Here we sit at 4-5 with a nice ‘short’ bye week until we face the North Carolina Tarheels up in Heinz Field next Thursday.  Let’s get together and talk some Pitt football to bridge us over until next Thursday…

We’ll have our Roundtable again this evening… here is the Call-In info:

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87 thoughts on “Wednesday Evening Roundtable & Call-In; 11/1/17

  1. Reed,
    Tied into the World Series game tonight as a Houstonian. Look forward to watching the Round Table in the morning and participating on next weeks Table!

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  2. Reed, in the playoff rankings, 2 undefeated Power 5 teams are behind 6 teams with one loss. Why would that happen? You just have to line up and beat the teams you face, right?

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    1. Yes, because here on November 1 with at least 3 more games to play three of those 6 1 loss teams have lost to some other team in the Top 8. In addition, Clemson lost to Syracuse, TCU lost to Iowa State and Oklahoma lost to Iowa State.

      Alabama hasn’t yet played any of the Top 25 but is ranked #2. What was the point again? That 2 loss Iowa State should be in the Top 5 for having beaten 2 of the Top 10?

      There remains a human element to the CFP rankings with a 13 person selection committee. That means subjectivity just like the AP or Coaches Polls. Hopefully no carelessness though!

      Since this post seems to be a surprisingly passive aggressive tack about SoS, perhaps ponder this:
      http://www.espn.com/college-football/statistics/teamratings

      Here is Pitt’s detail at #59:
      http://www.espn.com/college-football/team/fpi?id=221&year=2017

      Read the Glossary at the bottom and then ponder some more.

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      1. who in the heck said that Pitt was an average Top 25 team? Just another contrived stat made up by an ESPN nerd who has nothing better to do with himself

        So you and Reed are telling me that UVa is better than Pitt because they are 5-3 ad Pitt is 4-5?

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  3. Now our coach is begging for donations. Isnt that Heathers job?

    If Pitt shows a serious commitment to sports, then maybe donations will come. But even then, you have 35 years of history working against you and a very poisoned sports culture.`

    No alum or fan thinks of rainbows and unicorns when it comes to Pitt sports. I think of tornadoes and toads.

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  4. and Iowa State has 2 losses while OSU and OK have 1 …. and one of those losses were to Texas who Oklahoma beat. You can go on and on … and I agree Iowa St may be underrated.

    I see on the first link that Wisconsin has a a higher REMSOS (whatever that is) than Pitt’s ….. and anyone who thinks Wisconsin’s schedule is harder than Pitt’s is a FREAKIN MORON. AND THIS IS INDISPUTABLE

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      1. Reed: You and I are almost always on the same page. But how anyone can say at this juncture that Paul Chryst is a better coach than Pat Narduzzi, I just don’t understand. Narduzzi didn’t lose to Akron, or Youngstown State. Chryst didn’t beat Penn State or Clemson. Chryst never won 8 games here. Narduzzi did it twice in his first two seasons. And the SOLE reason that there is currently no senior leadership is attributable to Chryst’s failure to recruit. The jury may still be out on Narduzzi, but nothing that Paul Chryst did while here led me to believe that he was a great coach. And he inherited a program light years ahead of us when he took over at Wisky, so his W-L record there is irrelevant to me.

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  5. To paraphrase Sally Field “He loves you, he really loves you” Reed is holding out for Josh Conklin to donate his millions.
    Heather already sent something out.
    We are 4-5 period. Of course compared to Michigan we did well versus the Peds.
    Gotta get a camera and mic this weekend though I warn I have a face and voice made for telegraph. 🙂

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  6. Hey Doc, the time for the roundtable is 9:00 PM est.

    Hate to sound like a cry baby but still feeling under the weather and won’t be partaking tonight. Although I may lurk if still awake.

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  7. https://t.co/BxCjKD72gL

    good article by dokish. but success depends on coaching these 3 stars up and placing them in the right positions to succeed or to best reach their potential. I just dont see Pitt’s staff being good at knowing what scheme they want to run, when to run and who to run it with.

    more 4 stars cant hurt
    but yes there is often little difference between these 3 and 4 stars
    its about knowing how to develop players and how to best use them

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  8. So….is it just me, or does the timing of the Dokish Recruiting article on the heels of Reed’s Recruiting article seem a little funny.

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    1. No – a lot of the pieces written follow up on our stuff here – but just as I’ll write articles in response to things others have written.

      But at the same time a lot of conversations between Pitt fans and media have been about our lack of 4* recruiting.

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  9. That is a good article – but really says nothing in the long run. He discusses national recruits and where they went – but Pitt isn’t a national recruiting program – we need to get the WPA and tri-state kids and make the best of them. We are not doing that – I can’t see an way to argue against that fact.

    In his list of “accomplished” players Pitt had only two. In his “contributed” list we had one with Shell doing his work at WVU.

    That’s it folks – three players out of the 28 that he wrote all those words about – and that is the gist of the matter. Pitt isn’t getting the highly rated kids who turn out to be successful contributors. Again – a percentage of any star ranking will fail and a percentage will succeed. Let’s say 50% fail – we’ll I;d rather the 50% who succeed be 4* kids rather than 3* kids.

    Talent and coaching are two parts of the equation – but look at the perennial top 20 teams and you see rosters with a lot of 4* and 5* kids – that is no coincidence.

    Yes, some programs are constantly successful with average 3* players but their coaching staffs are usually the best in the business. And especially if you are playing these kids early in their careers then that 4* talent helps them play well right away.

    The bottom line for Pat Narduzzi is that he was successful with the majority of another coach’s players and it is yet to be seen if he can replicate that success with his own. Sorry – but until he does that I’ll stick with my belief that the more highly talented kids you have on roster the better off you are.

    Parse this recruiting problem any way you want – if you think Narduzzi has done a good job landing local talent then have at it.

    I do not.

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    1. Pitt had 3 accomplished – Biz, Johnson and Boyd

      2 contributors – Bookser and Shell

      Total of 5, but who’s counting. Both 5 and 3 are small #’s in this sampling of recruits.

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    2. “That is a good article – but really says nothing in the long run.” – Reed 8:45pm Nov. 1

      I see it a little different – hear me out –

      What this article says to me is that if Pitt’s recruiting is on par with TCU, Wisconsin and VT, it comes down to coaching. These three programs are 10 win a season teams with similar ranked recruits. Their systems, schemes and admin support work well with their players to generate wins.

      TCU had a down year last season and bounced right back to the top this year. Pitt’s head coach and staff is in it’s third year. These other HC’s have longer tenures, more established systems, schemes and admin support.

      Many on here say Duzz needs five years to make it work. I’m willing to wait & be patient since progress has been shown in the 2nd half of this season. More to come or patience disappear. Next year cannot be excuse laced, even with a so called tough schedule. The in game coaching mistakes have to diminish. There is no reason we should not have walked out of the dome with a win vs cuse. That game lacked a legitimate QB usage strategy, if there was a pre-game QB strategy at all.

      My expectations were solidified by the Dokish recruiting article. Proof that 10 win seasons can be done consistently with the right coach.

      I expect 10 wins in a season by the end of Duzz’s 5th year. JoeKnew says 7 wins will be hard to get to in 2018. That may be true looking at the schedule, but if I’m the Pitt AD and Chancellor, I’m setting the expectations high and making them public with Duzz’s buy-in. Set the course, develop the plan to succeed and go execute.

      By making the plan public, you may excite the fan base. Executing that plan most definitely should excite the fan base.

      HTP!

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      1. While eating breakfast I looked up the three comparing teams non-conference schedule for 2017 –

        Wisconsin – Utah State, Florida Atlantic and BYU

        Moose had to play zero P5 teams with the non-conference schedule.

        TCU – Jackson State, Arkansas and SMU

        VT – wvcc, Delaware, East Carolina and Old Dominion

        NOTE: that equals (2) P5 teams between the three schedules or 20% of the non-conference game totals.

        Pitt – YSU, psu, OK ST and Rice

        50% of our non-conference games are P5 – not an excuse for losing, just the facts.

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  10. Considering Narduzzi, lets go back to his MSU days. When he first went there he didn’t do so well with other coaches players. Fairly average to below average record his first few years there.

    He went on to coach up a defense that was one of the best in the country for a few years with………… mostly with his 3* players……

    A need to know, Narduzzi also recruited two very key and good players from the WPIAL in Monte Nicholson and the Cox kid from Jeannette. I don’t want to hear Pat can’t recruit the good to better players from this area when he did while coaching hundreds of miles away.

    It’s not all Narduzzi, it’s more simply………… PITT. . .. . . …ike

    H2P!

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  11. Dear lord, are we still obsessing over Paul flipping Chryst?!?!? If “his” players were so damn good the last two years then why did he lose to Akron when he had them Reed????

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  12. The problem is simple, show a 5* recruit a pic of 110,000 fans at Ohio Stadium or Beaver Stadium then show a pic from last years Duke game at Heinz. We have seen the enemy and it is our fans.

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  13. Agreed. The enemy is our fans.. particularly the ones who accept mediocrity, makes excuses for recruiting failures and refuse to demand more.

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  14. Post Gazette’s Joe Starkey celebrating Penn State Football while taking the “sledgehammer” to Narduzzi and the Pitt Program.

    Say ALL you want about Starkey and his bias toward Mt. Nittany and you would be RIGHT! Personally, don’t see Starkey as the “Brightest Bulb” either in his columns or on the air.

    However, his point about Narduzzi and the State of PItt Football is right.

    Ask yourself. “Is there an ENERGY surrounding Pitt Football?” To answer “Yes” is just fooling yourself.

    Starkey makes the point that there is still hope and Narduzzi “deserves more time before a fair verdict can be rendered.”

    Maybe so. However, the point that Narduzzi MUST get a grip on Cheap Tweets versus BIG WINS is valid.;; even from someone as snarky as Starkey.

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  15. Unless Pitt gets some energy from the Beaver Valley power plants, it has none.

    If Pitt played a decent home schedule, if Pitt won more games, if Pitt ran an exciting offense, if Pitt played on campus, if Pitt had rabid fans, if Pitt was the only game in town, if Pitt was in the title race, if Pitt had a sports culture, if Pitt had competent administrators, if Pitt promoted the program, if Pitt had support from the BoT….

    All these ifs.

    If would take all these ifs and more to come true for Pitt to be fully charged and energized.

    Pitt’s battery has been slowly drained over the past 35 years.

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    1. If “Ifs” & “Buts” were candy & nuts then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
      Always gone be haters, always gone be debaters, been there, still here, oh dear, no fear.
      Hail to Pitt! Beat the tar out of the Heels!

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  16. Do any of you ever get the feeling that maybe we are seeing the collapse of our 2 major sports that we cannot overcome……we seem to be between the proverbial rock and a hard spot.

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  17. Starkey is from the RoN Cook / Tim Benz school of journalism. When you are not talented enough to write something creative, you go to the lowest common denominator to have your article read.

    All Narduzzi wrote was Hail to Pitt … there was nothing negative about PSU. My definition of ‘snarky’ obviously differs with Starkey.

    As far as Chryst being a better coach than Narduzzi ….
    In Chryst’s 3rd year, he lost to Akron at home by 11 points … in the fifth game of the year (not the opener.) That Zip team finished with 5 wins and 3-5 in the MAC.

    In Chryst’s 3rd year, he faced only one team that finished ranked ….. ONE. And that team scored 56 points while gaining 612 yards.

    Chryst is a pretty good coach .. no doubt. But I implore anyone to look at the Wisconsin coaches since Alvarez resigned …. all 3 of them (Bielema, Anderson and Chryst) have done much better at Wisconsin that before and/or after. It’s a combination of a great FB program playing in an extremely weak division … that seems to be getting weaker.

    Just remember this …. Wisconsin won its division in 2014 and lost in the B10 title game 59-0.

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  18. Its a shame Pitt vs Carolina is on a Thursday night…I think it was on a Thursday evening a couple of years ago and we came into it with a record of 4-1 or 5-1…that game was poorly attended as was the home game against Duke after we beat Clemson…can’t imagine how poorly attended next Thursday’s game will be but we are putting 6 butts in seats and my Carolina pals are acclimatized to poorly attended games in Chapel Hill..so it won’t be embarrassing.

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  19. First off I was saying the Paul Chryst is a better head coach right now then Pat Narduzzi is.

    But if you want to compare the two the much-maligned Paul Chyst was 19 and 19 during his time at Pitt in his three years. Right now Pat narduzzi stands at 20 and 15 and may get two more losses so maybe 21-17… it’s not a whole lot of folks.

    But the main thing is I was talking about the last few years if you look at what Paul Chryst has done up in Wisconsin as opposed to what Pat Narduzzi has done here at Pitt I don’t think there’s any doubt which head coach has been more effective for the team in the program they’re running.

    I’ll take 29-6 in the Big Ten over 20-15 in the ACC any day.

    I don’t think Pat Narduzzi is a bad coach at all but you have to look at won-loss records when you are comparing head coaches and Chryst is doing pretty darn well up in Wisconsin.

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    1. But you keep making comparisons you shouldn’t be making …. just like implying all schedules are the same. Wisconsin has many more students and alumni, a large fanbase, doesn’t deal directly with an NFL team, plays in a weak division, and above all, has a stable program in place which maintains ts style of play. There is stability here …. and it not the coach (although PC will of course provide that also)

      Pitt has none of the above.

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    2. While eating breakfast this morning I looked up the Wisky non-conference schedule for 2017 –

      Wisconsin – Utah State, Florida Atlantic and BYU

      Moose had to play zero P5 teams with the non-conference schedule.

      Pitt – YSU, psu, OK ST and Rice

      50% of our non-conference games are P5 – not an excuse for losing, just the facts.

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  20. I don’t think that is a fair comparison given the superior support Chryst receives at Wisconsin and the weaker schedule he plays on a yearly basis. You may counter that Chryst inherited a weaker team than Narduzzi at Pitt but I believe the strength of schedule that Chryst faced was easier than what Narduzzi has faced, and I don’t believe Narduzzi has lost to a Lower tier school like Akron or YSU. Iñ my memory his worst defeats are the 2 Bowl losses.

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  21. The key with 3 stars is that they need to be well scouted and fit into the exact mold a team is looking for. PSU just signed a 3 star QB who fits their mold and should be a good fit for them. Three stars must also have a really good work ethic. The top schools select from a broad list of three stars, and don’t fall into the 4-5 star trap that many middle tier schools do, who would take any 5 star on reputation alone just to get some buzz going, even if they have grade or legal issues. We know who some of these players are. Many of the 3 stars were also late bloomers who may have come to football later in high school. Track stars come to mind. So a good college football staff can coach these guys up to make significant contributions in their later college careers.

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  22. wwb… your and others OBSESSION with Chryst…. LET IT GO!

    Of course Chryst is a BETTER Coach than Narduzzi. An abundance of EVIDENCE suggests it’s foolish to say otherwise.

    Sure Chryst had his challenges as a Game-Day Coach. I was quick to point it out at the time. The loss at Heinz against Duke is just one example that comes to mind.

    But don’t confuse what Narduzzi walked into with Chryst had to deal with. When Chryst came to Pitt, he basically had NOTHING! But he didn’t complain. He and his Staff just went to work, pulling Pitt from the ashes of the SCORCHED Earth left in the wake of the Todd Graham era.

    He did it by recruiting SOLID Players disguised as “2 Stars,” many of whom Narduzzi has RELIED on, even to this point.

    Obsessing with criticism of Chryst just belies INSECURITY… certainly in the TRUE and UNFORTUNATE state of Pitt Football today.

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    1. and you don’t have an obsession with Narduzzi? You let it go. If you are a Pitt fan, then you support the current coach, instead of taking every shot at him you can .. much of it contrived.

      As far as disguised 2 stars … you’re right, Caprara, Webb, Briggs, Mitchell, etc were more like 1.5 stars

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  23. I can pretty much guarantee that if Duzz was the head coach at Wisconsin and we still had Paul Chryst Wisconsin would be undefeated and Pitt would be at best 4-5. It’s about the atmosphere and support, Barry Alvarez and sold out Camp Randall Stadium vs Pederson/Barnes/Lyke and 28,000 yellow seats AFTER beating the #1 team in the nation. It’s no contest. Until Pitt invests the right time, money, and energy into football and our so called fans actually attend games this discussion continue forever just like a new stadium, old colors, etc.

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  24. I don’t think it makes any difference who is a better coach.

    Chryst is gone and Narduzzi is our coach.

    I think the Starkey article is fair, remember he has as many PSU fans reading him as Pitt Fans.

    Pitt is going in the wrong direction this year, hopefully only this year.

    If Narduzzi somehow gets two more wins most should be very happy.

    This was going to be a down year. Only the rose colored glasses folks thought any differently.

    Narduzzi is doing OK. If he wants to do great, he has to get more of the local elite players to stay at home.

    I am not necessarily talking 3 vs 4 stars, but too many of the top ten WPIAL guys are leaving for greener pastures.

    I know all of the excuses, but there were many more of them when Jackie got Tony D to come to Pitt.

    Narduzzi must overcome the reasons not to come, if he wants to succeed get Pitt to the next level.

    His recruiting needs to get better every year.

    I don’t care what is happening at PSU, WVU, Wisconsin etc. The only thing that matters is getting enough quality players to compete with Miami, VTech, FLST, Clemson, Louisville and ND and any other ACC team that wants to join that group.

    BigB’s fears are not unwarranted, If Narduzzi can’t get it done then who + 4 or 5 more years of excuses.

    Basketball is already in that process, and there are no WPIAL kids to turn that around.

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  25. Starkey’s article is typical nitter garbage. PITT has played psu twice and won of of those games all the while being a heavy underdog in both.

    Oh and he fails to mention how Franklin and psu blew a lead in Columbus.

    Franklin has been at psu a few years longer than Pat and took over a much better program

    OK, this was a down year for PITT but it was somewhat to be expected with all the attrition that happened then the suspensions.

    psu will be losing Morehead and possibly a few other coaches. Let’s see how “one finger” does when he loses coordinators left and right…….. ike

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    1. I hate to defend Franklin and PSU, but get real, their recruiting is light years ahead of ours, their fanbase is at least three times as big and their budget is double. Franklin also came in when the penalties were still in effect.

      I understand the hatred, but don’t let it affect your touch with reality. Unfortunately they will be going to Rose Bowls while we are still going to toilet bowls, except for this year.

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  26. Paul Chryst LOST to AKRON and YSU AT HOME!!! PittofDreams if Duzz loses to VaTech or Miami you will send another lovely anti-Duzz post but where were you after that Akron loss????
    Chryst was a nice guy with zero energy and would have NEVER (see I can put words in all caps too) beat Penn State or Clemson in a million years because he would have played your darling Chad Voytik for four years and Peterman would never have stepped foot on campus.
    My memories of PC are the dumbfounded look on his face when YSU, Akron, Cincinnati, GT, Duke, etc scored at will and pushed us all over the field on BOTH sides of the ball.
    He is a puppet at Wisconsin which is the perfect job for him, Alvarez does all the promoting and his assistant coaches do all the recruiting and he just calls running plays for 11 weeks a year.

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  27. I think Chryst and Narduzzi as HCs are equivalent mirror images, yin and yang. Chryst laid back, Narduzzi fiery. Narduzzi emphasizing defense, Chryst the offense, but I believe put in a neutral same setting would yield very simliar results. But as POD and gc mentioned above, Chryst is gone and Narduzzi is here. If he can somehow steer Pitt to a 6–6 record I would lock him in to an extension immediately . We lost our last 2 HCs when Pitt was 6-6.

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    1. if somehow Pitt reaches 6 wins (which I doubt) .. then when comparing coaches in their 3rd year at Pitt, Narduzzi is unquestionably better since that 2014 schedule was such a pathetic joke.

      It remains to be seen in the long run … but I consider both coaches to be of fine quality

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    1. You are giving Wisky too much credit. They have played nobody. Much like last year when they lost 59-0 in the B10 championship game, they are grossly overrated. I could care less about Paul Chryst and Wisconsin. And I have appreciation for the mess that he took over at Pitt. But if he were still here, we would be worse off than we currently are, and would likely not have beaten PSU or Clemson last year. Remember that this year’s senior class are his recruits. From which we are getting virtually zero contribution.

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  28. Does anyone here honestly believe we would be in a better situation now, had beaten Penn State, beaten Clemson, and snag more talent while filling up Heinz with Paul Chryst?? If so please explain because the only coaches non Pitt people I talk to know of when asked about our program are Majors, Wanny, and Duzz

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  29. Chryst would not win at Pitt.

    He could not recruit – the school name of Wisconsin does most of the recruiting for Moose. I’ll bet Barry is the closer, not always Moose.

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  30. 8-5 record the past 2 years…should have been 9-4 in at least 1 of those years…wins over Clemson and PSU,..sure, this year is basically a rebuilding year…would be very happy with 6-6 record this year and a bowl game to give the young players some extra practice time. PN deserves at least 2-3 more years.

    By the way, FWIW, Pitt basketball is rated umber 212 out of 300 and some ….will most likely be a down year, but looking forward to some fresh faces on the b’ball team. H2P!!!!

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  31. FYI… just a handful of Pitt Players recruited by Chryst without the help of EITHER Wisconsin or Barry Alvarez…

    Boyd… Johnson… Conner… Whitehead… and oh, ya… Hornibrook… who would have been Pitt’s Quarterback today had Chryst never left.

    Keepin’ it real.

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    1. Boyd and Johnson were PSU bound before the sanctions. In fact, Johnson went for his first visit at PSU and verballed before he went home (and that was after fellow Belle-Vernonian Joe Rudolph was on his tail for months.)

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  32. Sorry, if you think Starkey is wrong, you have lost touch with reality.

    Did you see our stadium last week? Have you not followed their recruiting vs ours?

    While I still think Narduzzi’s trajectory is up ( maybe wishful thinking) he has a long way to go,

    The Chryst vs Narduzzi stuff is totally irrelevant to whether Pitt is ever relevant again.

    Like

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