The Three Star Offer Myth, and Why Do We Believe It?

Can we just drop the pretense that all of a sudden we are getting great 3* recruits who have fantastically better offers than those young men whom Paul Chryst, Todd Graham and Dave Wannstedt recruited?  It isn’t true.  Yes, some of those past 3* kids had more minor offers but we have seen that in the last two years also.

That said, I do like these recruits Narduzzi is bringing in – I just don’t think a roster with a large majority of these 3* players are going to make a huge difference in the future (regardless of where their offers come from)…  But we’ll how that comes out later as the games are played, right?

Here are some recruits listings I went through from Rivals.com which showed the Power 5 schools (and BE schools in the earlier years) from the players’ offer sheets.  These individually listed recruits are from 2012 and 2013… with the 2014 Chryst recruits at the end of the article.  I got tired of cutting and pasting by then.

Remember, the below names are only the 2* and 3* recruits who had these ‘Power Five school offers.  if there were less than two of those  offers I didn’t list them (but almost every player had one or two besides Pitt).

It isn’t any coincidence that Wannstedt started winning more games when his recruiting in 2006 and onward started being populated by more 4* and 5* players… even in the lesser quality BE conference. 

Here is what our yearly 4* and 5* totals were over the last 12 years and please note that this is not intended as a comparison between coaches but to show that at the level of recruiting Pitt has historically accomplished we have been averaging 7.2 wins (over the last 11 seasons) with those rosters.

Now we are up to eight wins and fans feel that is fine, but the goal isn’t to remain stagnant but to get to conference championship games, win them and then get to the playoffs.  Here they are:

’06 – seven 4* recruits

’07 – six 4*

’08 – one 5* and  five 4*

’09 – four 4*

’10 – four 4*

’11 – two 4*

’12 – four 4*

’13 –  one 5* and two 4*

’14 – four 4*

15 – two 4*

’16 – five 4*

’17 – five 4*

See what I mean? If we are pulling in this low number of blue chip recruits we are going to see pretty much the same thing we have seen in the past and that is up and down non-championship ball.

Also – take even these offers listed below with a grain of salt as we have discussed ‘offers’ are a lot of time not formal offers but more like conversations.  Just like we should take the ones last year and this year, but for comparison’s sake I listed all that Rivals.com had them down.

3* Bam Bradley

Pittsburgh
Arizona
Cincinnati
Michigan State
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Stanford
Syracuse
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
West Virginia

 3* Chris Davis

Arkansas
Baylor
Boise State
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kent State
Minnesota
Oregon State
Purdue
Southern Methodist
Toledo
UCLA
Vanderbilt
West Virginia

3* Holtz

Pittsburgh
Arkansas
Boston College
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia
West Virginia

3* D. Davis

Pittsburgh
Arkansas
Baylor
Boston College
Cincinnati
Colorado
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kent State
Minnesota
Oregon
Oregon State
Purdue
Southern Methodist
Toledo
UCLA
Vanderbilt
West Virginia

 

N/A

3* Bradley

Arizona
Cincinnati
Michigan State
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Stanford
Syracuse
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
West Virginia

3* Render

Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Louisville
Syracuse
West Virginia

3* R. Lewis

Colorado
Utah

3* J. Jones-Smith

Arizona
Michigan
North Carolina State
Temple
UCF
Vanderbilt
Villanova
Virginia
Wisconsin

3* A. Officer

Pittsburgh
Boston College
Purdue
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia

3* Terrell Jackson

Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Duke
Illinois
Iowa
Michigan State

3* S. Soto

Pittsburgh
Boston College
Maryland
Temple
Virginia

3* J. Moody

School
Pittsburgh
Purdue
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
UCF
Virginia Tech

3* Orndoff

Pittsburgh
Boston College
Michigan
Michigan State
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin

3* Ibrahim

Pittsburgh
Boston College
Duke
Iowa

2* Reg Green

Boston College
Michigan State
North Carolina State
Rutgers
Temple

And then here are the guys Chryst recruited before Narduzzi was hired and stuck with Pitt – all three star recruits and you can look at their offers on Rivals also… Many “Power 5” schools among them.

Name Pos Rating
Connor Hayes OL 5.6
Jalen Williams DB 5.5
Patrick Amara ATH 5.5
Adam Bertke QB 5.5
Dennis Briggs ATH 5.3
Mike Grimm OL 5.8
Avonte Maddox ATH 5.5
Connor Dintino DT 5.6
Mike Herndon DT 5.6
Shane Roy DE 5.5
Quintin Wirginis LB 5.3
Brian O’Neill TE 5.5
Elijah Zeise WR 5.6
Phillipie Motley DB 5.5
Rori Blair DE 5.3
Qadree Ollison RB 5.5
Jaquaun Davidson ATH 5.5
Chris James RB 5.8
James Folston Jr. LB 5.5
Alex Bookser OL 5.8

We Pitt fans’ attitudes toward this recruiting subject is frustrating to me. 

I applaud Narduzzi for getting coach Charlie Partridge back on staff to bolster local recruiting, but we fans split hairs like crazy when it comes down to justifying rather poor recruiting (compared to programs which have historically better records and rankings than we do) on Narduzzi’s part.

He has to somehow pull out all stops to get more 4* and 5* kids on the roster and then, perhaps more importantly, keep them on the roster and playing ball for us.  It isn’t a personal criticism really at this point – compared to past Pitt HCs he’s pretty much in line… but then again we were getting non-championship football out of them also.

I think he can do it; I hope so,  but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that 3* kids with offers from Power Five schools are going to get us championships – it hasn’t in the past and won’t now or in the future.

 

 

179 thoughts on “The Three Star Offer Myth, and Why Do We Believe It?

  1. Your last paragraph in this article frustrates me. “He has to somehow pull out all stops to get more 4* and 5* kids on the roster” Just what stops do you think he’s leaving out? I would sure hope he’s been using all his stops all along.

    This was pointed out by many but usually, not always, PITT has to wait for some of the bigger recruits to figure and sort things out later towards the end of the year beginning of next year.

    It’s just basic fact of everything PITT when it comes to PITT football. The University is just NOT as committed as some other more successful schools are when it comes to football. I’m not saying they do not have a desire to field a winning team though. While some are positive that PITT doesn’t care one bit. < These are the negative fans….. See what I did there?

    anyways, it’s way too early this year to get all lathered up over recruiting. It is fun to discuss and mainly disagree about though… ike

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    1. “Just not as committed”. I’ve been around since De Pasqua. I’ve seen Jackie Sherrill ushered out ahead of NCAA sanctions. The school up the road just had it’s former President and Athletic Director offered 3 hots and a cot. As an Ohio State alumnus famously said to me “if you’re not cheating, you’re not winning”. You will walk away from the stigma of cheating and call the administration dumb for getting caught. I won’t!

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      1. You misread between the lines. I am not condoning cheating. I consider Pat is pulling out all the stops without embarrassing himself and PITT. I think Reed will agree with that.

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        1. We have a very large alumni base and a city full of potential fans. I think Narduzzi needs to lean on the athletic administration to figure out a plan to get those butts in the seats. That will be a hell of a lot cheaper and quicker than building a “new Pitt Stadium” which appears to be a pipe dream. Of course winning must be a part of it, but they need to get creative. I mean we only get the stadium partially filled for a number of low profile games. Reach out to the Steelers fanbase with an offer. Hell let them bring the damn Terrible Towels and integrate that tradition. I mean its a Pittsburgh thing so its not really stealing 😉 Get UPMC employees deeper discounts if they market it more on their intraweb. There are ways, it just takes focus Daniel son.

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  2. Here is how Nard has to recruit (really the only option we have). We get 3 star guys with heart and coach and develop the hell out them. Reed posted an article sometime ago that shows there is a few perennial Top 25 programs that succeed with this same model (MSU and Wisconsin if I recall).

    Additionally, if the program isn’t willing to take guys with character issues (like Wanny was which ultimately got him fired) the number of 4 and 5 star guys is even more limited. Its kinda like the crazy hot matrix for women (the hotter they are the crazier they are).

    You can’t pull out all the stops if you want to run a 100% squeaky clean program.

    There is just as many NFL ALL-PROs that were 3 stars or less than ones that were 5 starts.

    And another thing (A few WPIAL and recruiting rules):

    If your name ends in a vowel or you play high school ball for a catholic school and ND offers you go to ND. (i.e. Pitt is a great fall back plan).

    If PSU or another equivalent football school offers and you have two parents that care you go to one of these schools unless your parents have ties to PITT or you want to stay home. This one makes me sick but I feel its pretty accurate and its especially true of the recruits from lower economic status.

    For the ones that don’t have much guidance or have ties to Pitt and happen to be a 4 or 5 star they stay home.

    I am Hopefully in NardDog’s and his staffs ability to develop and maximize talent.

    Hopeful but Realistic

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  3. I also would like to respond to the sentence Ike just quoted: “He has to somehow pull out all stops to get more 4* and 5* kids…….
    Well, Reed, you just put Duzz in a real dilemma because you have stated many many many times how Pitt football players ALL need to be model citizens and good students to play football at Pitt . In fact, you strongly believe this is more important than the playing of the game. I’m not saying that I have a problem with your views but let’s face it, just how many outstanding role model, good grade student, 4-5* recruits do you think are actually out there???? Allow me to answer – NOT MANY!!!!!!
    So, Duzz is not able to have his cake and eat it too. Just can’t happen. To summarize the situation in understandable words – “it is what it is”.

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  4. Reed, who in the heck is saying that the current 3-star recruits are better than the previous ones? In fact, the other day, I listed a number of 3-star recruits from as far back as Wat Harris that turned out to be really good players .. a handful even made the NFL.

    My point has been that this is the way Pitt has to do it since we are unable to recruit the blue chips like we wish we could.

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  5. Pitt has to wait to see what 4* and 5* recruits are left out of the big programs due to over recruiting, think Sibley Watts and Camp.

    A main sticking point to Pitt getting a top 30 class is the “powers that be” at Pitt behind the scenes influence. Remember DW was &(&^(canned because of off field issues with his recruits even tho he brought in higher rated players and had a 10 win season.

    After the top 15 schools fill-up with 4 and 5# recruits and the ones with character issues are removed from consideration, the competition is fierce for the remaining players deemed up to the standard.

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  6. Spot on analysis. Our recruiting has been good (not great) under Narduzzi. Our results have been good not great. One criticism I have of our recruiting approach is that we seem to get off to a slow start (relative to other schools) and we settle for lower rated recruits early in the process. The bottom line is that Narduzzi is trying hard to recruit higher rated kids….he’s just not winning enough of these battles. Until he does, our performance is likely to be good, not great.

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  7. Leaving out Fraudy, Narduzzi is certainly recruitng better than Chryst. He certainly is recruiting far more balanced that Wanny. QB alone is far superior. DB’s are far superior. In short Wanny recruiting was over rated and the roster Narduzzi is putting together will be deeper, more competitive and the game day process is better. Narduzzi has a tack record of taking talent and developing it. Pitt will have a better defense they have had since one year under Graham. They will have by far the fastest roster in years. Keep the faith.

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    1. Wannstedt didn’t have the benefit for most of his tenure to recruit offensive linemen and especially defensive backs from the state like it has been in recent memory. Where Dave really sucked at recruiting was at linebacker. Harris did a decent job there at the end with the unit and Wannstedt failed to keep it going.

      He still should have been the coach for four more seasons and retired after the tenth to bring in Narduzzi.

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      1. Wannstar “our nickname for him in school” privately stated that he would not have taken the job if he knew Petersen was coming back to Pitt. The only one who thought Petersen was a great AD was the former chancellor. So Dave had an AD who he couldn’t stand. Not a great business model.

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        1. I remember hearing Dave say that, but I don’t buy it. He loved being the coach at Pitt. Just like I don’t buy he was telling recruits not to go to Pitt after he was fired as Zeise reported five years later. Smiley and Nordenberg were far bigger issues than the Stache’s game day coaching.

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    2. Wanny was really good recruiting DL and RB … two positions he really believed him. His TE, WR and LB recruiting was good … but that’s about it.

      PC was really good at OL, TE and RB. It’s amazing that with his OC and QB background, how poor he was recruiting QBs.

      Narduzzi thus far has shown (on paper) much better balance than the above. If you look at his classes, he has recruited good potential on both sides of the ball. It remains to be seen just how good these commits will turn out

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  8. Uh it seemed like a lot of people were taking Reed to task for commenting on the lack of star power in Narduzzi’s recruiting and were choosing alternate facts that the kids in Narduzzi’s classes were receiving more P5 interest than MAC level interest (implying Chryst era). It was all over yesterday’s post that people were cool with the 3* guys because they were also receiving other P5 offers.

    Also, I don’t see how it is too early to look at Narduzzi’s recruiting by year 3. I recall people on The Blather dumping on Chryst’s recruiting by year 2. The last two classes are the clay for the next 3 seasons.

    I strongly suspect that Reed’s “error” is that he is failing to account for the enthusiasm that Narduzzi continues to imbue among the fan base. It has been a very long honeymoon indeed. The fans are more than willing to give Narduzzi more support than another coach with postseason failures and recruiting class shortcomings. I think of Jamie Dixon in this context, especially when I saw the John Morgan commit from DeMatha and had a James Robinson flashback.

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    1. It amazes me that pro football blurs everything in Pittsburgh. There are over a hundred Division 1A schools recruiting these kids. 20 some prospects get 5-star, double that get 4-star, So, that’s 60 some kids or 6 tenths of a player per school. YOU don’t get to draft recruits. It’s the process of developing these recruits which separates the good coaches. Alabama probably has more former head coaches on its staff than anyone else. And it shows. Brian Kelly is a very good recruiter and a poor coach. Franklin was gifted a sweet heart schedule last year and still lost three games. Don’t expect him to get one two years in a row. So luck plays as big a part in success as in any field. Two years ago, if the back judge (50-yards away) doesn’t throw a pass interference flag, Pitt beats UNC and wins the Coastal Division. Duzz is a keeper.

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  9. Wanny was a very good recruiter (I liked him alot) but what did we win in the BE?

    HCPN knows what he wants and knows what he can get – beat PSU and Clem. ACC much harder than BE.

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  10. I agree you need higher star recruits but it can be done without them.

    Think Kansas State, TCU, Boise State and others.

    As far as teams that don’t draw because of being in a pro town. USC and Miami have been successful. Although both cheated.

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  11. I don’t know so I’m asking but who has Narduzzi recruited on the Oliine? Chryst had studs. I don’t know one name Narduzzi brought in good on Oline but there may be a few. Anyone?

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    1. Think about it. Johnson, Bisnowaty, and O’Neil were starters when Duzz came in. All will take home an NFL paycheck.. Bench them for a freshman? Alex Bookser has been developed by Duzz. OL take two years to develop. Drake may be Duzz’ first recruit to start.

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  12. Reed – you also have to take into account position groups. There is no denying that Chryst got some good players. They tended to be reserved for specific position groups though. There was not much distribution of the wealth.

    Duzz is creating a much more balanced roster than Chyrst did. Plus, there are a lot more 5.3’s and 5.5’s with Chryst. Duzz is starting to turn the corner and getting more 5.8’s.

    I really don’t understand how you don’t see that recruiting has improved. The difference between a 5.3 and 5.5 is a couple hundred players. The same with 5.5 to 5.8. Someone ranked 300 vs 500 or 750 in the country is very significant. That’s why you have to dig deeper than just the star classification.

    Chryst got better OL recruits. Duzz is, generally, getting better everything else recruits.

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  13. Off the subject….Anyone else think that recently fired Ohio State coach Thad Maata would look good in front of Pitt Basketball bench? Heather has huge Ohio State connections.

    Right the ship Heather! Make a move!

    PS – would kill for some 3 Star BBall recruits!

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    1. I blame the former AD for the disaster in Pitt Basketball. Jamie didn’t leave, he was pushed out. Think 6-year contract that Barnes saddle us with. Too much money to can KS but we could make him a janitor. He’s good a sweeping out a basketball program. I hope Ryan gets his degree in December.

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  14. It’s too early to evaluate any recruiting class for 3 years but I was talking about this years class which is far from finished. There are a couple of really good ones waiting in the wings right now.

    No BS here but I can’t think of that many O-Line recruits that Chyrst brought to PITT if you leave out the WPIAL players. PC did not scour the entire country for his O-Line recruits.

    Point is, who knows if another PITT head coach not named Graham couldn’t have done the same thing. … and btw, it looks like Narduzzi is doing just that.

    About Narduzzi pulling out all the stops. I can’t see what he could possibly do other than what he’s done. The PITT football program was in shamble a few short years ago. It will be a slow but looks like steady progress. imo.

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  15. Get your recruit ranking up into the 20s and 30s and you can and will be successful. It doesn’t take top 20 classes.

    Michigan States record and AP year end rank 2011 to 2015:

    2011 11-3 ranked 11
    2012 7-6 NR
    2013 13-1 ranked 3
    2014 11-2 ranked 5
    2015 12-2 ranked 6

    247 recruiting rankings for the same 5 years:

    2011
    Michigan State – No. 32 (21 signees, no 5-stars)
    2012
    Michigan State – No. 33 (23 signees, no 5-stars)
    2013
    Michigan State – No. 35 (19 signees, no 5-stars)
    2014
    Michigan State – No. 25 (22 signees, one 5-star)
    2015
    Michigan State – No. 22 (21 signees, no 5-stars)

    I would take that 5 year span at Pitt.

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    1. good data but one caveat …. PSU and Mich have not been that good in that 5 year span. OSU was only the real intra-division team to worry about

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  16. Dan 72 – 100%, as long as he can coach. He’s had Kerr-like issues resulting from “routine” back surgery. I don’t think the same as Kerr but serious side affects that are outside the norm.

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  17. Narduzzi O-Line recruits have been steady not spectacular
    Morgan
    Ford
    Drake
    Warren should all start in a year or two.

    Chyrst did a great job with coaching the O-Line but aside from the WPIAL who did he bring in from outside the area?

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  18. I disagree that it’s not too early to gauge HCPN’s recruits. You can’t really gage them until at least another year.

    Likewise, 2 years after he left. HCPC has been lauded by many here for this past season’s offense (except for NP of course) …. but also criticized for this year’s defense

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  19. We’re right where we should be with Narduzzi’s O-line recruits. We shouldn’t know much about them because Chryst’s veterans should be the starters instead of younger players. Narduzzi moved O’Neill to the line under his watch, so that is promising.

    As for Thad Matta, he needs about two years to get his health back. His back is in terrible shape as is his right foot. I hope Stallings can get it done because I don’t want another coaching search in two years. Now how many of you laughed in regards to me having hope that Stallings wins? Go on, I can take it.

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    1. Clemson seems to be a model for what Pitt could possibly become but that means stepping up recruiting outside our region. i dont know how many good recruits are in South Carolina, in numbers it looks similar to PA. The ACC is really the perfect conference for Pitt as pretty much every school has the same issues/challenges Pitt does. Some just do a little better on gameday than Pitt and some much worse (Syracuse/ BC) For Pitt to step up recruiting probably means bigger assistant salaries.

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      1. Even less overall available talent then in PA. Talent levels comparable to WPIAL. Talent level impacted by grades,sat’s act’s & overall education levels. Players can be good but go the FCS route, juco’s & prep school routes. 7 fcs colleges in S. Carolina and all way better then Duquense, Robert Morris, St. Francis,etc.

        Clemson & the gamecocks recruit all the states around (Ga,NC,Fl,Va & even (So Car) eastern Pa.

        Good to be in the ACC. Yes recuiting needs to pick up. All of us want 4 & 5 ‘s but high 3 are an improvement from the low 3‘s under exHCPC.

        Welcome to the POV (or at least ou are posting more often than in the past). I see you are a big O’s fan.

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      2. Pitt pays 20% of what Clemson pays it’s coaches. We are lightyears behind them.Oh and they play on campus. If I’m Pitt I buy 5000 acres in Washington County and move the campus and build for the future.

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          1. 5000 acres could come cheap.

            25M for the land is nothing for Pitt. You can actually grow a campus and facilities and sell off the land and properties in Oakland for more than that. Keep it a Medical College there and move. It isn’t sustainable but that would take insight. Those goofs can’t even clean up the cesspool of South Oakland.

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        1. This comment in my mind does more harm than validate your credibility, unless you’re practicing your comedy stand-up routine on us all. Being profound should include common sense at the least. imo and half heartily joking.

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          1. Ike – I can care less your opinion. I have vision and use it in my business life to success. If you think Pitt doesn’t have an issue growing forward then you are one of the small town yinzer happy you are renting a stadium because there is no where to put it and it is 2017. What the heck do you think 2040 will look like?????????????? Modern History classes in East Liberty? You have to have vision to grow or you will be a 7 win team forever and a campus in a slum (South Oakland) Worry about your own credibility.I’m not joking one bit about moving the campus.

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          2. So PITT would be willing to move to Washington County to have a winning football program? Every word out of your mouth is that PITT is cheap and doesn’t care bout a winning football team.

            Name another instance when a respectable university up and relocated their entire campus 45 miles away? That’s cutting edge but stupid.

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  20. Good article. Exactly what I have stated many times. Pitt’s revenue hurts them, especially lack of revenue from ticket sales, concessions, merchandise, donations, etc. The alumni support is not there. You can’t pay a coach 4 million a year if there is no money to do so.

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  21. Reed, quick question. I always thought our comments were in order of the time in which they came in. However, on this post I was originally the 2nd comment (@ 10:17am) but now somehow I am the 4th comment with later comments from 12:06 pm and 12:13 pm somehow jumping in front of my 10:17am comment. I’m not bothered but I am curious. What’s the deal?
    Thanks!

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    1. Pittman4ever – your #2 & #3 comments were “Replies to Ike’s #1 comment. Replies always link to the comment they are replying (commenting) on no matter when they are posted.

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    2. No – I had to edit your post due to swearing. WordPress holds the post and emails it to me – that is why I said soon I’m going to just start deleting them. I just now approved it.

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  22. PITTman, those are reply’s that wedge themselves in there. Not a big fan because comments can get lost.. I prefer to quote the comment I would like to respond/reply to. See you tomorrow night… ike

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  23. Off topic but ….
    Cam Johnson has committed to North Carolina, his father confirmed. Still looking to appeal for him to be immediately eligible.

    Again, I have no issue with Cam, but just the thought that UNC will win its appeal just because it’s UNC makes me sick.

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  24. wbb – I’m guessing an agreement is expected. Jay Bilas put another tweet out today too, telling me that Cam/father/Roy reached out again for help putting pressure on Pitt. The K-State situation didn’t help Pitt either.

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  25. Never mind. Cam has stated he’s willing to go the legal route if necessary. One thing to note is that it’s school policy, not NCAA or ACC policy. He probably has a case.

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  26. I wasn’t wearing was I Reed? If I did I apologize but I try and be respectful when I correct you on all the things you’re wrong with.

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  27. Hearing Lyke is the main person behind blocking Cam. Good to hear she won’t take crap from a Blue Blood because we know Roy would do the same if the script was flipped.

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  28. 5-star Micah Parsons decommitted from PSU a couple months ago. A PSU fan site tweeted him, asking him how many retweets will it take for him to re-commit. He replied 50k.

    Thus, if the fan site gets 50k retweets, he will be playing against Pitt at Heinz Field next year.

    So much for all the hard work and traveling that coaches do in trying to reel int blue-chips

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  29. Craig Meyer‏Verified account @CraigMeyerPG 41m41 minutes ago
    In a statement, Cam Johnson said the NCAA informed him on June 2 that Pitt’s internal ruling on his case does not apply to grad transfers.

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    1. According to 247 I only counted one 4 star a safety/LB I forget which. That is not the type of class this blog would be happy with. It would probably be Narduzzi’s lowest ranked class yet, But they appear to be solid recruits, assuming thats how the class will end up. Either way, there are few 4 star recruits beating down the door to come to Pitt at this time.

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  30. Shayne Hale, Cam Sadler, Jon Baldwin (yes, a first-round pick, on ability only), Pat Bostick, Lucas Nix, Dan Martha, etc.
    Four and five stars who never lived up to their rankings.
    While I, too, want the best talent, I was not the same at 22 that I was at 18.

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  31. Pittband – Sherrill was never, repeat never, sanctioned by the NCAA at any school. The only sanctions Pitt had were due to the Golden Panthers. Wandstadt was a traitor to Pitt when he called recruits and told them not to come to Pitt. When will you Wanny people ever get over the stars in your eyes, girlish adoration for that classless lug.
    Reed what is your solution cheat or compete?

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  32. Here is an interesting article on a few 4 star players from the B1G Joke Conference compliments of The NY Times –

    Character matters whether a 4, 5 or 3 star recruit.

    HTP!

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  33. 1/3 of the 1st round of the NFL draft was 3 stars or less. Pitt’s doing fine. Eventually Pitt will have to start getting 4 stars to consistently stay at the top, but they can get there with the current types of kids they are recruiting … It just wouldn’t be a lasting approach. There’d be peak and valley seasons. So, yes, Pitt will need better recruiting, eventually, to stay at the top but, to get there, this is the right approach.

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  34. OK, I had responded to a prior thread but perhaps too late for many to actually read. I was struck by the negative tone of so many of the responses. So I am going to try to paint a more optimistic picture of Narduzzi’s recruiting. I am going to “cherry pick” recruiting data moving back and forth from 24/7’s own data and their composite data. Here is the anecdotal analysis. I pick a year and a position and I list IN ORDER what ACC school scored the recruit from 1 to n. Since I only care about the current regime, I looked at many positions in 2016 and 2017. Here we go:

    2016 QB – FSU, Pitt

    2016 DT – Clem, FSU, FSU, Pitt, Clem, Pitt, WF, NC, Louis, GT. Pitt

    2016 CB – FSU, FSU, Clem, Pitt, FSU, NC, NC, Miami, Duke, Pitt

    2016 ATH – Pitt, Duke, VT, WF, Pitt, VT, NC State, Duke, Pitt

    2016 S – Duke, Clem, Pitt, Miami, Miami, Louis, NC State, Louis, GT, Pitt

    2017 QB – Clem, Pitt

    2017 TE – Pitt

    2017 RB – FSU, FSU, Clem, Louis, Pitt, Pitt

    It is clear that FSU and Clemson are formidable (though not overwhelming so). But then as someone pointed out, they are in the other division and the idea is to get to the ACC championship game and let the chips fall where they may.

    The crucial playmaker is the QB and 24/7 LOVES MacViittie and Pickett. If they are right, Pitt is going to be a force in the ACC for years to come.

    I didn’t even bother to look at WR. I knew it would be a disaster for Pitt. Yet hard evidence tells us this is about the hardest position to get a handle on in high school. Look at Jester Weah – he is projected as the 8th best 2018 pro prospect by at least one service and Henderson is similarly ranked amongst 2019 receiver prospects.

    One poster in a prior thread noted how Ohio State, LSU, Alabama, USC and some other schools swept up a huge proportion of the four star studs. Thus most schools can be highly competitive with three star prospects with a few four star players thrown in. I think that is were Pitt is at the moment. Also, time will tell but I think Narduzzi may have a good eye for talent. My impression is he got real steals last year in Pickett, Smith, Mathis and Pinnock.

    Finally, one last thing. I have read some of these threads and the intense bashing of tight end Reeves and his weight. I checked again and noted he made SECOND TEAM ALL OHIO in BASKETBALL in the winter/spring. Yes, he is a mountain of a man but you do not make an all state in your secondary sport unless you are truly a stud…. Also note that Kyle Nunn made second team all Ohio in Basketball and you have some real athletes joining the team…..

    I think Narduzzi is doing quite well given where Pitt was a few years back. He recognizes that improvement is possible and necessary so he brought in Partridge. This year they have a credible chance of recruiting nearly every good player in the WPIAL except for the QB from Pine Richland. So he is setting up a system of achieving a base of top WPIAL players while supplementing from new recruiting areas like Florida.

    What’s not to be excited about?

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  35. Reed our roster full of 3 star player beat the national champs and a 10 win big 10 squad last year and was about 3 plays away from a 10 win season. If outhouse / jesus.h.chryst had recruited two 5.5 corners instead of 5.3 corners we’d have won the ACC championship.

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  36. 4 and 5 stars will be coming when the community surrounding this team does their job and starts putting 70,000 asses in seats at Heinz… it’s the ” Saturday Night Lights ” affect… these millennials want some ATMOSPHERE…they want to be STARS in the moment and 30k just doesn’t cut it on a Thursday night… finger needs to be pointed at us … unfortunately Nordy and Stevo did their best to alienate the fan base… what can we do to fill those seats? Wife and I will go to 3 away games and 1-2 home games .. also get tickets for family members for home games.. it’s up to us… Creaye a rockin atmosphere and they shall come!!!

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    1. No one wants to go to Heinz to watch a sieve of a Defense in a no identity rental stadium. It is more than winning. Winning and a campus stadium.They don’t care look at the Basketball Coach.

      Like

  37. Is it hard to understand the problem when PITT beats the eventual national champions at their “Death Valley” home for their only loss last year, then a paltry 30,000 fans show up next game? It ain’t Narduzzi’s recruiting we need to worry about guys.

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  38. Reed, I’m surprised that I may the first to say it, but we get it….you’re dissatisfied with the recruiting. Not sure what benefit it does to keep beating that horse right in the middle of prime commitment season, but maybe that’s just me.

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  39. Look at the trajectory. I like the recruiting tactics being employed. The overall strategy is much better than Chrysts. I’m not really concerned with recruiting. I’m concerned with coaching (on D-side). I’m concerned we’re overly reliant on transfer QB’s. I’m concerned with our AD’s vision and leadership (Tressel where art thou). I’m concerned with 40k empty yellow seats in a off campus pro stadium. I’m concerned that Vegas puts Pedo State as 19 point favorites. There are far more concerning things than recruiting at this point particularly when the strategy and tactics are sound. Another topic please.

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    1. I think Recruiting stinks. You guys can praise 3 stars all day. 3 stars don’t win ACC’s or even 9/10 win seasons. 3 stars lose to bums like Navy and Northwestern.

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  40. @ Pitt Engineer. That was my post that actually showed the number of 4 and 5 star players that go to the top 10-15 recruiting classes each year. The numbers are staggering. There are so few 4 and 5 star players left yet some expectations on here are that we should get more! We aren’t a blue blood program now. We were. Now, we are not. Go look at the research on the numbers of available recruits after the top 10 or 15 teams each year and you will change your thoughts on how we are doing!!

    Since the pool of 4 and 5 star players is mostly spoken for, concentration should next be on high 3 stars. According to Rivals, which is the premise of the article, the highest 3 star rates at a 5.7. Of Pitt’s 7 commitments this year, 3 are rated as 5.7s. That is solid.

    Please don’t start conflating the 24/7, scout rankings, with those of Rivals. The premise was on Rival’s and the information that I got was from Rivals only. I didn’t mix or match to make my argument stronger. If we pull in 10 5.7’s and above in a recruiting class, you will see a major advancement. I left the list at home for the last 6 years. Many are collecting NFL paychecks. A few examples of 5.7’s are James Conner, Laf Pitts, Scott Orndoff, and Aaron Donald.

    4 out of 21 @ 5.7 or better in 2011 3 FL
    7 out of 16 @ 5.7 or better in 2012 (5 Transferred or got kicked out) Davis twins, Russ Shell. 0 FL
    6 out of 27 @ 5.7 or better in 2013 0 FL
    4 out of 23 @ 5.7 or better in 2014 1 FL
    6 out of 15 @ 5.7 or better in 2015 1 FL
    7 out of 24 @ 5.7 or better in 2016 4 FL
    6 out of 24 @ 5.7 or better in 2017 7 FL
    3 out of 7 @ 5.7 or better in 2018

    So why are people excited? It’s not just that we have strong consistent numbers of 5.7’s or better, but look where we are getting talent. Florida recruits are always nice, ask Louisville. So is a FL 3 star as good as a PA 4 star? That is still to be determined.

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  41. I think many 3 stars from FL are better than the 4 stars being mined in PA, NJ, OH and MD. Go south. They are better coached and more prepared. Plus the swamp water does wonders to one’s speed and strength.

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  42. A high 3 star avg will win you championships. Coach them up just a bit and you’re at 4 stars. These are high 3 stars being recruited by other P 5 schools and not MAC. I have faith in the Dog. Recruits – you want a chance to start, to play and learn and improve, to be seen on TV, to play for titles, to rub elbows with pros, to have a good shot at pros, to play in the top conference, the top city, the top school, to get a great education, to be treated with respect, and to knock off Pedo State, your choice is easy. Pitt is It! H2P!

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  43. Off topic, but relevant. Several weeks back, I got toasted for suggesting that Pitt just let Cam Johnson transfer wherever he wanted. Now, the rest of the story is coming out that PITT athletics is the issue. Not the ACC and not the NCAA as I indicated. This is another black eye for Pitt as Jay Bilas is having a field day with this. Bad at Pitt and double bad at the Pitt AD for not knowing better and standing up. There are times to stand up and times to sit down. Stay seated and raise money when all is going well. Stand up when needed. We are teaching leaders to “lean in” on issues when needed and stay neutral when something falls outside their scope. You don’t lean in on everything, just the important things.

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    1. screw Jay Bilas … he like’s everyone else at ESPN, supports the big money-makers

      Fact is that there were about 200 transfers (graduate and otherwise) … only Cam transferred within conference. But this is not about Cam as much it’s about UNC … we’re UNC, we can bypass any request, even from a school in our own conference.

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  44. We can complain about attendance all year long. If we can’t get our own students to attend regularly and stay for the whole game, what makes you think we can suddenly interest the citizens of Pgh to do it? We need to start with the students first. We need to develop avid, devoted students who will become avid, devoted graduates who show up on game day and donate generously to the school.

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  45. Huff

    Total BS, Cam is being a spoiled brat. Look at wwb’s numbers.

    Doesn’t matter if it is NCAA, ACC or the school policy. He knew the policy and is sticking it to Pitt.

    Typical entitled attitude.

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    1. especially when you think he has schools like Kentucky, Arizona, UCLA and many others courting him … there were several attractive opportunities available

      AS I continue to say …. ALL conferences have bylaws that dissuade transfers within conference by enacting a 2-year sitting out period. This serves a purpose

      Like

  46. Here is how Nard has to recruit (really the only option we have). We get 3 star guys with heart and coach and develop them. Reed posted an article sometime ago that shows there is a few perennial Top 25 programs that succeed with this same model (MSU and Wisconsin if I recall).

    Additionally, if the program isn’t willing to take guys with character issues (like Wanny was which ultimately got him fired) the number of 4 and 5 star guys is even more limited. Its kinda like the crazy hot matrix for women (the hotter they are the crazier they are).

    You can’t pull out all the stops if you want to run a 100% squeaky clean program.

    There is just as many NFL ALL-PROs that were 3 stars or less than ones that were 5 starts.

    And another thing (A few WPIAL and recruiting rules):

    If your name ends in a vowel or you play high school ball for a catholic school and ND offers you go to ND. (i.e. Pitt is a great fall back plan).

    If PSU or another equivalent football school offers and you have two parents that care you go to one of these schools unless your parents have ties to PITT or you want to stay home. This one makes me sick but I feel its pretty accurate and its especially true of the recruits from lower economic status.

    For the ones that don’t have much guidance or have ties to Pitt and happen to be a 4 or 5 star they stay home.

    I am Hopefully in NardDog’s and his staffs ability to develop and maximize talent.

    Hopeful but Realistic

    Win big and then we can start pulling more and more top level talent.

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  47. Who cares he graduated. I side with the player. This is America and free to go and do what he wants. Pitt shouldnt of hired a disaster. Don’t hire this turd and he is still at Pitt. This is on Pitt. Blame a 21 year old ves the AD and BOT and idiots who hired a 2M never been furniture salesman

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    1. Yep no coaching up at PITT at all?? PITT beat Clemson at their home a with these lousy recruits they have. Why must people want to have it both ways?

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      1. The same defense was embarrassing against UNC, Miami, Syracuse, VT, etc. It also ranked in last 10% of D1 Programs Ike.

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  48. Johnson received a 4 year degree and the privilege to play basketball for a 4 year commitment. He still owes PITT one year but PITT said they will waive that if he just play in the ACC. That’s not unreasonable.

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    1. This comment is edited:

      Johnson received a 4 year degree and the privilege to play basketball for a 4 year commitment. He still owes PITT one year but PITT said they will waive that if he just doesn’t play in the ACC. That’s not unreasonable.

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  49. Upitt

    Totally agree. If the coaches don’t start developing the players on defense soon we are in for more of the same.

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  50. UPitt, you are so negative, maybe YOU should move to Washington County.. Or up the road to farm country. Your posts and ideas are one big profanity! I think Cam’s father might have had something to do with the NC choice. Pitt should hold its ground on principle. There are hundreds of D1 schools to choose from. Would Cam be unhappy at all of them (outside of the ACC)?

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    1. Mr. Lyke – Sorry I don’t work for the Athletic Department and everything is puppies and rainbows. Tell your wife to fire Stallings.

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  51. Better yet, why doesn’t Cam just stay at Pitt and honor his original commitment? Just because he CAN transfer doesn’t mean he SHOULD transfer. I didn’t hear any talk that Pitt didn’t offer the graduate school major he was looking for, which would be a rational reason for leaving. Whatever happened to loyalty?

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    1. Because Kevin Stallings is a digusting never won anything person who was owned in a weak SEC. No one wants to play for that cancer. That is why he is leaving and the program is a joke. Blame the kid not the 2M a year garbage coach. Typical Yinzer mentality. Pitt is wrong and they are clueless if they think anyone will play for this turd.

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  52. I say this with a smile on my face but when someone is constantly as negative as you are Upitt, you lose a little bite in your bark.

    Now enough of this Upitt. I believe you’re penciled in for the round-table this evening. The world can hardly wait.

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  53. Talking about acres in Washington County, in 20 years kids will not be going to classes in college by physically being there. But they will be in classes through virtual reality. Everything about class participation and instruction will be virtual through technology. We will have lots of room to build a new big OCS but then again build it small because you will be at the game virtually. Your virtual game ticket will not be cheap. Money is important.

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  54. @Upittbaseball lol that’s funny it’s just too far away! — When Pitt really needs to grow they are gonna have to obviously start buying some surrounding property. But I am not a fan of how you’re just ignoring so much of Pitt — Benedum Hall, Posvar Hall, Hillman Library.

    There are just these THINGS…..called “City Schools” Space is at a Premium and all, but they don’t just go 30 miles out into open fields and just create a brand new school If that’s the view — then why not turn Pitt Johnstown into ….. Pitt ! Already logistics there and just build *”Penn State 2.0** and build your perfect, dream, On Campus Stadium out there in the country.

    I love it I know you’re being Fun and just Joshin’.

    For an on-campus stadium the closest thing, Period would be to somehow, someway get Schenley Park Land for it. Maybe a high-enough price could be right, but it would still be no-parking. No other way.

    Unless a Meteor hits South Oakland (every single resident is out of the blast zone, of course, not one soul is injured lol), destroys every single property and creates a crater just big enough for a 50,000 person stadium to be built with parking….then the property owners might be willing all just sell out to Pitt for a decent price instead of bothering to rebuild too daunting…..

    Heinz is seriously fine for those who hate Big Bird / Lemons / Heinz Yellow Mustard so much maybe Pitt Athletic Department can just print out some Pitt Script tarps and put ’em up in the upper decks or something, it’s fine.

    But I do admit, Pitt will never have the success without an on-campus, exclusive stadium, with the likes of (let’s stick to some Power 5 of course) Cal Berkeley / Ilinois / Rutgers / Maryland / Syracuse / Boston College / Virginia / Arizona / Arizona State / North Carolina State / oh wait I’m being sarcastic.

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  55. Oh gosh frankie md, you’re right. Now that provocative thinking. The Oakland campus will open up quite a bit.

    A long time ago on a message board someone posted an idea of where to put an on campus stadium? Atop the Cathedral of Learning. It was a joke but with virtual viewing?? Who knows? 🙂

    It’s as plausible as moving an entire university from one county to another.

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  56. If Pitt was a projected top tournament team next year and Cam was a star player, not ONE person on this blog would support this transfer. You all would say, block him from UNC.

    Because they suck and you hate the coach doesn’t change the situation.

    Funny, I read that he thinks he is going to replace one of their players that left early for the NBA. Wow, he thinks highly of himself. He is in for a shock.

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  57. The position of goal posts are rearranged on this blog quite a bit to suit their, dare I say it? Agenda’s. (No not you Reed)

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  58. In all seriosness — No one seems to compare Pitt Football to the other program which most closely resembles what it could become —- The Stanford Cardinal Football Program.

    They take recruiting High Character kids to a different level, but David Shaw has just kept at-it for these lasts 6 years and created a great program.

    They have a stadium right on-campus and no one ever goes too, but they have the right idea and just don’t sweat it, and keep pounding away.

    How about Mark Richt at Miami? Miami has no money. Alum wise they get no more donations and such than Pitt. They get even less fans to games, and their stadium is 25 freagin’ miles from Campus!

    But they decided to pony-up and pay Richt 4 mil a year and pay his assistants well — and Richt was recruiting Insanely well, #1 class right now, and will have them competing for Championships soon.

    Miami is exactly like Pitt in terms of Stadium + fan support + income except worse, with the benefit of course though of having so much talent right there — and Stanford should also serve a huge part in the Blueprints of what Pitt Football should be, and further become.

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    1. DK – you didn’t read my comment from yesterday at June 6 at 12:29pm.. It was a link to a site that lists $$$ by conference/team. Miami had $85M in revenue. PITT $76M. With $9 million more in revenue, PITT could increase hcPN to $4M, double assistants coaches salaries & still have more than a few millions left.

      BTW, Stanford has $112 in total revenues. But you are right in emulating the Stanford as a program doing it right.

      It’s amazing what $$$ can do.

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    2. Stanford has absolutely loaded alums who donate so that they can pay top assistants. And Stanford recruits nationally. Pitt isnt going to land a 4 star in California that has every Pac 12 school offering him. Stanford is able to do this, not to mention their backyard is loaded with talent. Same with Miami. The Hurricanes could get 20 fans to every home game and still get 10-15 four stars every class.

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  59. I forgot one more thing (old one here). Your virtual ticket will be custom made to the seat in the OCS that you pick based on cost. Your friends can get their virtual ticket next to just as you have them now. Friendships will endure. But you might miss tailgating or the bar drinks after the game.

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  60. Good post DK

    About Johnson’s story. It’s more about the cheating dogs known as UNC trying to circumvent a universally used policy. Everyone uses this practice, EVERYONE! Some just like to conveniently wear their short memories to suit their argument and hate.

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  61. Cam absolutely 100% should be able to transfer anywhere he wants. He didn’t receive a 4 year scholarship. He received a 1 year renewable scholarship. He doesn’t owe Pitt anything. There is no NCAA or ACC rule preventing him from moving, only a Pitt specific policy.

    UNC has allowed a football player to transfer in conference to UVA, without penalty, recently and he played in the game against UNC the following season. So there is also precedent with UNC not being hypocritical in defending Cam.

    With regular transfers who haven’t graduated, the rule is fine. Although, I think, there should be exceptions like a coach leaving etc. Situations and circumstances change.

    Despite the narrative that you chose a school, not a coach, that’s just not the case most of the time. You can call Cam selfish all you want. The fact is Pitt is being just as selfish. Cam could have handled it better but Pitt could have as well.

    I’ve had an NDA and non-compete with every job I’ve ever had but that hasn’t prevented me from moving on to competitors. You want to know why? Because I have a right to work and the NDA/non-compete I signed doesn’t hold water in a court of law. It’s just scare tactic by companies to try and limit movement.

    With Cam, he graduated with honors, he was recruited by another coach, he gave the current coach a opportunity for a year and Cam did not like it. Plus, there is most likely only one returning player to next year’s team. This is not the team Cam committed too. That’s the reality of the situation.

    Add in the fact that he feels UNC gives him the best shot at the NBA and it’s a no-brainer he should be allowed to leave. Pitt should be looking out for the best interest of the kid.

    Less relevant but still something to note is that the reality of the situation is that Cam will not be difference maker in Pitt/UNC games this season or the following. It’s not going to affect the competitive balance between the two teams. Had that been the case, I can see argument against the transfer. That’s not reality though. Pitt will not be competitive in the near future.

    If you don’t want grad-transfers, limit the academic year credits kids can take. If they don’t graduate, they can’t transfer under this rule. If a kid has a lot of transferable college credits from High School, that’s the risk you take recruiting him.

    Like

    1. His Coach left and was replaced with trash and he went through 3 AD’s in 3 years. In college sports that is as close to a dumpster fire as possible.

      Agree 100% on non competes.

      Good Post TT

      Like

  62. Cam should not be able to transfer in-conference. That’s been an unwritten rule for grad and non-grad transfers alike for a long, long time in both football and basketball. Sorry I don’t like Stallings, but I agree with him here. Granted the ragtag collection of jucos and freshman we going to trot out next year has not chance of beating UNC, but still, it’s the principle.

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  63. This whole Cam Johnson situation baffles me.

    He is a local kid that got a great opportunity at Pitt. He was superb student from all reports. I think I read that he publicly stated he had no beef with CoachK (LOL as in Kevin S).

    How in the world does Pitt just let him walk?????

    Maybe just maybe he thinks he has a better shot at the pros if he plays a year at NC. However, he is going to play the same teams that he would if he were at Pitt. So I don’t think that makes much sense.

    His spot on Pitt’s roster would be much more secure than at NC where he could end up not even playing.

    Maybe he wants a championship? Well other than getting a ring their really isn’t much else to gain from that.

    Maybe he wants to a get a master degree from NC? Is NC a better school than Pitt?

    At the end of the day the only thing I can say about the situation is as follows:

    I hope CAM is making the best decision he can for himself and his future. Since he has graduated from Pitt the choice is his as it should be.

    In NC I smell a rat.

    Like

    1. He and his Dad can’t say Stalling’s is a disaster because then it would look bad on them. Him leaving is all about Stalling’s and this terrible team and terrible coach. Meanwhile Heather Lyke is happy she just isnt at EMU.

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  64. Pitt has a blanket policy in place for grad transfers that they cannot transfer within conference or play on a team that is on Pitt’s schedule next year. My guess is many, if not most schools has same policy.

    Pitt then concedes that Cam can collect financial aid from UNC next year if he chooses to go there .. and now Cam states that since Pitt conceded that, they must allow him to play also.

    Cam … go screw yourself!

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  65. Cam Johnson came to PITT looking for a good education and play at a high level D-1 school. He got what he wanted… Where was UNC when he was looking as a senior in high school? Scavenger underhanded pricks they are.

    and Upitt. this isn’t about Stallings. It’s a school policy that’s enacted through all colleges.. Lyke is doing her job the way she is supposed to. What do you do?

    Bitch of course.

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    1. Lyke hasn’t done a thing Ike. Oh she gave her word to Rockports she believed in him. I forgot about that. Oh and hired a never before HC in Wrestling after she was turned down by 3 people. She is killing it Ike!

      Like

  66. BTW, big trouble per the Trib for Michigan State football players. 3 players arrested for criminal sexual charges.

    Will the rubber meet the road for Narduzzi sooner than expected?

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  67. it is about stallings. If Ike hates his boss. Guy is jerk of all jerks he should be able to quit and go anywhere. Dixon was allowed. Mormom Pumpkin Head was allowed. Cam actually fulfilled his contract and he is the only one told no. And best part……..He didn’t make millions of dollars.

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  68. He may just have made a big old pile of cash stuffed in a paper poke on his Daddy’s back porch?

    About my former boss or bosses? Hell yeah I was free to go anytime. Only to be questioned about my work history. It wasn’t that easy friend. I had 3 jobs and a pension from each for doing what the rules told me I should do. Retired at the age of 56. Johnson should abide. < keeping with the theme presented at the top of the page of this article.. The Dude Abides.

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  69. Upitt you’re way off base here. There is no comparison between coaches, administrators and student-athletes. This may shock you, but these kids have no rights as far as playing collegiate sports- only what the NCAA, which is the colleges and athletic directors actually, gives them. Coaches and administrators sign contracts that are enforceable in a court of law. They and their institutions can be sued for violation of contracts or by anyone with standing that wants to sue the university as well. Ike is right. Where was UNC when Cam was a high school player? After he develops at Pitt, now UNC wants him. Cam made his choice years ago and he should stick by it..

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  70. Concerning attendance at Heinz. Why not go “all in” with free ways to get people into the upper bowl? You say, OK Pittman4ever like what? Like this:
    a) Family Plan- one member of a family of 4 buys a regular ticket at full price and the other family members are all free.
    b). Season Ticket Spectactular: Buy one season ticket and get 2 for free.
    c). Under 12 free: all kids under 12 get in free with a paying adult (up to 3 kids)..
    There you go, upper bowl filled or close to it. Let’s Go Pitt!!!!!

    Like

  71. Pittman, I agree with you giving away tickets for free to games when PITT absolutely knows the game will not have many butts in the upper decks.

    It would be hard to give tickets away for free that far in advanced though.

    However, I can support your scenario over the thought of moving the entire PITT campus to another county.

    You don’t like the idea of building a virtual on-campus stadium atop the Cathedral Of Learning? Think about that one? You would be atop the Cathedral at a PITT home game while sitting at your home in Houston Texas all the while watching PITT pummel Notre dame for example…or The University of Pittsburgh can just move the whole kit and kubuttal to Washington county. 🙂

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  72. Take Cam, UNC and Pitt out of it. This isn’t about what other schools do. This is an outdated practice that would not be applicable in any other setting.

    If you’re going to hold kids to a document they signed as a senior in High School, let them sign agents to help negotiate the contract. That’s essentially what an LOI is. A contract. Right now it’s not negotiable. I promise if an agent was involved, that would change real quick.

    Why does it matter if a former teammate plays against their old school? In the pro’s it doesn’t matter. Kids pick the school they go to based on where they are when they graduate high school. If the kid has grown as a player, why is he stuck with a decision he made when he was less talented. Or in this case, circumstances outside of his control changed at the school he originally committed to. That would be like me not being allowed to take a job with a better company.

    With traditional transfers, the rule is fine but with someone who graduated school it’s completely different. There is a reason the NCAA stays out of it. It would be, legally, hard to enforce.

    If you’re pissed Cam is playing Pitt and that he’s a traitor, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t be allowed to do it. He can, 100%, be a villain. By taking this approach he’s taken he’s earned that moniker. He still should be able to do it though.

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  73. Pittman4eva and Ike,,I think the idea of giving tickets away for “free” was floated on the blather a couple of years ago and if memory serves me correctly this practice is prohibited,,perhaps Reed could shed some light on the subject, Sure would be a great way to get kids and families into seats.

    Suggest FIREWORKS by Zambelli after the Carolina game…I will be there..been known to set off a few myself in my former licensed pyrotechnician days.

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  74. As far as Cam goes..Let him go and wish him the best…at least that’s how I feel.
    Problem is not with the kid-it’s with management and poor decision making extending over a prolonged period of time.

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  75. I firmly side with Pitt on this one and say if Cam wants to go to UNC then he needs to sit a year. But I’m also so fed up with this whole story/debate that I don’t care what they come up with – I just want it to be over.

    Again though – he knew WELL IN ADVANCE the rules and he chose to fight them and try and rewrite them rather than abide by them. Life isn’t fair. He chose to play at Pitt. He changed his mind part of the way through. He can transfer if he wants according to Pitt’s policy. What is so difficult about that????
    I see the other side of the argument – however, you can play that card on about anything you want. The bottom line is abide by the rules/policy and go about your business. It’s about taking responsibility for your actions and decisions you make…….which clearly isn’t part of our society anymore.

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  76. Free tickets will do very little when people with tickets don’t even show up in the expensive seats.

    You know we have jumped the shark when someone suggests we move the campus so we can have an OCS. If Pitt wanted to expand our campus they should have bought the Hazelwood property and had a lower and upper campus like WVU did years ago. Could have easily built a modern incline down Panther Hollow. Pitt is what it is a City School, which differentiates it from all the Big non-descript campuses.
    It has its own unique character and benefits that college campuses and college towns can’t offer.

    It attracts a different type of student, one reason we don’t have that RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH of of the college bubble. What other school has a Cathedral Of Learning? a Schenley Park, Carnegie Museum, Library, Music Hall or Phipps Conservatory on Campus? Students can party in Oakland, Shadyside, SouthSide, Downtown, Lawrenceville. Students can go to Steeler, Pirates, Penquins games, the Opera, Ballet, Symphony, Rock, Country, Jazz, other contemporary music. You can eat any kind of food you want in the City of Pittsburgh, and find many cultural events.

    Pitt has abundant and highly sought after grad school, Medicine, Law, Business Schools. Joint ventures with CMU and other opportunities for internships with Google and Uber, Banking, health care professions and Manufacturing.

    So let’s move the campus where we can see cows and have opportunities in mining and fracking, and a 40,000 seat OCS. We can go to the Meadows on weekends.

    Like

    1. Let’s stay in a slum and let South oakland represent the college. There are 3 pretty spots on campus GC. 3. I’m suggesting preparing for growth. There is no way Pitt can grow anywhere in Oakland so move. Compnies do it all the time as they outgrow and expand.

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      1. Right UPitt companies do it all the time. That is why we have brownfields all over the midwest and inner city hell holes. Companies also move overseas or at least move their jobs there. Universities have a commitment to their communities, unlike Corporations who only have a commitment to their CEO’s net worth, and their stock price. Oakland is hardly a slum, and Pittsburgh is vibrant healthy city moving in a positive direction. Pitt’s campus gets better every year.

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  77. I get that BigB but there has to be a zillion ways to give tickets away for free with planned reward giveaways.

    If a young person graduates the 6th grade (like Jethro Bodine) you and your family qualify for a free ticket. Except for granny.

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  78. Cam can transfer to any school he wants. The only caveat is that if he transfers to an ACC school, he should have to sit out one season of basketball. If he cares more about playing basketball next year than academics, I’d suggest he consider the D league.

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  79. Re: Cam J. — It costs Pitt around 200k per FB and BB student/athlete per year. So, Pitt spent 600k on CJ. Pitt should then say goodbye and good luck, have a great year at UNC, including doing your best to beat your alma mater. I really don’t think so.

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  80. Those Dokish Recruits look like this:

    QB- Nick Patti 3*
    FB- Jay Symonds 2*
    WR- Probably one from the south
    TE- TJ Banks

    OL- 2 of 3 of

    Jimmy McKenna, 3*

    Chase Brown, Non-Ranked

    TJ Bradley Non-Ranked

    OL- Blake Zubovic 3*
    OL/DL- Jake Kradel 3*
    DT- Devin Danielson 3*
    DT- David Green 3*
    DE- John Morgan 3*
    DE- Noah Palmer 3*
    LB- Wendell Davis 3*
    LB- Brian Asamoah 3*
    LB/S- Kwantel Raines 4*
    LB/S- Marcus Hooker 3*
    CB- Justin Tallandier 3*

    If this holds true we are going backwards in recruiting big time in my opinion. To have even a small class with only a 5% blue chip rate is horrible – and i don’t care where their offers are from.

    I don’t get the unfailing excuse-making for a HC who isn’t recruiting all that well… and to have a class of 3* kids after two years of a vast majority of 3* kids is not progress by any means.

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  81. A potential NBA star who won’t give Pitt a dime being aloowed to play in a game where UNC will beat us by 70.

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  82. Reed can you do me a favor and compare how this proposed recruiting class stacks up to graduation losses and depth chart?

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  83. Anyone care to enlighten me: How, exactly, can Pitt prevent CJ from playing for NC next year? If he is a graduate transfer, then he can go wherever. So what recourse, pricesly, does Pitt have?

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  84. @Voice, @not rocket, @ wwb, @ all, LOL. – Whooooaaa! Cam honoring his commitment? Did Pitt or Jamie Dixon honor the coaching commitment? The employment commitment? Did our AD honor his commitment? You all want it both ways and it just doesn’t wok that way. UPitt and I agree from the athlete perspective. It is not being negative or hateful.

    Let’s not say Cam made a 4 year commitment to Pitt. Nate Peterman would not have been here if he had to stay 4 years at Tennessee. The commitment is to be a athlete-student until you graduate, period.

    Everyone is up in arms because it is a transfer within the ACC. Who cares? Many bashed Cam for his lack of defense, poor shot selection, turnovers, etc. Let’s not say he was groomed to be a leader on the team next year. Any leadership on the Pitt BBall team next year is by default because noone was left. What about all those players that left. We didn’t bash their commitment, rather, we pointed out their weaknesses. Why can’t we call it what it is. Nobody wants to see him come back and score 20 points against Pitt this year.

    Let him go. The difference between Pitt and big time programs is that Pitt doesn’t mind the negative publicity and will take a stance even when they will lose in litigation.

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  85. I’m with the group that says the FB recruiting is not progressing the way it should. They should be talking about more 4 stars they are close to now, and I’m not getting that feeling. At this point in the Chryst/Duzzi reign most positions now have average to above average talent, sufficient to win 8 games. Pitt should be looking for higher end talent at every position, and then winning some recruiting battles for top kids, but I’m not seeing it.

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  86. No Huff, the difference between PITT and unc is that PITT gets the negative publicity and unc gets away with cheating for years with illegal classes and unethical behavior. All the while they are still held in a high regard. WHY?

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  87. Here is a voice of reason…

    Look at Mark Dantonio at MSU, who incidentally had a very similar W-L record over his first two years

    Michigan State Spartans (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
    2007 Michigan State 7–6 3–5 T–7th L Champs Sports
    2008 Michigan State 9–4 6–2 3rd L Capital One 24 24
    2009 Michigan State 6–7 4–4 T–6th L Alamo
    2010 Michigan State 11–2 7–1 T–1st L Capital One 14 14
    2011 Michigan State 11–3 7–1 1st (Legends) W Outback 10 11
    2012 Michigan State 7–6 3–5 4th (Legends) W Buffalo Wild Wings
    2013 Michigan State 13–1 8–0 1st (Legends) W Rose† 3 3
    2014 Michigan State 11–2 7–1 2nd (East) W Cotton† 5 5
    2015 Michigan State 12–2 7–1 1st (East) L Cotton† 6 6
    2016 Michigan State 3–9 1–8 6th (East)

    Now look at his first 4 full recruiting classes

    2007 – three 4*
    2008 – one 4*
    2009 – TEN 4* (okay you have to admit that was a really good year. But even the Wanstache never pulled in ten 4* at Pitt and it’s totally unrealistic to think anybody ever will)
    Total fourteen 4* players

    Narduzzi first 3
    2015 – two 4*
    2016 – five 4*
    2017 – five 4*
    Total twelve 4* players. This is not too far off of Dantonio’s pace. For the record Dantonio signed four 4+1 in 2010 (there was a five star in the mix) but the 4 star quarterback he signed (JOE BOISTURE) never saw the field. So how ’bout them apples?

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    1. LOL I’m just joking People. Good thing his recruiting is weak or MSU would of brought him in to clean house over D’antonio

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  88. off topic: OU has their head coach, Lincoln Riley the OC who by the way has NO head coaching experience. unless I am mistaken.

    Almost all of Nard’s 4* players are late to commit, usually just before LOI day as the top 15 schools fill up their classes.

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  89. The point being that some 4 stars commit to Pitt after they have been squeezed out somewhere else by waiting too long. We still haven’t seen the landscape shift yet, where 4 stars commit to Pitt early. It looks like MSU has been reaching for some players and not paying attention to the intangibles. Three players get the boot, not good publicity in recruiting circles.

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  90. Recruiting is improving. Granted, it’s gradual and not immediate. Once again, Duzz is building a program for sustained success not flash in the pan seasons. There is a clear plan in place. The difference between a 5.5 3 star and 5.8 3 star is couple hundred players. It’s significant. Duzz saw D-Line recruiting as a weakness so he made a switch with that position coach and upgraded recruiting. He’s being pro-active addressing weaknesses.

    Reed – you should care about what Duzz did at MSU. That’s the program Pitt is being modeled after. Once again, Duzz’s recruiting has much better distribution of talent and is not position group focused like Chryst. There are less holes on the Duzz roster than the Chryst roster.

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  91. I want to believe you, Tossing, but after waiting since 1976 for Pitt to reach the top again, I’m a bit skeptical. I thought with Sherrill we would quickly see it again, but the administration wasn’t going to give him the program control, and I think it has continued that way ever since. So they don’t get the benefit of the doubt in my view. I hope I’m wrong this time, but programs like Oklahoma will always have openings that need to be filled, and money talks..

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  92. It’s way too early to determine how effective the current staff’s recruiting is. You can start seriously judging by December , and even then it may be premature.

    IMO, there should be no doubt that Pitt should be really good in 2018, considering all of the youth / potential on this team … even with the possibility of an inexperienced QB

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  93. VoR – With every new coach, it all resets again. With every new coach, patience is required. I can’t control the last 35 years. The reality of building a successful program from where Pitt was starting is what we’re currently seeing.

    Do you want a team that peaks once a decade or a team that can have sustained success? For sustained success, it take time to get systems installed, players in place and culture solidified.

    Progress is being made. A majority of high 2’s/low 3’s has turned into mid 3’s has turned into mid to high 3’s. High 3’s to low 4’s will be coming. I know each class has gotten 4 stars but I’m talking about what the majority of the recruits were.

    There is no benefit of the doubt. It’s just reality. You may not believe that Pitt football will get the support that is required but that is separate issue than Narduzzi recruiting.

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  94. back to back 8 regular season wins and some already think PITT is mired in mediocrity. Stuck there. Back away from the tree boys and take a look at the forest. It’s big and looking more beautiful everyday.

    As far as recruiting goes, PITT is still one year away from seeing what Narduzzi’s recruits can and will do. RS sophomores are not the basis of a good football team. Can we just see instead of diving so deep into our own fears and history and appreciate for at least a moment what has been accomplished in two years?

    As far as this years recruiting class? Same thing, it’s an unfinished class and far too early to criticize it. Looking out the rear-view mirror only gets one stuck in the past without the possibility of seeing what’s ahead and possibly positive future.

    Just like the round-table it’s the negative commenters that are afraid to jump in.. You ever noticed that? It’s the ones that want to complain all things PITT that won’t go on the round-table to express their feelings with the words from their mouths. I don’t get that. and not you Upitt but all the negative posters.

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