recruiting even easier.
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Pitts resources are getting much better with ACC monies. When the ACC network kicks in, Pitt will be in the mid 30’s in millions as far as revenue by 2020. That is enough to pay for coaches, recruiting and expand the programs. Pitt is in the early part of improving the athletic programs. BB will get there once Stallings is bought out after next year and that albatross is gone. Pitt starts ti win and the response will be more fans higher ticket prices and contributions. I think Pitt will be a modest surprise in 2018 but 2019 Pitt will be a team that can win the coastal. Good things are ahead. It takes time to reverse the egg heads pull on athletics. .
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Stanford = Great academics, very good sports. I wish PITT was similar.
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Let me be the first to call BS on the savings rhetoric that has been sent out to the media in an effort to sway public opinion back in the day. It does not cost $35M per year to maintain a stadium. Not even close. Now, if you would like to say that the Administration did not budget for deferred maintenance and published a big number for everything that needed updated, I could believe that. This was most likely a mismanagement of funds issue that was spiraling out of control and the administration tried to cover up their ineptness. The administration offered up the sacrificial lamb of athletics under the guise of academic prowess. They were wrong and inept, but couldn’t admit it.
The best way to cover their errors was to affix blame elsewhere. They did it well. Reminds you of Peterson inventing a reason to can Wanny and then leading the media to the drink station. It is almost a reverse cult. We lied and covered up the real reasons for de~emphasizing sports. So why believe the bs now?
Dilly dilly.
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Again – $35M was the cost to renovate Pitt stadium – not a continuing cost.
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35M is jokishly high. They ignored the stadium for years where 95% of programs would of kept it up and proactively improved it. More ineptness at Pitt in Athetics.
Now Heather is the AD and has a basketball that no one cares about and does zero. Puppetry
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Where will we play when the Steelers move to a farm near where a bunch of highways intersect? Maybe CMU stadium because that will handle our shrinking fan base.
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Where I live in this Country, PITT’s rep is down. Penn State is king and getting stronger.
In the last 60 yrs., PITT’s academics reputation is down. Our ranking used to be in the top 40’s .
Athletics, really about the same. Loose some, win some. PITT was always a non player in minor sports.
It’s tough being in a rust belt city and expecting National recruitng for the major sports.
I would work on the academics first. I could see a closer relationship with CMU as an easier way of helping both schools. I think CMU alumni would resist. But what a novel idea, having two major universities joining and related to form a super regional University.
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Pitt and CMU have had a very close relationship for years and it continues to evolve. There is a lot of collaboration between faculty of both schools, classes in quite a few academic programs can be taken and accepted reciprocally, etc. It’s a very symbiotic relationship from a grant perspective. They need our access to medical faculty and translational medicine infrastructure, we need their engineering and computational excellence. It will continue and improve, but will not reach the level of Harvard and MIT.
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Would have cost more than that to truly renovate that dump. They had cheap ideas then. Whole stadium needed gutted and completely rebuilt. That tag would be easily $100M. So much wasted space now on that plot.
No serious consideration was ever given to renovate. Would have required fundraising. Would have taken time. Had a tax payer built stadium ready to move in.
So I can understand the choice. But don’t tell me that it would help recruiting, produce more wins, increase attendance, be better for the brand, and free up space for dorms and greenery. That’s what Peterson said.
We razed Pitt stadium and built a basketball arena in its place. We kicked Pitt football off campus. Let that sink in.
What school does this?
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Can’t think of one that is in a P5 conference. NOBODY tears down football stadiums without a plan to replace them. Replace them….not play in an NFL rented stadium.
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Miami, USC, and UCLA never had their own stadium. Don’t think they talk much about building their own. UCLA and Miami are a hike to where they play
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Alas, there is common ground with Upitt and myself. Heck, I don’t necessarily disagree with the second paragraph all together. << still a little too early for me to make that statement though. I hear she’s doing good things all around for the sports teams.
PITT stadium’s biggest problem was there was indeed no upkeep. It still had good bones but the guts were hemorrhaging badly. However, it was still worth it to give the old beauty a complete makeover and the number is 35 mil? PITT supporters and all future students were sold down the river for peanuts.
So let’s see, Majors and Jackie saved PITT football once. Then I believe it was Mike Gottfried that saved PITT football. Then tearing down PITT stadium while ripping out most of the real PITT football supporters hearts saved PITT football for the third time. One question as I say, this all seems a little convenient to me, how does tearing down an iconic landmark while insulting former athletes and alumni while pushing away boosters qualify as saving PITT football.
It has always been very evident to me that there was a distinct attempt at destroying PITT football but it just won’t die. And the PITT football program continues to hang on and survive as we our all about to witness what perseverance and love for a university and the hometown college football team can do. Up next? The ACC Coastal Championship. PITT football is moving forward…. ike
H2P!
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35 million and we still would need a bball facility, plus operating costs for both
Easy to second guess at this point, but I bet we were closer to D-2 than we were to
renovating Pitt Stadium. Plus when you renovate things you are required to bring them up to current code,
just think about that for a while.
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Pitt could have teamed up with the Penguins to get PPG Paints Arena built sooner. In the meantime the Civic Arena would have been just fine.
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In fact if they would have been smart, the original home of the Penguins was Oakland at the old Duquesne Gardens. And they could have had the new Home of the Penguins and Pitt basketball at a new arena in Oakland.
Imagine what over 40 home hockey dates does to the entertainment/food/bar business and others in Oakland combined with Pitt’s another 20 home basketball dates, plus all the other entertainment concerts that Arena provides.
What a boost and actually an economic boom to Oakland that would have provided
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Er. what I meant was the precursor to the Penguins, the Hornets. And the Ironmen I think also played at Duquesne Gardens.
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I agree. And before Pederson we played our most important games at the Arena. Students could hop on a Forbes ave bus and be there in a few minutes.
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I have brought it up before, but it is time to resurrect the Golden Panthers. If you want nice things, you have to have money to pay for it.
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The bones of Pitt stadium weren’t all that good Ike – do you remember all the huge piles of dirt propping up the exterior walls from the inside all around the interior of the stadium? That was done in the 1960s because the concrete was cracking and crumbling and it needed to be supported before it imploded and, of course, Pitt went the least expensive way.
That stadium was never built to last much longer than 50 years or so.
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could have built a retractable domed stadium then and rec center for $250M. Home to both football, basketball, other sports and students. But no, it would have required fund raising. Took too much effort. Pitt always takes the easy way out.
Those within the BoT who are Nitters and who are are part of the academic intelligentsia are those who plot to tear down athletics.
Remember the BoT appointed a career bureaucrat and physicist to lead Pitt academics and athletics. Pitt’s AD reports to the Chancellor who reports to the BoT. Pitt’s AD is powerless. Pitt’s Chancellor will do what the BoT tells him.
The objectives are to operate a fiscally sound budget, maintain clean programs, offer ‘competitive’ teams, graduate scholar athletes, and meet requirements of ACC membership. All that is great. But we differ on what ‘competitive’ means and how sports can really aid in that front porch and increase alumni giving. That would take a cultural transformation however. The BoT protects the status quo. It is the SWAMP.
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If anyone wonders what the money saved from not renovating the stadium did here is just a bit of it…
“Between 1967 and 1976, Pitt added about 2 million gross square feet of usable space, bringing its holdings to 8 million square feet. New buildings during that time included: Forbes Quadrangle (renamed Wesley W. Posvar Hall in May 2000), Benedum Hall of Engineering, the Learning Research and Development Center, the Chemistry Building (now Chevron Science Center) and the Law Building.
Later in the Posvar era came Mervis Hall, the Biomedical Science Tower and renovation of the William Pitt Union (formerly the Schenley Hotel)”.
Pitt expanded greatly between the time Posvar began his chancellorship and when he left – fans may not like him because of his non-interest in athletics but Pitt grew in size and most importantly in prestige during his tenure.
“During the first 10 years of Posvar’s tenure as chancellor, Pitt doubled its enrollment to 35,000-plus students; awarded close to 56,000 degrees; increased the full-time faculty from 1,580 to 2,200; increased its library holdings by more than 1.6 million volumes to a total of 3.5 million, and attracted some $325 million in sponsored research dollars.”
http://www.utimes.pitt.edu/?p=1894
I can tell you, and I have written this before, but I sat and listened to major Pitt administrators and my parents and their Pitt friends discuss the university from the time I can remember back in the late 1950s and it was all about academics.
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and even today its all about academics. The imbalance between academics and athletics is most troubling. I do NOT understand why Pitt cannot strive to become more like Wisconsin or Stanford. Very well rounded schools.
Its a paranoia with Pitt’s BoT…delusional thinking that academics and athletics cannot peacefully co-exist and enhance one another. Its like competing factions. Bi-polar disorder. There are clinical terms for how Pitt thinks and behaves.
Pitt is F-ed up. Thats my clinical term. I stay clear of people like this. Maybe thats why fans and alumni refuse to donate and support.
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But Posvar was a big booster of Pitt athletics at the beginning. He hired Pitt’s best AD ever, Cas Myslinski, and brought in Johnny Majors I and the renaissance of Pitt football. Did the trustees just wear him down so that by the time 1989 rolled around, he was ready to de-emphasize? Who knows that story?
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Having success in anything takes vision, translation into a plan to achieve and effective execution.
When I hear Pitt say that they want to compete for championships in football and basketball (which they do – actually every time they hire a coach for either program) and we get the results that we have gotten, a rational person can only come to one of the following conclusions.
Either they are lying, or they are completely inept at providing the proper vision, plan, or execution of the plan. But there is no true support and accountability from the top so this is accepted. This will not change unless there is a major change at the top. Fanta Heather, HCPN, Rockports, are all pawns. I can’t even get mad at them anymore for being what they are and expecting them to overachieve.
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I think the Pitt administration wants to play championship ball but they don’t have the resources or true desire to make it happen.
Look – without one single player Pitt would have never won their last championship in 1976. That was the great Tony Dorsett. All his supporting cast on both sides of the ball were good – but no more so than some of the talented teams we have seen in the last 10-15 years. Dorsett made ALL the difference in those fours years.
I think some Pitt fans – and maybe more importantly the Pitt administration – feel like we can catch lightning in a bottle like that once again and one grand superstar will carry the team to a championship so they don’t have to spend more money to build talent all around…They just keep their fingers crossed another Dorsett (or Marino) comes onto campus again.
Pitt loves status quo in its football program. We want a D1 Power Five team for the external impressions that gives a university – but other than that? not so much interest in making it a big and successful program.
They will spend what Pitt makes on ACC and apparel sales money on football and BB and that’s it.
I’m one of those who, while I would love to see us build a bigger and better program – i truly think the only way we will rise above the play that we have had over the last 40 years is to have another Dorsett-like player or two who will carry the team. Lightning in a bottle in other words.
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thats fine if you want to catch lightening. but you cannot build a program that way. lightening comes around once every 30 years. the key is sustained success through other power sources. i thought Pitt was bright enough to understand this. They obviously dont.
but what do I know. Maybe the nerds in the Physics department are creating a time machine to go back in time to capture lightening exactly when it strikes. Kind of like Back to the Future.
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As far as using panther hollow area for a stadium? Here is what an earlier attempt by Ed litchfield (then Chancellor at Pitt) failed at doing…
“A God-given excavation” was Frank Lloyd Wright’s summation of Panther Hollow, which became part of the Pitt’s development plans in 1961. Litchfield accepted the challenge to transform this ravine into usable, income-producing space.
The Hollow, a prized Oakland real estate site, is a vast unsightly ravine stretching from the backs of the Carnegie Museums and several Carnegie Mellon buildings to beyond the Schenley Park Bridge for a mile, to near the Monongahela River. As president of OakCorp, the body charged with the redevelopment of Oakland, Litchfield and the university assumed leadership of the restructuring.
The ultimate design outlined the construction of a huge, $250 million complex, extending from the floor of Panther Hollow up to ground or street level. To be developed in stages, the final product was intended to accommodate industrial research centers, student housing, apartments, townhouses, restaurants, office space, courtyards and an auditorium. When Oaklanders, particularly business leaders, tangled with this grandiose idea, they mocked it with “Today Oakland! Tomorrow the world!”
Ballyhooed as “the world’s largest research park,” the Panther Hollow project was unveiled before civic and industrial leaders in June 1963. The first phase of this largest-ever undertaking for Oakland was to emphasize research space for local industries. But by the scheduled date to receive the signed rental leases, the industries had not responded. Groundbreaking was cancelled, OakCorp was devastated, and the chancellor was dismissed in July 1965.”
I remember talking with my Dad about this and he told me the reason it failed is that the City and the State would not allow the use of use Eminent Domain to acquire all the homes in Panther Hollow – and I’m sure that would hold even stronger today.
Panther Hollow and any park land inside city boarders will never be used for building a stadium of any sort – and no park land will be used for any reason other than smaller working buildings to support the city park system itself.
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the land property ownership has been transformed over the past 50 years. There is a much higher percentage of companies with legal rights to the buildings. Many of these companies are referred to as slum lords. These lords can always be bought out for a price.
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I have heard that the Corporate leaders in Pittsburgh decided around that time that they would leave Pittsburgh. Soon thereafter, the out-migration started, whether through hostile takeovers, (Gulf Oil) moving south or west (Rockwell Industries) poor management (Westinghouse) competition (US Steel, J&L), mergers, Heinz, Mellon Bank or moving headquarters Alcoa, Pittsburgh went from #3 in Fortune 500 companies to whatever we are now.
Probably very lucky that CMU and Pitt focused on academics and health care because Pittsburgh is a real success story today, especially compared to most “rust belt ” towns. Football and Basketball may be fun, but academics creates jobs.
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Almost impossible to catch lightening in a bottle these days. Tony Dorsett would never go to Pitt in this era.
He would have too many better “offers”.
The top twenty teams get 90% of the best prospects. Teams are deep, so that one or two great players are not nearly enough. Alabama brings a freshman superstar off the bench to win the NC. In basketball the Dukes and Kentucky’s get multiple one and done players almost every year.
The one thing that I keep bringing up and no one seems to pay attention regarding Pitt Stadium is the overall environment at the time. Pittsburgh was going through a massive political battle over replacing Three Rivers.
There was actually a regional vote that turned down the project, but somehow the City, County and State Fathers worked out a deal, which included a sales tax increase (in Allegheny County) and Pitt’s participation in the future Heinz Field. The decision was not made in a Pitt vacuum.
Pitt was never going to get State support for replacing or renovating Pitt Stadium. My guess is a nod and a wink took place for what became the Pete.
Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda has nothing to do with the reality at the time. Pitt absolutely requires the support of local,and state government, the foundation community. Don’t kid yourself, these decisions were made at a higher level than the BOT.
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PITT doesn’t need lighting in a bottle so much as they need to quit playing musical chairs and looking over the head football coaches shoulder.
Reed, we did talk about PITT stadium and the shambles it had become. I agree but was saying the demise of that place began in the 60’s and 70’s and maybe before. We all need to keep out house in order. ike
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The money and the ACC has changed the dynamic. Pitt needs to elevate football and renew the BB programs. Heinz is fine for the most part and winning will put some fannies in the seats and even 55K is a impressive number for most college programs. Pitt needs to create a better stadium experience which means cut one section out completely end zone high up would be my pick. except for high demand games. .But the past is the past and the money and what college football is today has little bearing on the history of Pitt lip service support. So with soon to be 4 times the money coming in now as opposed to the BE, Pitt has to step it up in both major sports. They have to comply with the ACC as to use and spending on athletics.
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“It was not until Pitt removed the burden of maintaining or having to modernize Pitt Stadium and instead signed with the Stadium authority to play at Heinz Field that Pitt’s football program received a much needed monetary infusion for improvement.”
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And we could have gotten State money to modernize Pitt Stadium.
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And you know this How?
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Being the largest employer in Pittsburgh and with the Gov on the BoT….there was something wrong if they couldn’t.
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Duquesne (natural) freshman Eric Williams scored 34 yesterday. He had no D1 offers until Duquesne came around late in the spring
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Like Pitt, Duquesne was picked last in their league. They are now 5-2 in A10.
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Well Pitt’s certainly living up to the predictions, aren’t we.
Duquesne would have beat us if their leading scorer would have played. Otis got lucky there.
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Temple University officials say they’re taking “the next step” toward building a $130 million on-campus football stadium.
Despite notable community opposition since officials began exploring the idea in 2013, university president Richard M. Englert said the school will now seek approval for the facility from the City Planning Commission.
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/01/18/temple-football-stadium-plans/#FDT4kUIBgyze67yS.99
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Funding is coming from BONDS and the money spent on rent at Lincoln Financial.
Even Temple, which has very limited or close to no football success is building a OCS.
Pitt will be left as the only ‘renter’ playing in an NFL stadium.
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The entire school needs purged.
Gallagher – Go get a real job
Heather – Go back to Wooster and do compliance.
Stallings – Sell a Bissel Door to Door.
Narduzzi. Win 10 games and recruit better and shut your mouth.
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Upitt, be carefull, everytime you down PITT personnel (which is always) some one leaves!
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I agree with your last three words. Just do it.
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Plans for an on-campus stadium have brought considerable pushback from some community members, like a group called the “Stadium Stompers,” who worry that the facility would bring parking issues, noise, trash and traffic, as well as contribute to rising home and rent prices and gentrification in the surrounding area.
Any type of progress is opposed by those wanting to keep the place a ghetto.
Temple at least has Leaders in Charge, unlike the jokes we have.
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If Temple can build an OCS in Philly with it’s higher cost of material, labor and property for $130 mil…..sure Pitt can too !
Plenty of room at the Top of the Campus, as many OCS studies have shown.
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Reed, no doubt about Tony D but I include Matt Cavanaugh. The tandem made Pitt explosive .. Tony was held in check by Duke and Cavanaugh scorched the Devils through the air.
If Cavanaugh doesn’t fracture his wrist in the opener maybe
Pitt is Champions in 1977. Danny Ford and Steve Fuller experienced Pitt- full throttled in the Gator Bowl.
I think we have a good one behind center going into this year. I am concerned about the guality of the center and the rest of the OL.
There will never be another TD. I love watching his highlights just to see that running style- all 155-165 lbs of it. Prettiest runner I ever watched at any level.
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Cavanaugh definitely made Pitt more potent but Pitt played with 3rd stringer Tom Yewcic for a few games after Haygood and Cavanaugh were injured. TD was unbelievable.
It’s hard to believe how contemporary 40 year old video of Dorsett looks today.
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Pitt won’t even entertain the idea of a feasibility study. Ask our leaders what will Pitt do when Heinz has outlived its life in 15 years. Well Pitt will do whatever the Steelers decide. That’s probably moving to the suburbs.
How much has Heather raised since she was hired? That’s the primary job of an AD since it’s a daily task. Without funds, Pitt should not pretend its serious about winning.
And fans shouldn’t be harassed into donating or criticized for not attending.
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Duzz tweeted a “PITT is It”
Any ideas ?
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Kid from Rutgers who is on his 3rd school. Miami then Rutgers. More guys that have zero committment and heart. Like that bum Tight end and Max Brown types.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about Mark.
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Every transfer is a bum he brought except Peterman.
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Then we are looking for a few bums to make some plays this year unless they’ve been recruited over.
The transfers were brought in because the previous staff did not recruit well at QB, TE and DL.
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That seems a little unfair. Holtz graduated in 2015. Orndoff graduated in 2016. Narduzzi had two classes to recruit a TE but failed to do so until 2017. Blair and Taleni were dismissed last year. Roy started. Folston spent the season on the two deep and played quite a bit. Narduzzi probably would have started Blair, Roy and Taleni last year.
Also, Hendrix hasn’t played any better than anybody that Chyrst recruited and Carter is now gone after one year.
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Mimes is not a transfer Mark if that is who you are talking about?
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He disapproves. Who saw that one coming?
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What say UCONN (who sometimes plays in Hartford) decides to expand its OCS. CT close to NYC market. ACC sees Temple with OCS and big Philly market. Who knows what goes through the minds of people wanting more $$$.
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Exactly frank. If Pitt became like mid 90’s again or under Dave Hart(one year the team scored 77 points total for the season) AND THE bball program is a cellar dwellar and draws flies. ACC could move on….without us.
You can be sure those schools like UCONN and Temple aren’t standing pat like Pitt.
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BigB, PITT had the half brother of a past All American at MSU in this weekend named Mimes. Would be a good pickup.
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The Philly fans are getting into the spirit of the championship game
http://www.nj.com/expo/ERRY-2018/01/766a22fba0/index.html
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Posvar robbed Peter (athletics) to pay Paul (the other building expansions and purchases). Frans 6:46am comment was how much per year. Your response at 7:11am was $35M. That’s why I called BS. Thanks for clarifying, but in the clarification indicated Posvar took money and expanded. Mismanagement of funds. Deferred maintenance budget on a stadium is less than $2M ~ $3M per year at best. With the big money of corporate box rentals, the on campus stadiums work.
I will also disagree about the only reason we won a national championship was because of TD. 1976, sure. Some of the early 80’s teams didn’t have TD and were a break or two away from undefeated. Probably shoulda won another.
Interest rates were sooo low for sooo long and we didn’t have a plan. Universities can basically do “shelf offerings” for construction now. Pitt Admin is clueless. Mismanagement for years. At least pulled off and let our offensive savant keep it within 30.
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Darn phone.
At least Duke pulled off and let our offensive savant keep it within 30. Lol.
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Interesting to note: Temple is going ahead with their plans for an OCS. Despite no big promise of large annual conference revenue like Pitt is promised.
Temple got booted from the BigEast in the ’90’s for football. If Pitt isn’t careful and does let it’s football program disintegrate(like previously) like it did it’s basketball program, there is no guarantee ( as far as I know) that the ACC couldn’t give Pitt the boot.
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If Philadelphia has a viable FCS option, the ACC would jump at that, like they did BC. And Pitt would be AAC or have to join WVcc in the Big 12. If the Big 12 would even want us, if we got booted.
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Or FBS option.
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Back with more info piggy backing on JoeL article. W/l record is regular season (12 games).
School……3yr w/l….%win…..OOC w/l…..%…..Bowls
Wisc……….31-5…….86%……….9-1…….90%……..3
Ok. State…28-8……78%………..8-1…….88%……..3
L’ville………24-12…..67%……….8-4…….67%……..3
Iowa……….27-9…….75%……….9-1…….90%………3
Miss. St…..21-15…..58%………10-2……83%…….3
Va. Tech…24-12……67%……….9-3……75%………3
Baylor…….16-20,,,,,,44%……….6-3…….67%……..2
Missouri….16-20……44%……….9-3…….75%……..1
AZ, State…18-18……50%………6-3……..75%……..2
Duke……….17-19…..47%……….9-3…….75%……..2
Nebraska…18-18…..50%……….6-4…….60%…….1
N’western…25-11…..69%……….7-3……70%………3
Arizona…….16-20…..44%………7-2…….78%………1
Ga. Tech…”16-19″….45%………7-4…….64%………1
N. Carolina..22-14…..61%………8-4…….67%……..2
N.C.State….21-15…..58%………9-3…….75%……..3
PITT…………21-15…..58%………7-5…….58%……..2
Arkansas…..18-18…..50%………9-3…….75%……..2
Maryland…..13-23…..36%………7-3…….70%……..1
Vanderbilt….15-21…..42%………8-4…….67%……..1
Kentucky…..19-17…..53%………9-3…….75%……..2
California…..17-19…..47%………8-1…….89%……..1
Totals…….443-348…..56%…..175-63…73.5%
3 yr avg. 20-16……56%
Comment: Ga. Tech “16-19” – One game cancelled 2017-UCF
Miss. St “3” bowls – Made ’16 bowl by APR 5-7 record
Nebraska “1” bowl – Made ’15 bowl by APR 5-7 record
PITT’s 3 year overall record is slightly above average bot OOC record sucks compared to average.
Some teams we think are good are good. Others we think are good maybe aren’t. But some teams have excuses (Baylor).
My next exercise is to look at OOC schedules vs. bowl eligibility for those teams who had 7-5, 6-6, or 5-7 yearly records over this time frame. A total of 31 of 66 (22 teams x 3 season) or 47%.
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Hey Pitt-cocks…..do you the info on Pitt’s non-con (OCC) record since moving into Ketchup Bottle ?
Off the top of my head I can remember many embarrassing losses.
USF – 1st year in D1
Bowling Green
Youngstown State
Akron
And near losses to scrubs like Furman, etc.
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Pitt-cocks Great info and thanks for doing the work.
Its just another data point that makes the case to softening the OOC.
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When i retire, I’d like to either be a water boy for a professional team or work the pilon cam.
That would free me up for Saturdays, where I can sit inside Heinz and say: Temple can build an OC stadium, yet we cannot.
Then in the winter, I can work the Pete, selling popcorn: probably 2 bags/hour, as there will only be 16 fans in the whole place.
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lol….2 bags an hour might be a stretch since those 16 fans would probably be related to Otis or Heather and would get comp’d corn.
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Temple has beat PSU once in their entire history. ACC going to drop Pitt for Temple because they have their own stadium. What are you smoking tonight?
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lol…it’s not beyond the realm. ACC chose BC and their 2nd rate facilities over Pitt. Just to get into Boston TV market.
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The ACC wont kick Pitt out for the sole reason that its blue bloods needs schools to beat up on in basketball.
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They could beat up on Temple too. And draw bigger TV numbers in Philly and Jersey than they get in da Burgh. Temple would play Duke, UNC and maybe ND in whereever the Sixers play now. (old Spectrum)
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They aren’t going to give up any TV market they have now. More likely to add schools where they are underrepresented, which begs DC/Balt, PHilly and NYC.
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But seriously, there are certain minimum criteria for continued membership. Pitt will do whatever it takes to obtain the min standards required and nothing more.
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Has anyone asked Heather the following questions:
Why does Pitt’s fan base have a poor record of traveling to bowl games and what can be done about it?
Why does Pitt have the lowest donation rate among ACC schools?
What does Pitt plan to do once Heinz Field has outlived its life? I know this one is partly hypothetical and no AD would dare to provide potential options unless that AD was on par with the Chancellor.
The answers to the first two questions are partly found in how one answers the third question.
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Heather isn’t asked too many questions. Other than…who do we give participation awards to, at halftime or in-between quarters of this weeks game.
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TX_, c’mon buddy. Without knowing the answer, I’m sure the first two questions have crossed Lyke’s desk and I’m hearing she is on it the best she can be considering her short period of time at PITT. The unwarranted abuse toward certain people who have only been at PITT for such a short period of time is at best, short-minded.
imo, Narduzzi is just now arriving at the warranted time of abuse, which I’m sure there is a waiting line.. We are certainly all entitled to our own opinions and many are plenty right yet sometimes what we don’t know, makes us all ignorant of the facts.
Concerning this coming season for the PITT football team and how well they will do? I do like the prospects but yet again, youth will be the telling fact…. and won’t that be a good thing for once? … ike
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Our AD and coaches are being paid good money for results. Now what Pitt considers results are vastly different than my definition but I digress.
We need to hold leaders accountable. Results cannot come fast enough. Pitt is hemorrhaging. The ACC money is just morphine. How do we stop the bleeding?
Right now I see band-aids.
We still have facility issues (see track)
We still have coaching issues (see basketball)
We still have attendance issues
We still have a fundraising issue
We still have a cultural issue
The first year really defines most leaders.
How is Pitt defined today?
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I don’t think she will hear you. Stallings and this cluster of a hoops season is taking up all of her time thinking. And if she is at every game mingling with fans, and hopefully not the big money fans, she deserves praise. Gallagher might try to do that (sorry totally unimpressed..seems like the guys is a slacker)
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Pitt-Cocks supplied us with this information .. “PITT’s 3 year overall record is slightly above average but OOC record sucks compared to average.
+++++++++++++++++++++
Answer is…… PITT plays a better OOC schedule then their conference has to offer and other teams of the same caliber plays.
Final records are all relative to their schedule and not just a matter of playing who is on their schedule, which is redundant in the first place but what of type caliber team is schedule by the AD department.
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So in other words, the AD dept is sabotaging Pitt football.
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Like the AD dept killed Pitt basketball. All self inflicted. We have met the enemy,,,,,and it is…..us
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Not in other words Emel one word steve!!!!
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oh u mean …Cornhole. Gotcha 😉
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Temple can build an OC because they have an OC
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Or, ask Heather:
Football – losing record.
Men’s hoops: dumpster fire.
Women’s hoops: see above.
Wrestling: Terrible record.
Baseball: losing record.
Men’s hoops: supposedly $4M deficit due to drop in attendance.
So, what do you plan on doing to fix these issues?
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soccer team did great
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So hey Gasman, so just fire Heather is the answer? Can you look straight into your keyboard and honestly type in to me that Heather Lyke is the reason for all that you have mentioned? I know you’re smarter than that. iek
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Temple serious about this.
http://www.philly.com/philly/infographics/336278291.html
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Dead serious, this is from 3 days ago. I’m sure nobody at Pitt would like you to know.
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/01/18/temple-football-stadium-plans/#FDT4kUIBgyze67yS.99
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Off topic, but Stanford QB Keller Chryst is transferring. I wonder where he might go.
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Is that you Paulie ? How’s the cheese ?
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Ike,
I never said anything about firing Heather.
I want to know how she plans on correcting the listed deficiencies.
The records are irrefutable. Moreover, i am not blaming her for many of these issues. Still, as captain of the ship, she is responsible for righting the sinking boat.
Am i incorrect?
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Correct.
She must have answers and let the public know. Or maybe she doesnt.
What is the plan?
Who are we?
How did we get here?
Who do we want to be?
Where do we from here?
When will we start seeing results?
Why is it Groundhog day at Pitt?
Answers to basic and fundamental questions will tell us if she fully understands and grasps the situation.
And by the way there are no easy answers to my questions but there are answers.
Bottom line – I dont know how Heather will make Gallagher’s front porch nice without fundraising.
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I did jump ahead there Gasman so sorry about that.
imo the wresting program has already begun showing signs of improvement that can be directly attributed to Heather. A really good class coming in next year.
As you know, I feel the football team is on the right road. The rest of the programs may need time?
I also would love to know her answers to your questions as she tells them behind closed doors but she has been explicit in public with her ideas to generate more money through donations. I know I get Emails from her asking and thanking me for being a part of the future. Yes I know that’s all a part of the game but I’m willing to wait a few years to see what and how she does. I think that’s only fair.. ike
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We dont have years when millions are lost each year in revenue and potential revenue. No CEO of any company is ever given years to fix something. The Board always wants the quickest fix.
Remember her number 1 priority is not wins and losses. Its culture and fundraising.
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Guys, Heather’s name is not Dorothy, she just can’t click her heels and fix the mess created years before her time.. Again, this isn’t an excuse for her but just general reasoning. I have no idea if she’s the answer…. but keep wishing for change and we may get Gladys from “Whats the Matter U” next
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Heather is relying on mentors that benefit from keeping Pitt down, instead of helping her. She needs to realize this. It’s like the partners of a law firm. They don’t tell the new associates about how the sausage is made. They downplay firm ownership and starting your new firm because they don’t want competition.
Blaze your own trail.
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And that is precisely why i cant embrace her distributing these commercial-break awards when there are more pressing issues.
It was Nero, i believe, who fiddled while Rome burned.
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She is a number 4 compliance parrot when we need a #1 rainmaker.
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Any place I have ever worked a leader better bring change that is positive in 6-9 months or they are out.
Ike is right. Give her 5 years at Pitt bc there is no accountability and Pitt is where coaches and AD’s go to never be fired or held accountable.
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)1 never said anything about 5 years
)2 i’ll never know why the awards during commercials is an adult complaint, sounds petty to me.
)3 the AD is a middleman anyway you shake it. Especially the first year or so.
)4 heather hasn’t been given the chance yet.
)5 you guys think I was born yesterday and don’t I know a thing about management.
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Only a knee jerker would expect an AD to come into a brand new job and fire someone sight unseen unless given the orders prior. That kind of thinking is amateurish at best.
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It happened to Dixon by Barnes example A.
Sight unseen – She knew Stallings record last year and that he is a bum.
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Just watched a documentary on Joe Willie Namath. Never knew he was recruited by Maryland but his SATs were too low to qualify for admission. Bama to the rescue-SAT score was no big deal. Didn’t know that BS went on back in those days in the south.
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Ike,
Why do i complain about the damn participation awards?
Because the athletic department is a couch-fire: not one major sport has a winning record.
So why do I care that Bertha Dudash got an award for making the Dean’s list?
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Winning is secondary. Awards and facetime have more of a priority.
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Gasman, it’s not meant for you and surely not meant to bother you… it’s a complete non issue unless you have an agenda. Move on to real issues. The awards are not holding heather back from doing more important AD stuff.
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Something is. Maybe that she is not qualified.
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Pitt basketball is ranked below UNC, while that not be a surprise, in this case it’s UNC-Asheville.
Cudos to Otis & the BoTs
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi
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Again, Dixon was not fired. He left to coach basketball at TCU, the school he played for and graduated from for a large raise in pay.
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Everyone here knows Barnes pushed him out Ike. Jesus.
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Arguing with Ike is like arguing with Jell-O.
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gaad bless you Joe if you think this is arguing with me.. 🙂
Just expressing our thoughts was the impression I was under. This is your offering? That’s it?
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Ya, I really have no need to post and post and post……….
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If you want to win the amount paid to the coaches mean nothing, it matters how much you pay the players.
If things were really equal. The champion every year would come from California and Florida, not Alabama or Ohio.
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From FootbalScoops.com –
Maryland: Former LSU offensive coordinator Matt Canada is a strong candidate to become offensive coordinator at Maryland per multiple reports. (It was added) Canada would serve as play caller at Maryland.
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Interesting… Why wouldn’t the OC call the plays?
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Time for me to take a long break from the POV. I can always go down to the local diner and sit in on the daily coffee clutch a bunch of cranky old men constantly complaining about all things possible while scratching their balls, if I need to recall why I took my hiatus in the first place. SAD.
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I’m with you Dr Tom
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How do you want this Ike and Tom?
Do I ban anyone who disagrees with you on a regular basis.
You know what… Write articles that don’t engage both sides of a discussion then you’ll be happier.
If certain commenters bother you then skip over reading them…but you always respond, don’t you? Thus you prolong the crap you dislike.
Is the answer articles without comments…that takes me about three clicks to do.
If someone doesn’t want to be here that’s their decision… Not mine or yours for other people.
But unless a negative comment is directed to you specifically then don’t let it bother you.
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But unless a negative comment is directed to you specifically then don’t let it bother you.
I totally agree!
I know, banned.
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The way I see it(I know, I know, no one cares), we have a bunch of guys and one woman who tell it like THEY see it.
Some offer thoughtful criticism and stop there, some offer thoughtful criticism and then offer suggestions as solutions, some criticism and justification for it being what it is, some positive most of the time despite it being what it is, some positive because that’s how they roll(live), and some just throw garbage. I am sure I have missed a few categories if you don’t think one of the above quite fits you.
Frustration? Yes, if you care and of course triggered by reading posts from those whose views are opposed AND DON”T EVER appear to see the other side.
Me? I’d kinda’ like to see it all. Would like to hang out/party with Upitt….until I wanted to hit him over the head with a 9-iron, though I’d never get there because I am a fun rather than a fighting drunk(now in my older years). Give me a little EE, Huff, BigB, Ike, PittEng, Barvo, Emel, wwb, Dr. Tom, etc., etc., and of course Annie.
Friggin’ enjoy more, everyone.
Now, more importantly, anyone need a little wrestling video? My kid avenged his only loss of the season this past weekend. 🙂
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